Its all pointing to the club losing draft picks, who knows they might even take our pick no. 4 this year and take next years as well. A massive fine will kill us and losing a lot of draft piucks will as well, could mean the end of the club as we know it. I can only hope they do what Patrick Smith said this morning on SEN that they set clubs up for this so its the AFL's fault its happened. Also go back and Liberatore about Carlton, ask Collingwood about the year they deliberatley lost the last 8 games and picked up Pendlebury and Thomas or when St.Kilda got Reiwoldt and Kozcinski. West Coast went down for ONE year to get the wooden spoon and got Natinui. All these questions must be asked if they are going to stick the boot into us.

If we are stripped of picks I will be doing my part- and that is making my viewpoints heard through any form of media I can, will also gladly attend any mass rally!

Our only mistake was being stupid enough to involve so many people in what should only have been whispered about and alluded to.

If we get taken down I will donate whatever I can to a legal battle and save whatever I can when the AFL from that moment forward decide to withdraw from helping us out so much.

We need #4 this year badly, this cannot be stressed enough.

If we lose Wines because of this I don't know what this will do to me.

Always us- the loyal fans who get royally screwed in all this. Please, please football god if you exist, let there be no sanctions, just a confession from the AFL that their plan was a floored one and in the future anyone that is caught rorting a system will be dealt with.

This isn't the AFL's fault this happened, it's the MFC's fault plain and simple.

It's the fault of a weak culture, and managerial incompetence.

A 10 person meeting to conspire the deliberate loss of football matches.................it tells you everything you need to know about those involved.

Perhaps when Schwab was dicking around with the new club emblem, he could have included a symbol that represents the clubs interest or intent to win every game we participate in, or does that go without saying????

Its all pointing to the club losing draft picks, who knows they might even take our pick no. 4 this year and take next years as well. A massive fine will kill us and losing a lot of draft piucks will as well, could mean the end of the club as we know it. I can only hope they do what Patrick Smith said this morning on SEN that they set clubs up for this so its the AFL's fault its happened. Also go back and Liberatore about Carlton, ask Collingwood about the year they deliberatley lost the last 8 games and picked up Pendlebury and Thomas or when St.Kilda got Reiwoldt and Kozcinski. West Coast went down for ONE year to get the wooden spoon and got Natinui. All these questions must be asked if they are going to stick the boot into us.

Missing the point completely. We're not going to get off with a defence that "well everyone else was doing it!"

We all know other clubs tanked. The AFL know that, the fans know that, hell, the players and coaches know that.

We're in big poo not because we actually tanked (because let's be honest everyone knows we did) but because there is evidence out that we did. Big difference.

That meeting was the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

So we have a meeting at which there was discussion about the consequences of winning or losing a game or games but not direct instructions for the players to lose and suddenly we're guilty of tanking and must be sanctioned? That's not necessarily the case at all.

A couple of years ago, the Fremantle selectors met to select their team for the final round of the season against Hawthorn. They decided to rest half their team and would have also discussed the consequences of picking a team that wasn't going to win in a pink fit. Does that mean that the players they put out onto the field weren't going to play the game on its merits?

Having meetings and discussing the consequences of a particular selection process is not the same as actually ordering your players to lie down and lose and the players themselves have indicated that when they ran out onto the field they were doing their beat to win. In the case of the Richmond game, the fact they were in front when the siren went is more proof of that than some people's versions of what transpired at a meeting held more than three years ago.

I am shocked that people are talking about sanctions when we as a club haven't even had our chance to put our side of the story. Some of you people are truly shameful and disgusting specimens, hardly worthy of calling yourselves supporters.

This club is the laughing stock of the competition. It's embarrassing supporting the demons.

We are getting investigated for fixing games, can't get or top picks right and can't keep/develop our talent.

Changes need to be made from the top down and bring in management that both know what they are doing and can start fixing this train wreck of a football club

This club is the laughing stock of the competition. It's embarrassing supporting the demons.

Don't bother then.

I'm a proud Dees supporter, proud of what we've achieved, and prouder still of what we've managed to do in the last 12 months.

Harden up.

This club is the laughing stock of the competition. It's embarrassing supporting the demons.

We are getting investigated for fixing games, can't get or top picks right and can't keep/develop our talent.

Changes need to be made from the top down and bring in management that both know what they are doing and can start fixing this train wreck of a football club

Changes have been made. Give Neeld a chance.

All still speculation at this point and if there isn;t anymore evidence then what's been mentioned in the media then there's still no smoking gun in my opinion from a legal perspective.

Worst case scenario and there is a fine & loss of draft picks the club need to convince the AFL that the draft pick loss should be for 2013 given our 2nd round pick is dedicated to father son and Pick 4 is a compensation pick that we're entitled to under the AFL expansion rules, it's not our first round draft pick.

The problem is that there is no defence, as we have to cop whatever penalty the AFL dishes out.

There is no way we would take the AFL to court.

TD that was most sensible grounded post I have read on this whole fiasco... and I have now read hundreds.

If it comes to being found guilty, why don't we push for not being able to receive any premiership points for a year or 2 as opposed to the draconian fines and draft picks?

Don't expect us to be involved much in the 2013 draft.

Hope we hold into pick #4 this year - the timing of these latest revelations and the thoroughness of the AFL's investigation may see that happen.

Next year we're stuffed. It may even impact 2014.

We're looking at years in the wasteland. Viney and Hogan will need to every bit as elite as they're touted to be, as there won't be anyone else of a commensurate age and talent level to help them.

If it comes to being found guilty, why don't we push for not being able to receive any premiership points for a year or 2 as opposed to the draconian fines and draft picks?

We will have no say in the penalty handed down.

It could be all three, fine,draft picks and points.

All still speculation at this point and if there isn;t anymore evidence then what's been mentioned in the media then there's still no smoking gun in my opinion from a legal perspective.

Worst case scenario and there is a fine & loss of draft picks the club need to convince the AFL that the draft pick loss should be for 2013 given our 2nd round pick is dedicated to father son and Pick 4 is a compensation pick that we're entitled to under the AFL expansion rules, it's not our first round draft pick.

Signed statement of testimony by more than one witness at this vault meeting would be a very big smoking gun.

Next year we're stuffed. It may even impact 2014.

We're looking at years in the wasteland. Viney and Hogan will need to every bit as elite as they're touted to be, as there won't be anyone else of a commensurate age and talent level to help them.

From past examples, draft penalties hurt a club for up to 10 years.

Don't bother then.

I'm a proud Dees supporter, proud of what we've achieved, and prouder still of what we've managed to do in the last 12 months.

Harden up.

Extreme masochist.

We are a laughing stock for what has happened over the past 4 years.

There has been very little to be proud about.

We continue to be a C grade circus act.

We will have no say in the penalty handed down.

It could be all three, fine,draft picks and points.

The new Big 3 - what a situation

A ten person meeting about the benefit of winning less then 5 games is no different then a 900 person thread doing the same thing, unless the players were told not to win.

To quote Peter Landy, " we are in more trouble than the early settlers".

We will loose draft picks this year and next and we can forget about Ollie Wines.

I recall with the Carlton sanctions they were announced only a couple of days before the ND. i can see us banned from the draft this year and we will have an big $$$$$$$$$$ fine.

In many ways it is good we traded all of our good picks for players (apart from 4) and we have a top 5 pick coming in next year.

I am not sure where that will leave our list management with gaps in our list. I dont think we will be able to delist any other player as those players will have to supplement our list...

I think it would be bloody stiff of the AFL to take away pick 4 at such late notice.

Trade and free agency strategies were linked to the upcoming draft.

If we knew we were having draft picks taken away from us, we could've traded a Sylvia to get back into the draft.

Luckily there needs to be a certain thing called evidence. A document, a recording, a confession. Etc etc. Brock Mclean is still going on about it. Absolute snake.

Has anyone considered that if they take pick 4 off us this year, they are likely to also remove our 2nd round pick ie. Viney?

Lets just settle down. Nothing will come of this, so they had a meeting to discuss the benefits of not winning 5 games. When you had a [censored] season you need to discuss the upcoming draft. Tanking is when your instructed to lose. No player was told do not win this game. Thats the definition of tanking. FFS people need to stop worrying about things before they have happened

Sophie's choice, but I would prefer to lose pick 3 and Hogan goes into next years draft.

We get pick 4 which would now be 3. We get back pick 13.

Has anyone considered that if they take pick 4 off us this year, they are likely to also remove our 2nd round pick ie. Viney?

Take the picks, fine the club and boot out club people... But for god sake do not take Viney.