On 27/07/2012 at 03:30, billy2803 said:

Tanking mk2012 or what ever bloody version we're up to??!!.

I know people will say that we're too bad to tank (or have to tank), but we cant' be "that" bad can we? We smashed GWS like "better" teams should, just as we will most likely do it to the GC and GWS when we play them again. High rewards at the end of the season if we finish 3rd last (we will get Viney with a 2nd round pick). We also activated BOTH our compo picks this year.

I have got a strong belief that this around the boundary/kick to a contest game is far from the style we will play in the future. It's almost risk management - what can we do in our "development year" to make sure it is not flogging after flogging? I know, let's kick to the boundary and waste as much time playing nothing but contested ball. Nb. Please be kind to me about this paragraph - I neeeeed something to think about this team in a positive manner!

Back on topic - I'm yet to see anything that suggests to me that Gysberts will be a long term player for the MFC. I have stated it for around 18 months now, continually being shot down, now some are starting to see what I have been concerned about.

So his phenominal clearance work against Geelong / Carlton / Collingwood in his 1st 3 games before suffering a season ending back injury was nothing?

His good form in 2011 before suffering a late season injury was nothing?

With an engine and some size, this kid could be an absolute ripper

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:19, Viney12 said:

So his phenominal clearance work against Geelong / Carlton / Collingwood in his 1st 3 games before suffering a season ending back injury was nothing?

His good form in 2011 before suffering a late season injury was nothing?

With an engine and some size, this kid could be an absolute ripper

Key word there 'Could'

We see that word thrown around every year. I am waiting to see the word 'Is'.

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:43, olisik said:

Key word there 'Could'

We see that word thrown around every year. I am waiting to see the word 'Is'.

But he HAS proven himself capable, and against good opposition

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:46, Viney12 said:

But he HAS proven himself capable, and against good opposition

So had Petterd.....and Sylvia....and Green.....and Davey....

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:43, olisik said:

Key word there 'Could'

We see that word thrown around every year. I am waiting to see the word 'Is'.

Agree.

Gysberts, Trengove, Blease, Tapscott. Four players that need to look at where Jones has taken his game to and follow suit.

These guys must be stamping their mark on games in 2013. People talk about needing to draft in midfielders, that's all well and good but we'll also need to see dramatic improvement and consistency from ou 21-22yo's.

We will look a vastly different side if they can. C'mon lads ... apprenticeship time is over!

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:49, olisik said:

So had Petterd.....and Sylvia....and Green.....and Davey....

Chalk and cheese - Green / Davey have been good servants over a long period, but their time is drawing to an end

Sylvia has had 7 + years to prove his worth and hasn't done this CONSISTENTLY

Petterd has had a hand full of good games out of 50+

Gysberts has played under 20 games and has been stunted by injury

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:53, Range Rover said:

Agree.

Gysberts, Trengove, Blease, Tapscott. Four players that need to look at where Jones has taken his game to and follow suit.

These guys must be stamping their mark on games in 2013. People talk about needing to draft in midfielders, that's all well and good but we'll also need to see dramatic improvement and consistency from ou 21-22yo's.

We will look a vastly different side if they can. C'mon lads ... apprenticeship time is over!

Aside from Trengove, you're surprised 3 guys who have been perenially injured haven't stamped their authority?

If Tappy, Blease and Gys have great pre-seasons and fizzle in 2013 then the argument has some merit

None of these kids has had a full run at preseason yet

  On 27/07/2012 at 07:06, Viney12 said:

Chalk and cheese - Green / Davey have been good servants over a long period, but their time is drawing to an end

Sylvia has had 7 + years to prove his worth and hasn't done this CONSISTENTLY

Petterd has had a hand full of good games out of 50+

Gysberts has played under 20 games and has been stunted by injury

Aside from Trengove, you're surprised 3 guys who have been perenially injured haven't stamped their authority?

If Tappy, Blease and Gys have great pre-seasons and fizzle in 2013 then the argument has some merit

None of these kids has had a full run at preseason yet

If you read what I wrote I said they must be setting themselves to stamp their authority on games in 2013.

Thus far - despite injuries - all have been underwhelming to varying degrees,

I don't rate Gysberts. There I said it.

Doesn't have the required work ethic, skill level or mentality to do better than Bate, Dunn or any other under achieving player Melbourne have drafted.

It's hilarious listening to the same clowns on this forum make excuse after excuse about certain players. The things I remember people saying about Bate, Morton, Mclean etc etc. Amazing.

To date he has done nothing to excite me.

  On 27/07/2012 at 10:49, stevethemanjordan said:

I don't rate Gysberts. There I said it.

Doesn't have the required work ethic, skill level or mentality to do better than Bate, Dunn or any other under achieving player Melbourne have drafted.

It's hilarious listening to the same clowns on this forum make excuse after excuse about certain players. The things I remember people saying about Bate, Morton, Mclean etc etc. Amazing.

To date he has done nothing to excite me.

You must be his shrink to have such intimate knowledge of his mental make-up .

I'm just watching Hawks tear Essndon a new one because the can all play football .Like Gysberts.

You are so wrong you're not worth the abuse .

  On 27/07/2012 at 10:52, Biffen said:

You must be his shrink to have such intimate knowledge of his mental make-up .

I'm just watching Hawks tear Essndon a new one because the can all play football .Like Gysberts.

You are so wrong you're not worth the abuse .

What do you mean 'play football'?

I have met the guy, so am guessing I have a head start there, yes.

Gysberts has a poor work ethic and mentality when on the field. Working hard does not, and did not come naturally to him before he was drafted. It's not an attribute he possessed

and that is why he was so far behind in the running throughout the pre season.

Nuff nuffs love talking about 'numbers' or 'possessions' and believe that because he had a few 'high possession' games within his first year, it means he will be a gun. Years later, threads like this begin

because some people start losing patience.

If we're talking numbers, Gysberts had a fair to good under 18's carnival. He seemingly found it quite easy to gain possessions, without having to try overly hard. There is your answer to why his mentality is and was poor before

we drafted him. He never really had to try hard. He simply got by with his ability to win the ball in close but I can tell you now he hasn't shown anything else. At least in my eyes he has shown nothing else to impress me.

I [censored] want players who can A ) Can efficiently kick and handball to team mates with or without pressure 8/9 times out of 10.

B ) Have a see ball get ball attitude.

Everything else after those two attributes can be improved upon and are therefore secondary. The MFC have drafted far too many players that are either missing one or both of those attributes upon arrival and then have to learn them at AFL level.

The reason Hawthorn are so good is because half their team are left footers and therefore have an unbelievable ability to hit targets with or without pressure. (Hawthorn deliberately drafted lefties for a few years as research suggested that on average, they have a higher kicking efficiency

than right footers). These same players seem to have an unnerving desire to win the ball. When you have that mix, you are more than likely going to be winning most games.

  On 27/07/2012 at 11:29, stevethemanjordan said:

What do you mean 'play football'?

I have met the guy, so am guessing I have a head start there, yes.

Gysberts has a poor work ethic and mentality when on the field. Working hard does not, and did not come naturally to him before he was drafted. It's not an attribute he possessed

and that is why he was so far behind in the running throughout the pre season.

Nuff nuffs love talking about 'numbers' or 'possessions' and believe that because he had a few 'high possession' games within his first year, it means he will be a gun. Years later, threads like this begin

because some people start losing patience.

If we're talking numbers, Gysberts had a fair to good under 18's carnival. He seemingly found it quite easy to gain possessions, without having to try overly hard. There is your answer to why his mentality is and was poor before

we drafted him. He never really had to try hard. He simply got by with his ability to win the ball in close but I can tell you now he hasn't shown anything else. At least in my eyes he has shown nothing else to impress me.

I [censored] want players who can A ) Can efficiently kick and handball to team mates with or without pressure 8/9 times out of 10.

B ) Have a see ball get ball attitude.

Everything else after those two attributes can be improved upon and are therefore secondary. The MFC have drafted far too many players that are either missing one or both of those attributes upon arrival and then have to learn them at AFL level.

The reason Hawthorn are so good is because half their team are left footers and therefore have an unbelievable ability to hit targets with or without pressure. (Hawthorn deliberately drafted lefties for a few years as research suggested that on average, they have a higher kicking efficiency

than right footers). These same players seem to have an unnerving desire to win the ball. When you have that mix, you are more than likely going to be winning most games.

Work ethic ,mental attitude ,defensive ability and all that can be taught.

Sometime a guy is just good at football and gets drafted for that reason .

He has just come back from a broken jaw and will play again this year with any luck.

Just because a kid has a rough year doesn't mean we get rid of him.

Gysberts is a huge talent and will be a big part of our future.

He is in no danger of being traded.Left footer or not.

So you met him ,does that mean you know him inside out?

I think both of you are right.

Gys is brave, but his skills need improving.

I see he can get the ball.

Poor trainer.

People talk about Gysberts skills not being very good. From memory he was ranked top, or within the top few at draft camp for kicking. Skills-wise he was top of his class. The fact he hasn't developed quickly enough due to injury or the club not developing yet another player to their potential is a different story. The fact is he HAS the skills. People saying he doesn't is wrong. If he can get fitter and stay injury free he could showcase those skills and become an elite midfielder. Only problem is he plays for Melbourne. We just can't seem to develop players, even the ones universally rated as literally the best in the country come draft time. It's quite sad.

He is the opposite to Cale Morton in terms of game style.

Gysberts has a good inside game - but no outside game.

Morton has a good outside game - but no inside game.

Throwing Gysberts into the AFL atm wont help his longevity one bit,

he is light on - too light - and with his contested style he would get smashed!

Personally I think we should leave him at Casey for the year, work his outside game,

defensive part of his game, let the kid bulk up over the pre-season and you'll have a far

more complete player come 2013.

  On 27/07/2012 at 06:53, Range Rover said:

Gysberts, Trengove, Blease, Tapscott. Four players that need to look at where Jones has taken his game to and follow suit.

These guys must be stamping their mark on games in 2013. People talk about needing to draft in midfielders, that's all well and good but we'll also need to see dramatic improvement and consistency from ou 21-22yo's.

We will look a vastly different side if they can. C'mon lads ... apprenticeship time is over!

Yes. Gys would be wise to chain himself to Jones and one or two others from October to March. Do the hard training they do. Build up his body and tank and learn, learn, learn off them.

He doesn't run and carry the footy but he can get the ball outside of congestion. His offensive spread can be pretty reasonable, it his defensive spread that is the issue.

He needs to get an AFL ready body because he can't play other positions as he doesn't have the speed to cover the ground, that said I'd be tempted to trial him as a half back flanker here and there in the AFL if the midfield is stocked.

The other thing we need is some patience. Yes we've had flops that we've waited years for them to do something but guys like Suckling and Savage weren't overnight sensations at the hawks, they took years building through the VFL. We are used to a system where 2 good vfl games gets you a spot in the seniors. Neeld isn't like that, he likes to build players up so they are really ready to play.

Gysberts is an inside mid who lacks size/strength and lacks fitness. So he can't burrow in and win the ball with overwhelming physicality (which he has to improve) and he doesn't keep up with the top midfielders and therefore can't just run around for a game. But they've been quiet a few of the 190cm midfield types who take a while to build up - I'm thinking Josh Kennedy and Jobe Watson. He has a skill in terms of good hands in close which we don't have a lot of, and he has an upside it terms of being able to get in and dirty whilst also being 190cm and hopefully pushing 90kg and running like a top mid in the not too distant future.

  On 27/07/2012 at 10:49, stevethemanjordan said:

I don't rate Gysberts. There I said it.

Doesn't have the required work ethic, skill level or mentality to do better than Bate, Dunn or any other under achieving player Melbourne have drafted.

It's hilarious listening to the same clowns on this forum make excuse after excuse about certain players. The things I remember people saying about Bate, Morton, Mclean etc etc. Amazing.

To date he has done nothing to excite me.

Then you obviously didn't see his first three games, before his run of injuries. Pity - you missed something exciting.

It amazes me that the so called experts on this forum can judge a player in 2 years of injury and lack of pre seasons

If I remember right....Jones was lambasted on this site as being to slow ...to predictable....and called a spud...and should have been traded/delisted....

Some people just don't get it.....It takes time to put the ground work into drafted players.....most draftees have played u/18's where defensive play does not exist and therefore have to learn a whole new regime in a very short time......And before you shoot me down there are exceptions to this.....but they are very few ........

I know we all want instant sucess....but it will come with development and patience....

Kennedy was traded to the Swans........Watson was almost delisted by Sheedy ...but both have improved to be elite footballers.....

Watching the Casey v Bendigo game a few weeks ago it was evident that at every stoppage he got his hands to the ball. Yes he has fitness and application deficiencies but he can get the ball in tight. If he improves his weaknesses he will be a good player.

  On 28/07/2012 at 00:51, Bossdog said:

It amazes me that the so called experts on this forum can judge a player in 2 years of injury and lack of pre seasons

If I remember right....Jones was lambasted on this site as being to slow ...to predictable....and called a spud...and should have been traded/delisted....

Some people just don't get it.....It takes time to put the ground work into drafted players.....most draftees have played u/18's where defensive play does not exist and therefore have to learn a whole new regime in a very short time......And before you shoot me down there are exceptions to this.....but they are very few ........

I know we all want instant sucess....but it will come with development and patience....

Kennedy was traded to the Swans........Watson was almost delisted by Sheedy ...but both have improved to be elite footballers.....

i love your take bossdog. we could do with a few more measured responses here. good one

I personally don't think he'll be a star, but Gysberts will be a handy player when he gets a consistent run at it. It all comes down to the fitness he can build in the next 2 years. Happy to keep him on the books until then at least.

He does has a high ball drop that gets him unstuck when kicking under pressure but can improve this over time.

In reality though, we are sorely lacking pacy, EXPLOSIVE midfielders. And that's not his thing.

  On 27/07/2012 at 01:14, Ben-Hur said:

It seems a long time ago that Bartel was shifted on to him in his debut game at Kardinia Park.

Pros: inside mid, tall, smart player who makes quick and clever give offs, can find the ball, OK mark

Cons: slow, poor endurance, weak upper body, below average kick, one sided, no elite skill or hurt factor, meanders around the ground

Conclusion ? Limited to playing an inside role where he can be very clever with his give-offs, will generally make good decisions. May improve his tank to an acceptable level and has been curtailed by injury. No real elite trait, but may become a solid B grader. Needs luck with his body and greater strength. Worth persisiting with, but the clock is ticking. Next year is a big one for him. Has some trade value.

I reckon the pros and cons read very similarly to Jobe Watson in his third year. He possesses the undervalued trait of just being able to rack up finding the pill (somethin we truly lack). Not saying he will be as good as Jobe but if he improves his size and engine he has oodles of upside.

Gysberts excited me early nearly as much as Scotty Thompson when he started so its been disappointing that he has struggled with injury and fitness. Ive watched him in three VFL games and in one he was great - very good at the contest. But he is still surprisingly skinny.

Jizzberts will get himself up and be apart of our midfield. David Mission...perhaps some extra 1 on 1 training seshions

Surely Gys has to play this week there can't be many left on the list who are fit and ready to go.