The reason the MFC has been down the bottom for the last 6 years comes down to coaches who think that the rebuild of a club is getting a lot of kids and giving them games. Dean Bailey believed in this but I think he also believed in Santa and the tooth fairy.

funny....at leasr Santa and the Tooth fairy come through lol

Realistic expectations is what you get when you get on board the "Reality Bus"

I would realistically expect 10 wins. Neeld would want the same to ensure the Reality Bus doesn't run out of juice in 2014.

Jnr it pays to remember we we are coming from.

In case the changes of the off season has affected your memory.

We had 1 genuine win last season and were uncompetitive in 14 games, most games were over at quarter time.

It depends how long your memory is.

In 2010 and 2011 Bailey had a winning ratio of about 35 to 40% against non expansion teams. Neeld has a winning ratio of about 6% against non expansion teams and this year has a better list, more resources and hopefully this year a more settled club. Let's call last year a "bedding in" period and a terrible environment not of his making to operate in but now he has to perform.

If he can't match Bailey's 2010 and 2011 record against non expansion teams, the period where Bailey wasn't "experimenting", I'd consider it a fail.

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by Fan

I'm not sure who introduced the concept a week or so ago of Floors and Ceilings. It may have been in discussion of Pick 4.

Anyway we now have more players who don't have very high possible ceilings I.e. Morton and Gysberts, but come in with a higher floor I.e. Rodan and Pederson. Good ordinary footballers.

This indicates to me that while Neeld is making sure there are no more 186's he can't guarantee we will improve as rapidly as North, GCS and GWS.

Taking this as an indication, I think 7 wins including at least one Victorian scalp is a pass mark for me.

I'm not happy with it, but push comes to shove, I will take hard fought losses and fewer wins for the next year at least rather than the Blue-sky mining we were living with.

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by Franky_31

It depends how long your memory is.

In 2010 and 2011 Bailey had a winning ratio of about 35 to 40% against non expansion teams. Neeld has a winning ratio of about 6% against non expansion teams and this year has a better list, more resources and hopefully this year a more settled club. Let's call last year a "bedding in" period and a terrible environment not of his making to operate in but now he has to perform.

If he can't match Bailey's 2010 and 2011 record against non expansion teams, the period where Bailey wasn't "experimenting", I'd consider it a fail.

Front running game style not suited to finals.

It doesn't matter what your winning percentage is in H and A if you are playing an antiquated game style with weak bodies which is easily countered.

We failed MISERABLY against the better drilled opponents and when put under any physical pressure. And yes we failed miserably in 2012 as well.

We shall see what 2013 brings. I agree that we need to see some results, I expect that we will.

For me it will be as much about the vibe as the win/loss ratio. Ie the ability to play four quarters, the upward incline of our key young blokes, the evenness of the team performance and the ability to compete against the top teams. The emergence of a star or two especially in the midfield would be handy too.

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by dandeeman

Okay it is the Off season and Christmas is coming.

Melbourne has already been given a Christmas Present with the easiest Draw on paper of all the Clubs

Looking at who we play and where we play. If it was anyone else but us Id say a Top four Finish wouldnt be out of the question

However being a Demon Supporter and seeing as Christmas is just Around the Corner Ive asked Santa for a Top 6 Finish B)

Though I have advised him I would settle for a top 8 finish as well

Realistically though as Long as we dont get any Thrashings and we Beat the teams we should , Ill be Happy !

Those Teams dont Include Hawthorn, Westcoast , Swans or Geelong , the others on any given Day Melbourne can beat .

I also asked Santa to make sure that any Given Day happened all the time next year especially when the Dees are playing

1995 we just missed finals, 1996 & 1997 were horrible years think we won the spoon in 1997 then made prelim in 1998. We also had a poor finish in 1999 then made the GF the next year.

We also boomeranged from a poor finish in 1993 (10th? albeit with a 50% winning record) to a prelim in 1994 and then of course there were the 2001-2006 yo-yo years under Daniher although admittedly we didn't rise to top 4 during those years.

And of course we went from a poor finish in 1953 to GF the next year but that's all ancient history now.

So as I suspected we have never done 6 miserable years to finals in one season!

look I am not wishing us to be poor, I just see us starting from such a low base and I don't believe in miracles.

After six very poor years and the way our listed ended 2012 it is a long way back.

We were uncompetitive for the majority of 2012

IMO 3 - 4 spots up the ladder per year is what we are facing.

We have made a number of changes and with the exception of Dawes the players coming in are:

- Kids who will take a couple of years

- guys that are viewed by the Football world as almost past it

- players who did not make it the first time around and have looked good at lower levels and are on their second chance.

With luck we will have picked up experience and a couple of diamonds out of the rough.

Nothing that in my opinion is going to propel us up the ladder at a fast rate.

Slow and steady in 2013 with more list changes at the end of 2013 that hopefully improve our list that was reduced to 8 - 10 AFL standard players over a five year period.

I am prepared for it taking 3 years to get to 7 -8 position.

IMO any thing else is wishful thinking.

So as I suspected we have never done 6 miserable years to finals in one season!

look I am not wishing us to be poor, I just see us starting from such a low base and I don't believe in miracles.

After six very poor years and the way our listed ended 2012 it is a long way back.

We were uncompetitive for the majority of 2012

IMO 3 - 4 spots up the ladder per year is what we are facing.

We have made a number of changes and with the exception of Dawes the players coming in are:

- Kids who will take a couple of years

- guys that are viewed by the Football world as almost past it

- players who did not make it the first time around and have looked good at lower levels and are on their second chance.

With luck we will have picked up experience and a couple of diamonds out of the rough.

Nothing that in my opinion is going to propel us up the ladder at a fast rate.

Slow and steady in 2013 with more list changes at the end of 2013 that hopefully improve our list that was reduced to 8 - 10 AFL standard players over a five year period.

I am prepared for it taking 3 years to get to 7 -8 position.

IMO any thing else is wishful thinking.

I dont think 1977 to 1986 was anything but miserable or in my case as a Dees fan 1980 to 1986, they were hard times

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by Pennant St Dee

I dont think 1977 to 1986 was anything but miserable or in my case as a Dees fan 1980 to 1986, they were hard times

Richmond and Dees supporters must be the most patient in the AFL.

Year after year of crap and we keep coming back for more PSD

Certainly not signs of sanity

Richmond and Dees supporters must be the most patient in the AFL.

Year after year of crap and we keep coming back for more PSD

Certainly not signs of sanity

The poor old Dogs have had it even harder than us.

And only one flag ever .

I actually feel sorry for them .

When a Melbourne supporter is pitying you it means you are really screwed .

The poor old Dogs have had it even harder than us.

And only one flag ever .

I actually feel sorry for them .

When a Melbourne supporter is pitying you it means you are really screwed .

It also follows Biff, that if someone who has endured Melbourne's shite can pity others they must have a Mother Teresa complex. I don't really see you as a mother Teresa. It follows therefore that you are screwed beyond hope of recovery.

It also follows Biff, that if someone who has endured Melbourne's shite can pity others they must have a Mother Teresa complex. I don't really see you as a mother Teresa. It follows therefore that you are screwed beyond hope of recovery.

Good point .

You've really set me on the reality bus there.

Now that I know there is virtually no hope for me i can take a proper appraisal of the future .

by removing all delusion and quitting my obvious Mother Teresa issues i will have less pity on myself for being so pityful.

You've really helped me out.

Thanks for that .

The poor old Dogs have had it even harder than us.

And only one flag ever .

I actually feel sorry for them .

When a Melbourne supporter is pitying you it means you are really screwed .

To be honest, we have no right to feel sorry for anyone. When I say 'we', I mean me as I have never seen Melbourne win a flag. I got on board when I was 8 years old in 1988 and was used to finals being the norm. I also used to crow about it quite a bit to my primary school classmates. It was only later when I found out about Melbourne's track record from '65 to '86 that I realized I had nothing to crow about.

To be honest, we have no right to feel sorry for anyone. When I say 'we', I mean me as I have never seen Melbourne win a flag. I got on board when I was 8 years old in 1988 and was used to finals being the norm. I also used to crow about it quite a bit to my primary school classmates. It was only later when I found out about Melbourne's track record from '65 to '86 that I realized I had nothing to crow about.

Yeah CBF , many of us have varying degrees of pain . For those of us who just missed the glory years it's been especially painful .

The Python blokes kinda sum it up best ...

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by Macca

Good point .

You've really set me on the reality bus there.

Now that I know there is virtually no hope for me i can take a proper appraisal of the future .

by removing all delusion and quitting my obvious Mother Teresa issues i will have less pity on myself for being so pityful.

You've really helped me out.

Thanks for that .

At least you are man enough to fess up. Your only hope is to ascend into chronic alcoholism.

At least you are man enough to fess up. Your only hope is to ascend into chronic alcoholism.

At least there is hope.

I shall give it my all.

Ever thought of writing an Agony Aunt column for the paper?

At least there is hope.

I shall give it my all.

Ever thought of writing an Agony Aunt column for the paper?

"The Truth" , sadly, is no more.

So as I suspected we have never done 6 miserable years to finals in one season!

I wasn't around but I hear 1981-1986 were pretty horrible (in fact 1966-1986 were pretty horrible!) but we finished 3rd (and should have been 2nd) in 1987.

Realistically we can and should win 10 games, where that leaves us on the ladder I don't know. This side can't be compared to the 2012 side because there are just too many changes of personnel, I think we've recruited we'll and have a much better probable starting 22 so our performances should improve.

How much better we are will depend on the game plan and the coaching, the players should be fit enough and there will be no excuses.

Realistically we can and should win 10 games, where that leaves us on the ladder I don't know. This side can't be compared to the 2012 side because there are just too many changes of personnel, I think we've recruited we'll and have a much better probable starting 22 so our performances should improve.How much better we are will depend on the game plan and the coaching, the players should be fit enough and there will be no excuses.

Agree ... 10 wins is the goal and is achievable. I think 11th or 12th in 2013. Go demons.

Hi guys and girls,

So the trade period is over and we are fast approaching the xmas break. I was thinking what would be a realistic pass mark for the 2013. I was thinking about 7-8 wins with a ladder position of around 11-13. Also no massive floggings

l was thinking round that as well and if we don't get flogged l'll be happy

realistically I can gaurantee three things that will happen next year - 1. we will put in a solid showing against a good side and we will all bask in the glorious future that awaits. 2. we will play some utterly putrid football and we will discuss how the list is rotten and Neeld needs to go. 3. At the end of the year opinion will be divided about whether or not we are progressing, stagnating or going backwards

1 Hawthorne

did you seriously type that? Not only have they been a VFL/AFL club for 77 years, the suburb of Hawthorn is about 170 years old. If you follow football, or even have the slightest knowledge of the city of Melbourne, you must surely have seen the proper noun written down once or twice before. Like every single time you've looked at the AFL ladder, for example. There is no 'e' on the end FFS

Edited December 17, 201212 yr by Curry & Beer

I expect us to finish top 4.

I expect us to finish bottom 4.

I am a Melbourne supporter.

did you seriously type that? Not only have they been a VFL/AFL club for 77 years, the suburb of Hawthorn is about 170 years old. If you follow football, or even have the slightest knowledge of the city of Melbourne, you must surely have seen the proper noun written down once or twice before. Like every single time you've looked at the AFL ladder, for example. There is no 'e' on the end FFS

Just like you're supposed to start sentences with capital letters.