We can easily pick out half a dozen players who will clearly not be held onto at the end of the year, who are currently getting regular or semi-regular games, plus a few more who are 'touch and go' whether we persevere with them for another season, then another set that are contracted next year.

We will cut as much as a quarter of our list a the end of the year, and that'll be from guys currently getting games.

They'll be replaced with 4 mids from the first 25 or so picks, plus whatever selections we can get or improve while offloading 'unrequired' players, and whoever we can grab through free agency given that our salary cap space is going to open wide up again both this year and next as experienced, and some highly paid, players get the chop.

That team will be Neeld's team. And despite becoming even younger (hell, we could be younger than Gold Coast by the end of 2013) it should at least be able to function to his plans.

Sigh, I don't want to sound like I am super-optimistic or complacent. I really hate our current performances and they are simply not acceptable, showing clear lack of 'duty-motivation'. I think this is the core of the problem, the culture problem that just about everyone alludes to in their comments.

Melbourne players past and present have been readily motivated by various things that are mostly personal. Whether it was glory, money, emotional circumstance, or simply the excitement of attacking football. But what is so clealy missing, over the course of seasons and right down to individual moments, is the motivation that comes from within, to improve, to perform consistently, to make the defensive efforts and the unrewarded running to offer options.

That, I think, is what Neeld is working to generate. And it is also a known strength of Neil Craig's. So, for all the rubbish right now as players struggle to build their 'internal, duty-driven' motivation, I do believe in the future.

Good Post. I didn't go yesterday. I had plenty of more enjoyable things to spend my $40 or so (I usually go with my son). I couldn't take the seemingly mindless and uninspired performances of most of the team. My decision to not go was (to me) vindicated when i saw Moloney running down the wing, look up and promptly pump it long into the 50....straight to a kangaroos defender standing on his own, with no other Melbourne player in sight. He was with 2 other kangaroo players so where our forward line was I don't know. I've seen bad demons teams before and have remained optimistic, but this team gives me no optimism at all. We just play so much dumb football. The best efforts I have seen this year was against GWS, when a number of our fringe players (Dunn and Sylvia immediately come to mind) really put in...against kids. Where are they when we need the efforts against better teams ? As you say. I hope that Neeld is looking very hard at some of these players that continually do dumb things and give away stupid free kicks....and we get rid at years end.

Did anyone see the hawks play? Hard, tough, aggressive and kinda freestyle.

Mark neeld, slow, defensive, ineffective, structured.

No wonder democracy dosnt work, the sheep are leading the shepherds.

Excuses will only lead to your doom.

If neeld was really trying to develop us, why hasn't he played Gysberts and cook.

I can assure you, powerful men who pumped hundreds of thousands into the club, successful business men that sack excuse based employees, would be talking to key mbers of the board and demanding answers.

I would be staggered if we have not had private crisis meetings behind closed doors. To accept this crap and look worse than ever is absolutely unjustifiable. Absolutely inexcusable, especially when our so called useless players have shown plenty of talent over the last few years.

I am afraid that the excuse makers who prevail on this site may actual give strength to an assistant coach and his old game style.

The hawks looked brilliant.

Interesting you bring up Hawthorn and Clarkson. In his first season the Hawks finished bottom four and he got roundly pilloried for changing the club's playing style.

How does that fact grab ya?

It's funny how every 3-4 years Demonland turns into a cesspool of excuses and people of faith.

This club is truly awful.

I certainly think Neeld should be held responsible, but then again Clarkson was awful in his first year at Hawthorn. Thompson didn't have especially awesome first few years at Geelong.

Patience is key, but holy crap it's hard when you go for Melbourne. The problem is that you're always waiting for the same thing, and so the excuses are always the same. It's hard to accept these excuses over and over again, but when it's all there is, and a harsh reality, all you can do is shrug your shoulders, move on and hope for the best.

Harsh reality, folks.

If neeld was really trying to develop us, why hasn't he played Gysberts and cook.

Did you see Cook play yesterday and you want him played in the seniors? Did we not partly get into this by "getting games into kids"?

Hawthorn were fantastic and played like a mature bodied side who have been learning a game style for some time.

Clarksons first year in 2005 was much much better than neelds first year.

Hawthorn beat essendon on 2 occasions, beat Melbourne, smashed Brisbane, beat Fremantle in Fremantle and beat the blues.

Hawthorn in 2005 really lacked class players yet they only had 1 belting and the other losses were 'manageable'.

Also, they came home with 2 wins in the last few games of the season.

Clarksons first year as coach is far better than neeld. Neelds performance is nothing short of disgraceful. One of our proven performers in moloney can't even find his feet.

Clarksons first year in 2005 was much much better than neelds first year.

Hawthorn beat essendon on 2 occasions, beat Melbourne, smashed Brisbane, beat Fremantle in Fremantle and beat the blues.

Hawthorn in 2005 really lacked class players yet they only had 1 belting and the other losses were 'manageable'.

Also, they came home with 2 wins in the last few games of the season.

Clarksons first year as coach is far better than neeld. Neelds performance is nothing short of disgraceful. One of our proven performers in moloney can't even find his feet.

You're reaching.

Clarkson was given time to stamp his mark on the club. As was Mark Thompson. As will Mark Neeld.

Will he be as successful as those two coaches? Who knows. Only time will tell and he will be given that time.

Well, your entitled to your opinion and it looks like we agree to disagree with each other.

Can I ask you a question? If malthouse or roos wanted to coach us in 2013, what would you say?

Malthouse yes , Roos No.

Well, your entitled to your opinion and it looks like we agree to disagree with each other.

Can I ask you a question? If malthouse or roos wanted to coach us in 2013, what would you say?

Sorry, I don't deal in fanciful hypotheticals. I'm on the reality bus.

Btw ... how did dual premiership coach Denis Pagan work out for Carlton circa 2003-07?

Clarkson was given time to stamp his mark on the club. As was Mark Thompson. As will Mark Neeld.

Will he be as successful as those two coaches? Who knows. Only time will tell and he will be given that time.

Can MFC, in it's current circumstances, afford to give Neeld as much time as Hawthorn & Geelong could? That's the problem. If it's going to take 3 or 4 years for Neeld's plan to bear fruit, can the club sustain itself until then? You might be able to, but can the whole membership?

For example, I doubt that we can afford to give Neeld the amount of time that Bailey was given - that was 3-4 years.

That's got to be a concern.

Can MFC, in it's current circumstances, afford to give Neeld as much time as Hawthorn & Geelong could? That's the problem. If it's going to take 3 or 4 years for Neeld's plan to bear fruit, can the club sustain itself until then? You might be able to, but can the whole membership?

For example, I doubt that we can afford to give Neeld the amount of time that Bailey was given - that was 3-4 years.

That's got to be a concern.

I agree, it's a real concern. Neeld walks a knife's edge between working to a reasonable timeframe ( 2-3 years) and overseeing some more immediate improvement in order to appease members. Toughest gig in footy at the moment. Which is why I like him ... because it requires a tough man to do it.

Really ... what could anyone do that would be different? There is no easy fix unfortunately.

Did anyone see the hawks play? Hard, tough, aggressive and kinda freestyle.

Mark neeld, slow, defensive, ineffective, structured.

No wonder democracy dosnt work, the sheep are leading the shepherds.

Excuses will only lead to your doom.

If Neeld was really trying to develop us, why hasn't he played Gysberts and Cook.

I can assure you, powerful men who pumped hundreds of thousands into the club, successful business men that sack excuse based employees, would be talking to key mbers of the board and demanding answers.

I would be staggered if we have not had private crisis meetings behind closed doors. To accept this crap and look worse than ever is absolutely unjustifiable. Absolutely inexcusable, especially when our so called useless players have shown plenty of talent over the last few years.

I am afraid that the excuse makers who prevail on this site may actual give strength to an assistant coach and his old game style.

The Hawks looked brilliant.

Gysberts has been injured all year - did you want Neeld to play him with a broken jaw?

You say the Hawks looked brilliant - go and have a look at their messageboards in 2005-06. It might give you some perspective.

Gysberts has had a bad run with injuries but I must admit I was shocked to see that he is just as skinny now as he was two years ago. Some have said that they have heard from the club that Neeld isnt big on either Gysberts or Cook. I guess at the end of the year we will know if that is true.

Ultimately we havent really had a chance to see what Neeld can do because across the board every player on our list other than Nathan Jones and Mitch Clark have had shockers - either because they never had enough talent or drive in the first place, because they have been pushed too hard in the preseason, dont get the game plan or are just woefully out of form - various reasons that have been given.

I think Neeld's biggest mistake this season is probably putting faith in a few players that have continually dissappointed. I wont name them and there is no need to. Also perhaps putting faith in players that are past their best to turn it around and perform.

I think most people that follow the Demons closely would suggest that anything less than a 10-12 player cull at seasons end (via dropping or trades for contracted players) would be a surprise.

One thing I dont get though is that for a side constructed to be a running, speedy, attacking 'bailey' style team - why are we so darn slow!!

Slow and/or lazy.

Yep Moloney 2nd or 3rd best and have another dig. How about don't come back next year no need for you.

its his opinion and l agree, l've been supporting this mob from the day l was born, have been a member with my daughter for 16 years and supported them for all my 47 years, l've seen the rubbish before in the 70's and early 80's but nothing like this pathetic bunch of losers

Ive been supporting since the 70s myself and I must admit that this season has been a lowlight.

Interesting you bring up Hawthorn and Clarkson. In his first season the Hawks finished bottom four and he got roundly pilloried for changing the club's playing style.

How does that fact grab ya?

Have a closer look at the hawks of 05. Firstly they won 5 games and lost 6 games under 15 points. We have won 1 game (GWS doesn't count) and no games lost under 15 points. Also their % was 83 not 63.

Give me hawks 05 season any day

The Hawthorn team of 2005 had the following players in it (year drafted in brackets):

- Hodge (2001)

- Mitchell (2001)

- Lewis (2005)

- Franklin (2005)

- Roughead (2005)

- Crawford (1992)

- Everitt (1992)

- Hay (1996)

- Croad (1997)

- Bateman (1999)

- Sewell (2003)

Specifically, their midfield had Hodge, Mitchell, Crawford, Sewell, Lewis, Bateman, and Everitt.

And, even with that midfield, they were still rubbish. Plus they had much better experienced players to help the kids.

Now look at our midfield and compare it. Look at our experienced players and compare it.

Have a closer look at the hawks of 05. Firstly they won 5 games and lost 6 games under 15 points. We have won 1 game (GWS doesn't count) and no games lost under 15 points. Also their % was 83 not 63.

Give me hawks 05 season any day

See Axis of Bob's post above

The team that beat us by 5 goals last week just scored 9 points in a half of football against Fremantle. At home.

FB: Rivers Frawley McDonald

HB: Watts ______ Grimes

W:_____ Jones Trengove

HF: Howe _____ ______

FF: ______ Clark _______

RR: Jamar _____ ______

I: McKenzie _____ _____ _____

These are the only blokes currently on our list who are up to AFL standard. It's a sad indictment on our club. it actually makes me feel sick

There is no point gilding the Lilly anymore. I have watched most games this season with and without our full list on the park. The standard is below what is expected for AFL.

I watched today's game against the Kangas. It was a woeful performance, and Sylvias work ethic was pathetic. Him and Beamer should be on the trade table full stop.

We don't have a midfield

We don't have speed

We don't have fitness despite recruiting a so called guru.

Frawley has gone backwards and not a patch on his AA season

Garland gets the yips far too much for his experience

The MFC either has to recruit players who will bring supporters to the game or die as a club. It is that bad, it really is!!

I will go around again next year but I will give it one more year.....in any language on this planet, this club cannot afford another year like this. The dark clouds are hovering. Recruiting has been a rolled gold mess.

Take a big deep breath. The sun will rise again and all will be ok. Agree it was a shocker and am also totally [censored] off. That's why I've wasted nearly an entire morning talking to guys that openly support MN in the hope it will rub off on me.

The team that beat us by 5 goals last week just scored 9 points in a half of football against Fremantle. At home.

Yes, if it hasn't been done already, someone should look at the stats as to how badly teams perform after playing in the sauna that is Darwin.

I thought Moloney was uninfluential today, despite what his stats said.

I will also agree that our brand of footy is almost unwatchable at present. We don't run hard, take little risk/reward and fail to win crucial one on one and contested ball situations.

Only our Melbourne team this year could create a turnover just outside the our F50 like we did today, and manage to not even come up with a scoring shot. We are woeful.

l've never seen a slower team

FB: Rivers Frawley McDonald

HB: Watts ______ Grimes

W:_____ Jones Trengove

HF: Howe _____ ______

FF: ______ Clark _______

RR: Jamar _____ ______

I: McKenzie _____ _____ _____

These are the only blokes currently on our list who are up to AFL standard. It's a sad indictment on our club. it actually makes me feel sick

Couldn't agree more. Neeld has a lot of tools to work with each week that's for sure.