Can we win a premiership with this list? Definitely.

Will we?

That's impossible to predict.

If this team is prepared and ooached well, it should become a force in the competition. Whether that equates to premierships we'll just have to wait and see.

"Can we win a premiership with this list? Definitely."

Thats all I want to know however I think some will disagree with your answer (from reading the posts above)

YD..I sense what youre alluding to is will many on the 2013 be part of a possible resurgence and resultant premiership ? Quite possibly yes. But they will be part of a list yet to be finished. I.e the current list wont do it...a improved 2013 ( i.e 2014's ) list, Yes.

YD..I sense what youre alluding to is will many on the 2013 be part of a possible resurgence and resultant premiership ? Quite possibly yes. But they will be part of a list yet to be finished. I.e the current list wont do it...a improved 2013 ( i.e 2014's ) list, Yes.

Yes, I am basically asking do we have a core group of players (15-24) players that can eventually (with additions of draftees and trades etc) take us to a premiership or will the likes of Jones and Sylvia never experience a premiership? Jones and Sylvia being players in their mid 20's (centre of the team).

No, not yet. We need at least two more top draft picks and a couple of experienced players of the likes of Brown, Goodes etc. Not suggesting these two, just players of similar ability but younger. As I have said before, IMO, we have recruited well this year and a repeat performance would stand us in good stead for a premiership. I think Gawn could be the key. If he can keep fit he will improve our ruck strength immeasurably and he does have more versatility around the ground than Jamar. I would love to see Mark do more around the ground even though he is a workhorse in the ruck. Jesse Hogan too will be a key figure in our climb up the ladder next year. Only time will tell with these predictions.

Given that Hogan is not on the list yet I would say we are close to having the core we need and then of course there will be the yearly changes that are a part of football.

Hogan plus another good first rounder added to the list next year along with ongoing development and I would think the core is there.

I would have thought that *this* list was the 2013 list. In 2014 the list will be different. So no, I do not believe this list can win a premiership.

Yes good point, should have said 'with the current core group of players'

With the current list i don't believe we can and it breaks my heart to say it. Mark Neeld keeps repeating the phase "continued success for the football club". think of the teams of the past that have had continued success:

Brisbane Lions & Geelong;

What is the key to their success? Midfield

Brisbane; Voss, Black, Akermanis, lappin (3 brownlow medallists)

Geelong; Ablett, Ling, Bartel, Selwood (2 brownlows)

Until we developed or recruit some superstar midfielders we're in all sorts. We need Viney and Toumpas to develop over the next 2-3 years and then draft another all out star (or bring Wines in).

GWS have more midfielders then you can throw a puma king at, thats my major concern. Lets hope that they have recruited like the Melbourne demons of years ago!!!!!

Edit: Spelling

With the current list i don't believe we can and it breaks my heart to say it. Mark Neeld keeps repeating the phase "continued success for the football club". think of the teams of the past that have had continued success:

Brisbane Lions & Geelong;

What is the key to their success? Midfield

Brisbane; Voss, Black, Akermanis, lappin (3 brownlow medallists)

Geelong; Ablett, Ling, Bartel, Selwood (2 brownlows)

Until we developed or recruit some superstar midfielders we're in all sorts. We need Viney and Toumpas to develop over the next 2-3 years and then draft another all out star (or bring Wines in).

GWS have more midfielders then you can throw a puma king at, thats my major concern. Lets hope that they have recruited like the Melbourne demons of years ago!!!!!

Edit: Spelling

Yes but if we are going to win a premiership with this curent core group of players we need a star aged (22-26) to lead us. Drafting a star say next year would help the current group little. I think we should target a star or very good mifielder aged (23-26) and a possible star aged 20ish - (this is where gold coast and GWS come in handy)

Let's just say that we don't win a flag until at say ... 2016/2017. Given that most top clubs turn over between 4 - 8 players in any given year then our 'premiership list' will look a lot different to our current list.

The other question is who will be on our list in 2016/2017 that are on our current list. These existing players still on our list in that 'Premiership window' should all be either good - excellent players. A Premiership team generally has 8 - 10 'very good' or 'A' grade players. Or at least some of that Premiership team's players have had very good or 'A' grade years.

The truth is that nearly all our potential very good - 'A' graders will need to end up being so. We'll also need to import 4 - 6 others who have genuine ability. (Hogan could be counted as one of these)

Free agency can help or hinder us. We need to be a far more attractive proposition to a would be 'free agent'. Money talks of course, but it would be foolish to put all our eggs in one basket. We talked about it last year, but we really need to pick up some quality midfielders out of all the free agents. One per year for the next 3 - 4 years might be needed if we're going to win a flag anytime soon. Otherwise, we may only improve to a point where we are a finals contender only.

Normally don't like crying over spilt milk, but would have been rapt if we'd made a big play for Stevie J and managed to land him. Hell, he could have doubled up as our kicking and skills coach as well !!!

Yes but if we are going to win a premiership with this curent core group of players we need a star aged (22-26) to lead us. Drafting a star say next year would help the current group little. I think we should target a star or very good mifielder aged (23-26) and a possible star aged 20ish - (this is where gold coast and GWS come in handy)

I have my fingers and toes crossed that this is the case!, I don't believe that the GCFC are going to challenge, they have drafted for potential (like we used to). GWS have gone for hard at it/ run all day players. If we can recruit some of Sheedy's boys it will help us immensely. With 20+ first round picks not all of them will be able to be paid top dollar, thats when we will hopefully strike before the other clubs. We need to improve tho as Josh Caddy did not want a bar of the MFC, he would of been handy!

Unsurprisingly, I'm in the no camp.

We lack the depth and class required, and the history of development has been previously so poor that those who have been with the club over the journey can't possibly cut the mustard.

Our skills have been woeful for years, and thus far show little signs of improvement under the current regime.

One big difference though has been our fitness levels, which seem to have improved tenfold.

There are heaps of reasons why we rarely play 4 good quarters of footy including this last game against St Kilda. Talking up a list for future flags is one thing, talking up a list who cannot play 4 qters of good hard footy at the highest level is another.

THere is no excuses anymore for fade outs in games........I don't want to hear Neeld mention this again as to where they are as a list.

It's AFL at the elite level, they train to play 120 minutes. That's what I want to see in 2013.

We need everyone to step right up as well as an elite midfielder, small back and crumbling forward. And Watts to start hitting packs like his life depended on it

A spine of

McDonald

Frawley

Jones

Hogan

Clark

Is as good as it gets only if they all keep improving and stay fit

We ended 2012 with a list that was perhaps the worst in the competition

GWS and GCS have basically a bunch of kids.

This list could only beat one team above us in 2012.

The FD thought it was seriously lacking and changed over 14 players.

So far in 2013 our senior team has beaten no one.

I would think that was the start and another 8 - 10 will go at the end of 2013.

So the answer for me is NO.

We are a long way off playing finals let alone winning flags

As some one said earlier after five years of a rebuild we are still at year 1

Such questions bring out the deluded.

There is no way.

Seven years minimum.

A few of this group may still be around. eg. Hogan and I would think a new coaching era.

Ridicule me if you like but we are so far off the mark its futile speculating on this group at this stage.

See if you all say the same after this weeks game against the cellar dwellers

God I hope so.

I look ahead towards the inclusion of Hogan (with a year at Casey under his belt), another couple of quality midfield first rounders, maybe a good trade or two and a surprise late pick. Then I think of our list without Davey (as good as he has been during his career), without a couple of others who perhaps fail to rise. With 1 or 2 more Misso preseasons I can honestly see us challenging for top 4 from 2015. From there it is possible.

This is such a bad question and I will tell you why (grateful I'm sure...); we have the necessary talent at the club to be a strong team in a few years - but how they develop and whether we can surround them with the right pieces at the right time will determine how good we will be.

So no-one can tell you but we can all reel off names with enormous talent.

Getting them to be what they should be is the unknowable at this stage...

We need at least 3 more years of Free Agency before we can even imagine a flag.

But the list has evolved.

We were so bad. Now we are just bad.

We ended 2012 with a list that was perhaps the worst in the competition

GWS and GCS have basically a bunch of kids.

This list could only beat one team above us in 2012.

The FD thought it was seriously lacking and changed over 14 players.

So far in 2013 our senior team has beaten no one.

I would think that was the start and another 8 - 10 will go at the end of 2013.

So the answer for me is NO.

We are a long way off playing finals let alone winning flags

As some one said earlier after five years of a rebuild we are still at year 1

...and that's a sad tale but true 'old'. 4 years wasted, 1 year sorting out the mess and this year ground zero. The only positive is the ones who are still around from last year have a decent year of training under the belt, maybe slightly ahead of ground zero.

We are on the right track.

With guys like Viney,Toumpas ,Hogan , Trengove,Grimes,Dawes ,Howe,Jones,mcDonald,Watts, we have a god base to work with.

Over the next couple of years we should add some more good mids to our list and we will be stronger.

This is such a bad question and I will tell you why (grateful I'm sure...); we have the necessary talent at the club to be a strong team in a few years - but how they develop and whether we can surround them with the right pieces at the right time will determine how good we will be.

So no-one can tell you but we can all reel off names with enormous talent.

Getting them to be what they should be is the unknowable at this stage...

I wasn't really asking whether we will be a premiership side but rather was looking for opinions on whether we had the potential (considering we develop our list well and embed a winning culture)

I wasn't really asking whether we will be a premiership side but rather was looking for opinions on whether we had the potential (considering we develop our list well and embed a winning culture)

I reckon (in theory) any team could win a flag within 5 years. Before free agency, this probably wasn't possible. In theory, you could bring two 'very good' to 'A' grade free agents into a club every year for 4 or 5 years (assuming their salary's weren't too exorbitant) and be ready for a real tilt at the flag in 4 or 5 years time. Or you can draft, trade and continue to 'develop'. Or do both well and you end up with a great list. Free agency allows you to 'fast track' your list.

We didn't land any 'big fish' free agents last year (Dawes was traded for) and there might be a few reasons for that but that doesn't mean we can't land a couple of good, experienced players at years end. In my opinion, we need to bring in some decent 'ready to go' talent. We might get to 10 wins this year but to compete with the best sides we will need some real talent.

Free agents cost you nothing more than their actual salary. Not sure why it's not high on the agenda for most Demon fans. Seems like a no-brainer to me. We need talent - let's go out and get 'em. We should be in ears of the agents of these players - now. Always gotta be looking ahead.

You've got to spend the 9.14 million anyway - may as well pay good players. With no offence to anyone in particular on our list, I reckon most of us would let a couple of players go for 2 very good experienced midfielders.

... Stars galore in free agency list

We won't win a premiership this season, so the answer is no. At the end of the season we have to make a minimum of 3 changes so it will be a different list

Yes.... in a way. The list we now have will help us improve somewhat, for arguments sake let's say somewhere between 9th-11th. After that two things happen: 1) The players we currently have increase in value and we are able to attract better trade possibilities. 2) Elite players start to think about joining us seeing we're on the improve and there's a decent chance of finals. From there things start to snowball, the playing list improves every year as we recruit better and better and young players come on, and if we have the right coaching staff we are a good chance to have a crack. (Of course this process is a gradual one over at least 2-3 years).