leaving aside the fact you can't have an unfounded prediction.

It is a bit like 200% support and - 100% support binman.

I should be the last one giving advise but I am constantly amused by these and other things we say.

Particularly in the media.

Once they were the ones setting the standard.

PS Second thoughts they probably are now.

They used to give 120% effort to uphold the standard, but now I reckon it's dropped back to only 100%.

They used to give 120% effort to uphold the standard, but now I reckon it's dropped back to only 100%.

Very Good!

PS I had better stop I think I am hijacking the thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Toumpas is exactly the sort of kid that Roos won't play because they're not ready.

If Viney and Watts and the rest of the midfield are fit, I doubt Toumpas will get a game. He'll develop at Casey with Salem and we'll have to be patient.

Wines would smash the door down and force Roos to play him, but we don't have Wines so get over it.

Fark me are we still talking about the whole Wines VS Toumpas. Who gives a [censored]. Time to move on people and let it run it's course. Revisit this topic in 5 years and see who is the best then.

Hear, here

The best two posts on this whole thread.

Toumpas is exactly the sort of kid that Roos won't play because they're not ready.

If Viney and Watts and the rest of the midfield are fit, I doubt Toumpas will get a game. He'll develop at Casey with Salem and we'll have to be patient.

Wines would smash the door down and force Roos to play him, but we don't have Wines so get over it.

I don't know about this, although I understand why you'd think that...

Players can still develop at the top level whilst playing particular roles and I reckon Toumpas will play the majority of games for us, providing he contributes and plays his role.

His skills and decision making are too good for Casey, Roos would know this. And whilst his body is still maturing, he'll be played as a half forward who uses his running ability to get into open space and then use the footy with deadly precision. Lewis Jetta played the same role early on when he developed his tank even though his speed is more like Blease's.

People easily confuse midfielders and what's required of them early on. The Wines and Toumpas argument is a bore and is absolutely pointless. They are two completely different body shapes, have different game styles, and different attributes. You need a mix of types of players through the midfield and if we had drafted Wines, it possibly would have changed the outcome of the mids we recruited this year..

I'm happy we have Toumpas, we have enough ball winners now but we lack players who can tear teams apart with their foot skills. Toumpas, Salem, Vince and Watts over the next couple of years will really help with that side of our game. It's just as important as having ball winners.

Get behind the young fella. He has a driven mind, wants to succeed. He'll be a ripper.

I don't know about this, although I understand why you'd think that...

Players can still develop at the top level whilst playing particular roles and I reckon Toumpas will play the majority of games for us, providing he contributes and plays his role.

His skills and decision making are too good for Casey, Roos would know this. And whilst his body is still maturing, he'll be played as a half forward who uses his running ability to get into open space and then use the footy with deadly precision. Lewis Jetta played the same role early on when he developed his tank even though his speed is more like Blease's.

People easily confuse midfielders and what's required of them early on. The Wines and Toumpas argument is a bore and is absolutely pointless. They are two completely different body shapes, have different game styles, and different attributes. You need a mix of types of players through the midfield and if we had drafted Wines, it possibly would have changed the outcome of the mids we recruited this year..

I'm happy we have Toumpas, we have enough ball winners now but we lack players who can tear teams apart with their foot skills. Toumpas, Salem, Vince and Watts over the next couple of years will really help with that side of our game. It's just as important as having ball winners.

Get behind the young fella. He has a driven mind, wants to succeed. He'll be a ripper.

Oh, how quickly times change.

Funny how all the talk centres around Wines when maybe the mistake was not overlooking his primary school team mate but over looking his high school team mate.

Toby Greene?

Toby Greene?

God no. You'd be stupid to go near that moron not to mention he can't hit the side of a barn by foot. I'm talking about Jackson Macrae who was drafted after Toumpas but before wines. Left footer, grown to 191cm, predominantly outside but building his inside game and found a heap of the footy against the saints last night. I like Toumpas and I think he's got as much potential as anyone I'm just a big Macrae fan as well.

God no. You'd be stupid to go near that moron not to mention he can't hit the side of a barn by foot. I'm talking about Jackson Macrae who was drafted after Toumpas but before wines. Left footer, grown to 191cm, predominantly outside but building his inside game and found a heap of the footy against the saints last night. I like Toumpas and I think he's got as much potential as anyone I'm just a big Macrae fan as well.

Yeh I couldn't agree more. Macrae looks to have had a really good pre season. Has filled out nicely and there's quite a bit of Pendlebury about him. Would choose him over Wines any day.

Yeh I couldn't agree more. Macrae looks to have had a really good pre season. Has filled out nicely and there's quite a bit of Pendlebury about him. Would choose him over Wines any day.

In reality these players can't be truly judged for 10 years.

Saying you'd choose one over the other "any day" is a very premature judgement.

God no. You'd be stupid to go near that moron not to mention he can't hit the side of a barn by foot. I'm talking about Jackson Macrae who was drafted after Toumpas but before wines. Left footer, grown to 191cm, predominantly outside but building his inside game and found a heap of the footy against the saints last night. I like Toumpas and I think he's got as much potential as anyone I'm just a big Macrae fan as well.

Always liked him as player also Stringer who may end up the pick of the bunch if they start playing him more as a mid but at the time I was happy about us getting Jimmy. The 10 year judgement as 'Hannibal' say's above is the one though.

In reality these players can't be truly judged for 10 years.

Saying you'd choose one over the other "any day" is a very premature judgement.

Don't agree with waiting 10 years, but certainly a few seasons for sure.

I think MacRae is tracking very nicely at the moment, better than Toumpas.

But who knows where it'll be in even 2 years' time.

Toumpas is exactly the sort of kid that Roos won't play because they're not ready.

If Viney and Watts and the rest of the midfield are fit, I doubt Toumpas will get a game. He'll develop at Casey with Salem and we'll have to be patient.

Wines would smash the door down and force Roos to play him, but we don't have Wines so get over it.

Hey DA are you going to keep that head on your avatar after it is removed in the series. An event I am very much looking forward to.

Don't agree with waiting 10 years, but certainly a few seasons for sure.

I was listening to Nathan Buckley a number of years ago and he was being pressed about Watts V Naitanui. He was asked whether Melbourne had made a mistake. He said we won't know until the end of their careers. It was then put to him that surely we'd know after 5 or 6 ? He said, "No, you really have to evaluate it when they're finished".

I thought about what he said and came to the conclusion that he's right. Careers ebb and flow, but any final determination really has to wait until near the end of a career. Watts and Naitanui are now entering their 6th year and even now it's too early to say definitively who'll have the best career.

I was listening to Nathan Buckley a number of years ago and he was being pressed about Watts V Naitanui. He was asked whether Melbourne had made a mistake. He said we won't know until the end of their careers. It was then put to him that surely we'd know after 5 or 6 ? He said, "No, you really have to evaluate it when they're finished".

I thought about what he said and came to the conclusion that he's right. Careers ebb and flow, but any final determination really has to wait until near the end of a career. Watts and Naitanui are now entering their 6th year and even now it's too early to say definitively who'll have the best career.

A good example would be Brad Ottens.

Following his career, many would term it a great success.

But after many years at Richmond he hadn't done so well.

Similar to Cam Mooney, who was really lucky to be involved in a premiership so early, but only found really good form and more premiership success very late in his career.

Hey DA are you going to keep that head on your avatar after it is removed in the series. An event I am very much looking forward to.

I hope that wasn't a definitive spoiler, IT, and more of a wish.

This head stays.

Greatest piece of [censored] to ever grace our screens.

Toumpas over Wines doesn't bother me, even though Wines is clearly ahead of every other midfielder from his year and was available to us. In short, it wasn't a controversial choice.

Watts over NikNat. Scully and Trengove over Martin, Rohan and Sidebottom. All okay IMO. They weren't especially controversial decisions, and the compo we got from Scully defecting has been fantastic for this club.

The picks that bug me however are selecting Lucas Cook at pick 12, not selecting Rory Sloane at pick 35 (after we'd apparently committed to him), and not picking Luke Shuey or Zaharakis when they appeared the more obvious choices from those available. In retrospect, Talia over Gysberts would've been nice too.

This is where the former recruiters let us down IMO. That said, I have complete confidence in Jason Taylor and Todd Viney, given the way the last draft period panned out for us.

So yep - Wines would've been a great pick. Toumpas will be too. Our success or failure going forward won't be based in any way on this particular decision.

Love this.

I believe our recruiters should be hung out to dry on picks like Cook and to an extent, Gysberts who were picks taken well before the general thinking of the time. The debate about not Scully and Toumpas are hindsight - nothing more.

The 10 year judgement as 'Hannibal' say's above is the one though.

Makes list management a challenge.

I was listening to Nathan Buckley a number of years ago and he was being pressed about Watts V Naitanui. He was asked whether Melbourne had made a mistake. He said we won't know until the end of their careers. It was then put to him that surely we'd know after 5 or 6 ? He said, "No, you really have to evaluate it when they're finished".

I thought about what he said and came to the conclusion that he's right. Careers ebb and flow, but any final determination really has to wait until near the end of a career. Watts and Naitanui are now entering their 6th year and even now it's too early to say definitively who'll have the best career.

Watts is in the process of being reinvented as a midfielder under Roos and we got the first glimpse of that process yesterday. Most people were impressed but it was only ground zero for Jack and he has a way to go. However, in this day and age where a club like Freo progressed off the back of some tall mids, I like the idea of a 194-5cm midfielder like Watts who has footy smarts and can deliver the football. As Bob said elsewhere he moves smoothly like Travis.

I hope that wasn't a definitive spoiler, IT, and more of a wish.

This head stays.

Greatest piece of [censored] to ever grace our screens.

No definitive spoiler. Just saying, will relish the ep when it happens. And it will happen. Agree, pretty much my favourite of all time.

As for getting back on topic. People are forgetting the Toump was severely hampered by having two hip op's which cost him most of his final under age year and meant he had no pre season. He shouldn't have played last year and people are jumping on him when really we shouldn't have seen him until this year. By all accounts he is well over the hip problems now and is running really well. So I would reserve all judgements on him till the end of this season.

Extended to 2016.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-07/new-deals-for-port-quartet?utm_medium=RSS

But then he'll be ours.

Surely he's desperate to come across & play with his best mate.

Surely...

But then he'll be ours.

Surely he's desperate to come across & play with his best mate.

Surely...

It all started with Boak re-signing after they got rid of Primus.. Port were viewed as a basket case in 2012 and look at the now. Hinkley has done a fantastic job in such a short time, we can only hope the same happens with our club.