It looks like Dean Bailey was wrong

[diesel 420]

No would still be talking about getting games into Cook

Cook would have played 10 games by now, been torn to pieces by the AFL's best defenders and have had what litlle confidence he had shattered.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

*Cough*, *Cough*

And i will ask again.....Who have we beaten again this year?

Lucky we are putting in the worst opposition performances this year rather than anyone we are playing against.

You cant even find the straws to clutch.

Clever comment.

Can you tell me who has said that or are you making it up?

I made it up. Please remember that this is a public forum. You're lucky i'm still talking about footy

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Cook would have played 10 games by now, been torn to pieces by the AFL's best defenders and have had what litlle confidence he had shattered.

Not if we had Clark.

[45HG 1,539]

He's hardly going to have said, upon being sacked, "I've left the club with a minimal fitness/discipline base bereft of players who attack the footy consistently and a list that is, to cap it off, filled with players with poor skills."

[Guest King Cuthbertson]

*Cough*, *Cough*

And i will ask again.....Who have we beaten again this year?

Lucky we are putting in the worst opposition performances this year rather than anyone we are playing against.

You cant even find the straws to clutch.

I don't think you fully appreciate the task that Mark Neeld has been given. For Chris Scott, his task was to take a dual premiership team choc full of talent and experience, and tweak their fitness training and to get them playing less down the corridor.

Mark Neeld in contrast, has had to spend his first preseason giving the players a training programme that will 'GET US' to AFL standards of fitness in 2 years. That's coming from Dave Misson, one of the most highly credentialed fitness trainers in this country...

He has had to actually teach the playing group 'defensive principles' that have been ingrained in other playing groups for YEARS.

Due to the fact the playing groups level of fitness was not AFL standard, and getting this aspect on track was given priority, time normally spent on 'teaching structures' and 'gameplan' was neglected until the start of the season.

He has inherited an extremely unbalanced and inexperienced playing list, with senior players who have been found wanting under a tougher regime, and youngsters who have not been properly developed previously.

The group of players 25 years+ are widely regarded as the worst in the competiton with the least effective leadership of any AFL club. The fact we appointed a 20 year old as a captain should illustrate this point if it wasn't already obvious.

Players are clearly playing 'tired' because most of them are still adjusting to the spike in expectations required from a fitness perspective, and this seems to have had an adverse affect on performance in games to some extent.

Aside from these hurdles, Mark Neeld has been charged with changing the ENTIRE culture of the football club.

I've heard from various sources that opposition perception of the 'Bailey gameplan', was that it was good for 8-10 wins a season, but wouldn't hold up to being a 'finals football' gameplan. We could smack teams off the park when they weren't switched on with one-way flair heavy football, but when sides structured up well against us, and didn't allow us the time and space to operate, we had absolutely no counter. So essentially, it was a gameplan ineffective against good sides, which is surprising considering our 'giant killing' status between 2008-2011.

You are being unrealistic.

[Guest King Cuthbertson]

He's hardly going to have said, upon being sacked, "I've left the club with a minimal fitness/discipline base bereft of players who attack the footy consistently and a list that is, to cap it off, filled with players with poor skills."

Yes, but he should have

[machine11 142]

After he was sacked he said the team would definitely play finals this year, or words to that effect. In retrospect, I think he might have been over-egging the pudding on how much he achieved as coach.

Arguably, he left Neeld a smouldering wreck that won't be playing finals for quite a while.

I think Jimmy Stynes summed up Bailey pretty much to a "t" Players ran rings arround Bailey. Going to take a bit of time to rectify his disaster. More than one draft anyhow.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

IYou are being unrealistic.

I have already commented that Bailey was flawed and had to go so I dont know why you needed to parrot about it.

I dont underestimate the job Neeld has got to do. But it not just up to Neeld to change the culture of the Club.lts the role of the Board down. And in the Bailey years it was clear the Board were not aware of what was happening or going on both on the field and within the FD.

And the group of senior players Bailey inherited in 2007 was as bad or worse than what Neeld inherited.

At this stage Neeld is largely unproven at senior level and the on field results are dispairing bad. He has two years left on his contract to turn it around but its coming off a very low base. Therefore I am not sure why posters are demonising (pun) Bailey when Neeld's results to date have been terrible. The way many posters are re writing history all the Clubs woes started under Bailey. They didn't and they go back further.

And given what we have seen the buck should stop with the Board for the failings in the number of areas

[Guest King Cuthbertson]

I have already commented that Bailey was flawed and had to go so I dont know why you needed to parrot about it.

I dont underestimate the job Neeld has got to do. But it not just up to Neeld to change the culture of the Club.lts the role of the Board down. And in the Bailey years it was clear the Board were not aware of what was happening or going on both on the field and within the FD.

And the group of senior players Bailey inherited in 2007 was as bad or worse than what Neeld inherited.

At this stage Neeld is largely unproven at senior level and the on field results are dispairing bad. He has two years left on his contract to turn it around but its coming off a very low base. Therefore I am not sure why posters are demonising (pun) Bailey when Neeld's results to date have been terrible. The way many posters are re writing history all the Clubs woes started under Bailey. They didn't and they go back further.

And given what we have seen the buck should stop with the Board for the failings in the number of areas

Neeld's CV is extremely impressive. I outlined the reasons why I think we are underperforming right now, but you seem to want to lay the blame at Mark Neeld's inability to coach. Yes, the results are bad..... for the very reasons I outlined in my previous post.

It's extremely frustrating to see a lack of progress, but I don't believe he should be crucified on the basis that he's unable to turn the fortunes of a club in utter disarray into a finals outfit within a single season.

Give him time. Bailey got 4 years, Neeld hasn't even completed his 1st.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

..

Give him time. Bailey got 4 years, Neeld hasn't even completed his 1st.

If he turns in another year like this, he may not even complete his 2nd year.

[old dee 23,487]

If he turns in another year like this, he may not even complete his 2nd year.

Yes RR there had better be some improvement by July 2013 or the hounds will be baying for blood.

[dee-luded 2,959]

After he was sacked he said the team would definitely play finals this year, or words to that effect. In retrospect, I think he might have been over-egging the pudding on how much he achieved as coach.

Arguably, he left Neeld a smouldering wreck that won't be playing finals for quite a while.

IF, we had have kept the same gameplan & coaches we may have gone close to getting to 8th, but other developing teams have matured ahead of us, (North & the Crows) so that would probably have made it difficult.

The problem in my eyes is that straight out that offensive style footy is too one dimensional, & is readily broken down thru pressure.

So I think we may have gotten to 9th/10th/11th-ish, that would be all & we would have again done what we did under Daniher.

So the way we're going will take a bit of learning, & big adjustments, It is the Big game footy to take us Forward. IMO once we learn to play responsible football & get bigger in the bodies we'll add more offense to our armory.

Edited August 27, 2012 by dee-luded

[old dee 23,487]

IF, we had have kept the same gameplan & coaches we may have gone close to getting to 8th, but other developing teams have matured ahead of us, (North & the Crows) so that would probably have made it difficult.

The problem in my eyes is that straight out that offensive style footy is too one dimensional, & is readily broken down thru pressure.

So I think we may have gotten to 9th/10th/11th-ish, that would be all & we would have again done what we did under Daniher.

So the way we're going will take a bit of learning, & big adjustments, It is the Big game footy to take us Forward. IMO once we learn to play responsible football & get bigger in the bodies we'll add more offense to our armory.

Dee-luded I live for the day we do as badly as under Daniher.

He got us into a GF

We are so far from that at present.

20% of the membership will be dead before that happens again IMO.

I get a little tired of the constant demeaning of Daniher

He achieved something that has only happen twice in 48 years.

[DemonDan... 77]

Cough.

We beat Adelaide by 96 points. We beat Richmond. We thumped Essendon.

Bailey was with MFC just under 4 years.

And who have we beaten this year?

Speaks for itself

Adelaide were abysmal that day. One of the worst opposition performances i've seen. Richmond was nothing to write home about. Where exactly did they finish last year??? And Essendon...well we beat them AGAIN this year. So what does that say?? A 33 point win is a 'thumping' is it?

You're right I apologize it was 4 years not 5.

You're clutching at straws.

Absolutely KC, we beat undermanned, interstate or 'new' teams in Baileys 4 yrs.. a couple of times we had to come back from 8 - odd goals to do it.

Despite the fact his hands were tied at times, imo, he's one of the worst coach ever, behind Terry Wallet. A good teacher dean.. not a coaches a$$hole.

All I could've asked from Neeld was to win more than 8.5 games this season, which I'm sure many of us would have thought wise.

But no, the rebuilding BS surfaces again and our team looks worse than ever, our game plan isn't working, most of the players are badly out of form.

Its difficult and takes more than a handful of games to UNDO 4 YRS worth of shite habits.. (and what game plan? Neeld has often and openly admitted were not ready to negotiate a game plan yet..)

DEFENCE - Mr. Bailey, its not something a Jamaican sits on when he cant make up his mind..

EDIT: BTW - Neeld Aniher - very good play on words there, for your avatar name.. took me a couple of seconds.. very nice.

Edited August 27, 2012 by DemonDan...

[beelzebub 23,198]

If he turns in another year like this, he may not even complete his 2nd year.

I tell you what you whinger .

Lets comeback to this next year after we have actally taken some real steps forward....or no , before you call it.

Cant beleive this tripe. You like to profer reason. You suppose a higher intellect; well youre exhibiting pleb like logic ( thats an oxymoron for others, even you might get it )

If that youre argument ot berate. Well what IF things actually get better. That wont serve your what passs for an argument wlil it. What IF with better players and better fitness we actually start playing a beter and moreconfident brand of footy ? Its only an IF I grant you. Same as you ..an IF

As you would suggest , hes contracted for 3 years. Hes going nowhere. This is his first year where hes in cntrol . Even you would agree hes inherited a basketcase of a list with some exceptions. He is entitled to make efforsd to weed out and build . By all means lets look at things in a realistic light this time next year but in the mean time just go away and join the other pathetic whingers..

Edited August 27, 2012 by belzebub59

[titan_uranus 24,583]

The smouldering wreck still won 8.5 games last year.

What are we considered now then?

Well done on missing the point.

When a landowner chooses to build a new house, and he tears down the old one and has a pile of rubble, would you walk up and say 'you may be trying to build a new house, but you had a house before, and now you have a pile of rubble, how bad is that!'?

No. You would recognise that the old house was OK but ultimately a new house was required, and to get from the old one to the new one you have to engage in renovations which create a mess.

[titan_uranus 24,583]

If he turns in another year like this, he may not even complete his 2nd year.

I think there's a problem with people whose initials are RR. Their posts seem to be total crap.

[Hardnut 327]

Why the sudden rash of posts defending Neeld (King Cuthbertson, DemonDan, belzebub59)?

The MFC/Bailey relationship is history and no-one is suggesting otherwise.

A few posters are rightly pointing out Neeld's current, and possible future position, if something doesn't improve. They have also rightly highlighted the Board's responsibility.

So what's the problem? Could it be Carlton's position has rattled a few cages - they are ruthless, to say the least!

Edited August 27, 2012 by Hardnut

[DemonDan... 77]

Why the sudden rash of posts defending Neeld (King Cuthbertson, DemonDan, belzebub59)?

1st time reading the thread, juz giving an opinion to the general conversation.

Didnt actually defend Neeld, bagged Bailey.

How do you tie in Carlton to the conversation?

EDIT: Do you think we'll go after Ratts for a position at MFC.. MIDFIELD coach perhaps?

(i can hear the the poster who started the 'sack Royal' thread running to his keyboard!)

Edited August 27, 2012 by DemonDan...

[Hardnut 327]

1st time reading the thread, juz giving an opinion to the general conversation.

Didnt actually defend Neeld, bagged Bailey.

How do you tie in Carlton to the conversation?

EDIT: Do you think we'll go after Ratts for a position at MFC.. MIDFIELD coach perhaps?

(i can hear the the poster who started the 'sack Royal' thread running to his keyboard!)

Fair enough DD - my point is that the focus should be on Neeld (not on the past) and his actual performance as opposed to his CV.

I don't believe we will go after Ratten - my point was simply that Carlton act ruthlessly relative to MFC when satisfactory performance doesn't occur, and I think a few posters were simply making a similar point.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Dee-luded I live for the day we do as badly as under Daniher.

He got us into a GF

We are so far from that at present.

20% of the membership will be dead before that happens again IMO.

I get a little tired of the constant demeaning of Daniher

He achieved something that has only happen twice in 48 years.

You reckon that side was special? I was never truly impressed with it. And progressively became more concerned with each season after 2000, till finally I thought to myself, "bugger this", whats going on with this side & club. So I started having more of an analytical look at where we were.

And I realised it wasn't good. We had skilled players refusing to do the 1%ers or tackle, & battlers left to do the dirty work by themselves. We were going Nowhere!

And we're still cleaning it out now.

These assessments on failed ventures up the ladder are teasers & nothing more & prove nothing.. They're like Richmond teasing their supporters.

If you've been conned by this artificial successes of a side which looks flash for moments, here & there, I'm surprised.

We were nothing more than pretenders back then.

The side that really had talent was in the 90's, but we failed to take it anywhere.

# Daniher, demeaned? And he walked straight into another Head Coaching gig, didn't he... Not.

If you want to Idolise him, go ahead.

NO one else in the footy world has, or he would be a Head Coach again. He's applied & got nowhere. Why??? Because the knowing people Know more than that.

He's an assistant, & thats it.

[DemonDan... 77]

Fair enough DD - my point is that the focus should be on Neeld (not on the past) and his actual performance as opposed to his CV.

I don't believe we will go after Ratten - my point was simply that Carlton act ruthlessly relative to MFC when satisfactory performance doesn't occur, and I think a few posters were simply making a similar point.

Agree totally.. Who wouldnt want to forget 'the bailey era'?

Personally, i think Neeldy will be the best thing to happen to our club in Fifty years.

On the 2nd part, i think the times they are a changing:

We were ruthless in reacting to 186..

We were ruthless in snatching Mitch Clark..

Weve been ruthless acquiring a top line assistant coaching panel..

and now weve pinched the Pies No.1 recruiter..

All Neeld inspired actions you'll note.. but never-the-less, signs change is happening for the better!

BTW: how good would it be to have Ratts coaching our midfield! Lets be ruthless, we thinks..

Edited August 27, 2012 by DemonDan...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

....

I am sure you try hard Bub but you just come out out looking shallow. And by the way its time for a new keyboard there were about 8 typos. That was the most interesting aspect of your post.

Why the sudden rash of posts defending Neeld (King Cuthbertson, DemonDan, belzebub59)?

The MFC/Bailey relationship is history and no-one is suggesting otherwise.

A few posters are rightly pointing out Neeld's current, and possible future position, if something doesn't improve. They have also rightly highlighted the Board's responsibility.

So what's the problem? Could it be Carlton's position has rattled a few cages - they are ruthless, to say the least!

Its too hard for some pants.

[beelzebub 23,198]

I am sure you try hard Bub but you just come out out looking shallow. And by the way its time for a new keyboard there were about 8 typos. That was the most interesting aspect of your post.

Its too hard for some pants.

typos aside...mine had content..

Your responses are lacking , and Im shallow ?? ffs mate you have to do better than that.

You like to drift o-t when anyone puts up arguments. Try addressing the substance of the matter.

You rightly criticise Bailey for accomplishing nothing in 4 years other than retarding our list and nobbling development.

Another coach comes along , one who realises and appreciated what he had ( or more the point hadnt ) at his disposal and starts the clearout and player ajudication required and he's on notice ?

Bailey allowed our lot to roam, to play fast and loose, to play unaccountable footy. This worked as flat track bullies but came to screaming halts against legitimate oppositions. Neeld is instilling new accountability into the playing style, hes apportioning more responsibility to players to observe specific roles and yes they are found wanting. Thats the whole point. To see who can and who cant. The 'cants' will be moved on and the list supplemented with more of those who can, or might look like they can. And so the list progresses.

You berate Bailey for only 8.5 wins and seem to suggest by comparison Neelds results to date are even more lamentable.

This surely shows to many that you really havent a clue as you simply cant seem to grasp what is actually happening.

if there is no discernable improvement this time next year there would then, and then only be cause for worry and big 'please explain' asked of Neeld.

Its like a builder going in to fix a dodgy's reno. You often have to tear down the rubbish to get back to something you can work with before you actually look like youre making progress.

Is that beyond you ?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You berate Bailey for only 8.5 wins and seem to suggest by comparison Neelds results to date are even more lamentable.

They are. And even allowing for the fact its his first year, the standard of football played by this side is the worst I have seen since 1981.

This surely shows to many that you really havent a clue as you simply cant seem to grasp what is actually happening.

I have seen whats happening and have commented that he has a year to improve the side.

if there is no discernable improvement this time next year there would then, and then only be cause for worry and big 'please explain' asked of Neeld.

This is what I wrote in post 20.

He needs wins next year just to hold onto his coaching position. If we are this bad in 12 months, he has to be gone.

You are actually arguing my position legend. Neeld has 12 months to turn the ship.

Kepp up the good work Bub