Don't know, just like you don't.

What I do know is players like Martin, Gaff, Hill, Heppell, Redden, Hannebery, Shuey, Sidebottom and Atley - the next generation of gun young mids - have skipped right past him.

Trengove is stagnating big time. He's a no.2 draft pick for chrissakes.

You're not telling us anything we don't know. All you're doing is being pessimistic. It is highly unusual (ie impossible) for a healthy 20 year old man to become drastically slower in the space of one year. Therefore, while I don't know that he's injured or under a heavy workload, these are the two most likely answers.

Also, what number draft pick he is means as little to his speed as whether or not he's captain (which you so rightly pointed out).

It's clearly a combination of lack of support and an increased training intensity.

I wouldn't be surprised if he actually covers the most ground of any of our players.

Case in point: the game yesterday; when he was being 'rested' up forward, time and again, he was the only player providing a lead. Everyone else just standing motionless.

You're not telling us anything we don't know. All you're doing is being pessimistic. It is highly unusual (ie impossible) for a healthy 20 year old man to become drastically slower in the space of one year. Therefore, while I don't know that he's injured or under a heavy workload, these are the two most likely answers.

Also, what number draft pick he is means as little to his speed as whether or not he's captain (which you so rightly pointed out).

I don't think he has become slower. He was never quick.

Let's not re-write history regarding his first two seasons. He was going okay but never really excited. We all expected more this year ... but he hasn't delivered.

A major disappointment. No getting around it.

Go back and read your posts on this thread. You start off by getting stuck in to Trengove on a very general basis, probably because Range Rover was. Then, when the discussion changes tack towards Trengove being slow, you say that its not about him having a lack of support, it is about him having a lack of pace.

Utterly inconsistent.

And I wasn't being rude, I was merely pointing this out.

I have been saying he has been slow all year. What RR says has little to with my posts apart from some agreement.

You were rude.

I don't think he has become slower. He was never quick.

Let's not re-write history regarding his first two seasons. He was going okay but never really excited. We all expected more this year ... but he hasn't delivered.

A major disappointment. No getting around it.

Clearly I think his first two seasons were better than you do.

I don't think he has become slower. He was never quick.

Let's not re-write history regarding his first two seasons. He was going okay but never really excited. We all expected more this year ... but he hasn't delivered.

A major disappointment. No getting around it.

In the state draft testing Trengove recorded a 20m sprint time of 2.97 seconds. Whilst it's not a top 10 score, it's certainly at the pointy end. Here's some of the other 20m sprint results as a reference.

20-metre sprint (seconds)

1. Ayden Kennedy 2.88

2. Dustin Martin 2.89

3. Andrew Hooper 2.90

4. Sam Reid 2.92

=5. Sam Shaw 2.93

=5. Kane Lucas

=5. Gary Rohan

=8. Lewis Jetta 2.95

=8. Dylan Grimes

=10. Robbie Hicks 2.96

=10. Jack Fitzpatrick

=10. Bradley Sheppard

=10. Travis Colyer

The bottom line is he's lost speed, that can only mean he's injured or his body isn't coping with the additional training load this year.

He's also in his third season.

Third. Season.

His 2011 was pretty damn good, to be sure, but most players have an off year around season 2 or 3.

Or is JT not allowed?

Has had a poor year but will be a very good player and leader at the club.

Their is one name which explains all of this

Barry P

End of story.

Im hanging for the end of this 18 month pre-season

Repeat guys get off his case! Our matriarch chose our Captain and rightly so our matriarch chose to play him in the one's not drop him to the Magoos.

If you both (the two previous posts) truly believe in Neeld then you would support our Captain through the hard times !

matriarch?

matriarch?

The mother of all Miss Understandings.

The mother of all Miss Understandings.

that makes sense now biffo, ta

Some of you clowns amaze me.

Newsflash: bar the expansion sides we are the worst side in the competition. Jones aside (& Clark for half a season), nobody has lifted their game at all this year. Nobody. By that measure nothing on the list is that 'special'.

The stat about his lack of disposals made me giggle, barely any of our players average 20 or more disposals.

I see Trengove as a potential Jimmy Bartel, plenty of dickwits were writing him off as too slow in his 3rd season too. He was even dropped to the VFL & mooted as potential trade bait. The kid had nothing special. 3 premierships, a Brownlow & Norm Smith, 7 years later for 'nothing special'... JT is arguably ahead of Bartel at the same stage of his career (albeit playing in a far worse team) I have high hopes he can achieve nearly half of what Bartel has by the end of it.

Thankyou for the sanity. Great and accurate post.

Go back and read your posts on this thread. You start off by getting stuck in to Trengove on a very general basis, probably because Range Rover was. Then, when the discussion changes tack towards Trengove being slow, you say that its not about him having a lack of support, it is about him having a lack of pace.

Utterly inconsistent.

And I wasn't being rude, I was merely pointing this out.

Brilliant. Sums up WYL in every thread ever created, ever.

It seems it's sacrilege around here to suggest J. Trengove is slow. So I'll stop doing it.

Meanwhile ya'll go on deluding yourselves about it, creating a fictitious injury that he doesn't have.

1) No you won't.

2) Who has suggested he's not slow? No one. Well done, champ.

3) No one's deluding themselves. There is a suggestion he has an injury. Either he does or he doesn't. If he doesn't, then that's a disappointment, for the simple fact that he could be better than he actually is. Does that mean he is a failure? No. Does that mean other players who have had better years are going to be better than him? No. Does that mean he is doomed to fail from here on out? No.

I see nothing special in this guy at all. Nothing.

Rangey, with regards to Trengove, on 25 July in the Josh Caddy thread you wrote, "I'm putting his 2012 down to learning how to play a defensive style of game that will make him a more multi-dimensional player moving forward." What's happened in the last 4 weeks ?

For what it's worth I tended to agree with you. Firstly, he hasn't played mid all year as has been asserted, he's also played as a defensive half forward. He is clearly minding a man at the stoppages as the coaches work on his defensive game. I suspect they'll free him up next year and this has been part of his learning curve.

At state screening in 2009 Trengove ran a sub 3 second 20 metre sprint, which means that fully fit he's certainly not slow. There's no doubt that he's lost some zip, so I'm confident it won't be a major issue going forward. But in the main I trust my eyes. In his first two years I saw him play sone terrific footy in patches and I don't suddenly forget what I saw.

Also, with regards to the Caddy thread that I just referenced, you were the author. If you don't mind I'll quote you once more, "I'm a big fan. A hard, tough, skillful mid who can kick goals. Has an apprenticeship working with Bluey McKenna and Gary Jnr under his belt and should be primed as he enters his third season of footy. I reckon we should go hard at him and trump whatever the Bomber and other clubs can offer the Suns (bar our picks 3 and 4 of course). 3,4, Caddy, Viney ... Now THAT would be a game-changing draft result for the MFC."

I'd like to point out to you that in a bad year Trengove is averaging more disposals, more marks and more tackles. Trengove's first two years absolutely cream Caddy's 2012. I have no doubt that Trengove will become a gun mid. As others have mentioned, it's easy to forget how long it took most of the gun mids of today to play consistently at a high level.

I've also read on this thread that Trengove is 21. He turns 21 next week and played the entire year as a 20 year old.

Edited August 27, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

......At state screening in 2009 Trengove ran a sub 3 second 20 minute sprint, which means that fully fit he's certainly not slow. ................

That must have been really something BH.

Einstein would have been impressed

Rangey, with regards to Trengove, on 25 July in the Josh Caddy thread you wrote, "I'm putting his 2012 down to learning how to play a defensive style of game that will make him a more multi-dimensional player moving forward." What's happened in the last 4 weeks ?

All valid points ... but we're talking about a No.2 draft pick here. We should be posting threads marvelling at this new young champ we're seeing the emergence of. But we're not.

I'm still prepared to write off his 2012. But I can't lie that I'm not worried. There's just nothing to get excited about at the moment with Jack Trengove.

Some years ago conversing deeply with the intelligent father of a former Dees star, we discussed the fact he'd never quite returned to full form after a certain injury, yet no-one including the press ever mentioned it. Though still well worth his pay, previously they'd touted him a future great and Brownlow prediction.

The father said, "This is common in the league. Plenty of players have injuries not bad enough to put them on injured lists, but still affecting their play. It's a secret of the league..... . Managing small injuries, niggles etc. is vital to being a pro; some can be played through. If all had to be absolutely 100% to play, almost no-one would ever take the field." Because of this plus my bit of medical background I'd like to say that in pro sports, it's not always black or white, "he's injured or he's not injured" (as Range Rover suggested). It's shades of grey, and even a different shade of grey for each part of each players body. Managing training loads to best affect each player is an evolving art that totally affects this.

Jack's probably carrying something physical plus a bit of mental stress. Let's hope JT, the doctors, Neeld, Misson etc. are on top of it and it's temporary. It's frustrating with us all not knowing, but I guess we need patience at least for now.

Edited August 27, 201213 yr by Rob Mac......

Don't know, just like you don't.

What I do know is players like Martin, Gaff, Hill, Heppell, Redden, Hannebery, Shuey, Sidebottom and Atley - the next generation of gun young mids - have skipped right past him.

Trengove is stagnating big time. He's a no.2 draft pick for chrissakes.

This is why nobody is taking you seriously in this thread. There's a very plausible reason why he's slow this year and wasn't in his first two years - injury - and you reject it without offering up your basis for doing so or any sensible alternative. Then you're all bemused because nobody can see where you're coming from?

This is why nobody is taking you seriously in this thread. There's a very plausible reason why he's slow this year and wasn't in his first two years - injury - and you reject it without offering up your basis for doing so or any sensible alternative. Then you're all bemused because nobody can see where you're coming from?

I do reject it because he's played every game. No precaution to rest him at all. None.

But if it makes people sleep better at night to believe he's injured, they're welcome to sleep with that teddy bear by their pillow.

I do reject it because he's played every game. No precaution to rest him at all. None.

But if it makes people sleep better at night to believe he's injured, they're welcome to sleep with that teddy bear by their pillow.

Look, I'm a very open minded person and I'm just waiting for you to persuade me with a good argument. The "he's injured" explanation isn't perfect, but it's at least grounded in logic. Fact 1: He wasn't slow last year or the year before. Fact 2: He's slow this year. Something's changed between years 1 and 2 and year 3, so anyone who thinks logically will want to understand what's changed. Potential causes? I can't see any other than injury, body not yet up to the increased workload, et cetera et cetera. Your argument seems to be: "it's not injury, it's some other thing that I don't know what and anyone who can't see that sleeps with a teddy bear by their pillow". It doesn't stand up to the reasonability test.

Unless you can give me something to go on, you can't expect any points for credibility from me, or anyone else wading through the pages of this thread just waiting to be convinced.

Look, I'm a very open minded person and I'm just waiting for you to persuade me with a good argument. The "he's injured" explanation isn't perfect, but it's at least grounded in logic. Fact 1: He wasn't slow last year or the year before. Fact 2: He's slow this year. Something's changed between years 1 and 2 and year 3, so anyone who thinks logically will want to understand what's changed. Potential causes? I can't see any other than injury, body not yet up to the increased workload, et cetera et cetera. Your argument seems to be: "it's not injury, it's some other thing that I don't know what and anyone who can't see that sleeps with a teddy bear by their pillow". It doesn't stand up to the reasonability test.

Unless you can give me something to go on, you can't expect any points for credibility from me, or anyone else wading through the pages of this thread just waiting to be convinced.

Changed body shape, lack of confidence, who knows? Maybe he's just not as good as we'd hoped. It happens.

I think everyone looks quicker when they are sking down hill!

Trengove's pace never got me exited really, it was more his disposal, set shots at goals and contested marking for his size. Thus the Jimmy Bartel comparison that I and others have suggested.

He's had a very average year by the standards we should expect from him, but give the bloke a break. He's very young and the burden of captaining a side is enough reson in my eyes to give him the benifit of the doubt, and see how he goes in 2013.

He's got plenty of mates in the sub par year club.

Has suffered from OP throughout the season, apparently. Not an excuse, but a factor in his slowness. Was not slow in first year.

I'll accept this.

He regularly slotted goals from 50 metres last year ............ now he struggles to make the distance from 35 metres .............. classic OP symptom

I think you can only push young players to either increase their stamina OR their strength.

And the last pre-season focused on building the young players engines at the expense of their power/burst. I've noticed Tapscott's boom kick has dininished this year as he re-built his engine to run out games. Trengove probably on same program.

Perhaps this pre-season will put some power back onto the endurance base they laid down last year...?

Edited August 27, 201213 yr by PaulRB

I'll accept this.

He regularly slotted goals from 50 metres last year ............ now he struggles to make the distance from 35 metres .............. classic OP symptom

If we DO accept this for a moment....and Im torn between this thought and mighty demons post. Whats the optimum treatment? Would playing make it worse or merely just make it harder to play? I'd find it hard to believe they were risking his long term value to the club by playing him in a year when we sucked the big one. Can he recover over a summer?