You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Switching the issue cos you're fighting for a losing argument?

This isnt about scapegoating anyone - it's an analysis of an individual player, where he's at and where he is going.

Nothing more.

If you want to analyse a different player, or the list as a whole, start a new thread.

Moloney is not being blamed for the team's poor record.

But he is being blamed for his own poor form.

It's not nasty - it is brutally honest.

Would you prefer we make excuses for him and tiptoe around issues?

Obviously you would.

Once again, where are these comments?

You've been invited to make intelligent discussion of where Moloney fits and can be influential going forward, but instead you're settling for weak unsubstantiated snipes.

You shouldn't take things too personally . My references to derogatory , insulting or demeaning remarks re Brent was directed at those who make them .

Edited July 14, 201213 yr by Macca

Got no idea what your talking about re Chapman and frankly , I'm not interested . Talk about Melbourne , Chook .

I like to put these 'Internet' comments into the real world .

Can you imagine what our Clubs attitude would be towards an employee or anybody involved with the club if that person was throwing insulting , derogatory or demeaning comments towards a player ?

I provided a real world example of a player who told his team-mates plainly and simply that the way they were approaching the game was not good enough. I am still talking about Melbourne, since I'm relating an example of a player's brutal honesty (and the way it spurred his team into action) to our club, where for a very long time "bleeding red and blue" was seen to be enough.

I'm not defending anyone who wants to pot loyal Melbourne players, but I do think there is a place for harsh criticism of Moloney's performance this year. It is warranted.

I provided a real world example of a player who told his team-mates plainly and simply that the way they were approaching the game was not good enough. I am still talking about Melbourne, since I'm relating an example of a player's brutal honesty (and the way it spurred his team into action) to our club, where for a very long time "bleeding red and blue" was seen to be enough.

I'm not defending anyone who wants to pot loyal Melbourne players, but I do think there is a place for harsh criticism of Moloney's performance this year. It is warranted.

That 'Harsh' criticism is directed at Brent (on these threads) way more than anyone else on our list . That's the issue I'm on about . You would have to agree that we have a rather large number who are way down on form this year .

Re Chapman - if I take your story as true he directed his comments at his 'Team-mates' . Not at any one individual .

Edited July 14, 201213 yr by Macca

That 'Harsh' criticism is directed at Brent (on these threads) way more than anyone else on our list . That's the issue I'm on about .

Maybe. But you made the claim that most of the players at the club have the same specific deficiencies that Jose listed for Moloney. You were challenged on that, and invited to respond, but you haven't - or can't. I would suggest that your heart is getting the better of your head here.

That 'Harsh' criticism is directed at Brent (on these threads) way more than anyone else on our list .

What about the people who criticise Morton (soft), Trengove (slow), Bate (one-sided), Blease (selfish), Bennell (goes missing), Jamar (taps it to his feet), Sylvia (inconsistent), Green (past it), Davey (sook), and so on, and so on, and so on...

I've actually been surprised this year at how little Moloney has been criticised.

Maybe. But you made the claim that most of the players at the club have the same specific deficiencies that Jose listed for Moloney. You were challenged on that, and invited to respond, but you haven't - or can't. I would suggest that your heart is getting the better of your head here.

You need to go and read my post again . I had the word 'Somewhat' in there . So I never said that any one player had all the same deficiencies as Brent . Some have other deficiencies . Think Jose missed that word 'Somewhat' as well . Post #176 .

Edited July 14, 201213 yr by Macca

That 'Harsh' criticism is directed at Brent (on these threads) way more than anyone else on our list . That's the issue I'm on about . You would have to agree that we have a rather large number who are way down on form this year .

Re Chapman - if I take your story as true he directed his comments at his 'Team-mates' . Not at any one individual .

I tend to agree. Beamer is having a shocker this season but he has done a lot more for this club in past seasons than many others on our list who continue to run only on potential. it annoys me that he seems to often be targeted personally when if he is passed his best he has at least contributed for a few seasons in the past.

Theres an expression in the Trades...."Youre only as good as your last job "

in this instance Footy is a trade.

Football is about NOW

I tend to agree. Beamer is having a shocker this season but he has done a lot more for this club in past seasons than many others on our list who continue to run only on potential. it annoys me that he seems to often be targeted personally when if he is passed his best he has at least contributed for a few seasons in the past.

I don't think any have really attacked Beamer the person. I believe he would be a great fella.

But this is a footy forum & technically we're talking about the clubs professional tradesmen. If we not happy with their skills, then we talk about that. We may criticise they're work.

We may decide to use them in future, or Not use them again.

Explain your rationale, Jungle Dee( and anyone else for that matter) as to why he will be at another club next year?

I like Beamer! But I dont think he is upto the defensive side of the game plan.

I think his opponents are alot more damaging when they have the ball. And teams play on that every week.

I believe Beamer will get a better opportunity elsewhere and a longer contract. Maybe 2 years instead of 1.

He aint the only one though! We have many.

That's a terribly specific role, without actually saying what it is.

The right role against the right opposition?

I don't think we'll go far with a list of players who we can only rely on for very specific jobs against only certain clubs.

Surely to be worth keeping they should be versatile and allow us to dictate terms?

Do you care to divulge what these roles are?

Or do you not know? Because I can't see too many.

What is this mysterious valuable role?

I'm sorry but that's a very vague and hopeful analysis that leaves me with many more questions than answers.

Yeah youre right Jose

Its difficult for me to be specific coz I really only know what I see on Dland (which I value and appreciate) and the small time I get to actually see the side.

BUT to try and respond

I guess I am saying the value could be in the squad rather tahn the individual.

Jamar Spencer Fitzpatrick Martin Gawn are all specialist ruckmen but all have totally different attributes.

JUst speculate that all were at their maximum and fit would you play the one guy against Natinui and Ryder and against Cox and sandilands

AND then would you use a slow lumbering tap ruck if your game was built around opoen clearance and spread rather than congestion footy

Do we have the players in the squad to match it against the different styles of play being adopted by teams

MAybe I am being unrealistic but I do see the varying results of other teams realted to the different styles they play.

HAppy to continue discussion coz nt really sure where I am headed or the answers but perhaps I am positive and therefore hopeful that the coaches do know those valuable attributes.

I guess I am stimulated sometimes too much by the divergent discussions on Dland.

Out of the side again this week... The writing is in the wall/

Can't get a game in the weakest Melbourne side in years.

Will be gone at years end.

This is a real enditment on mark neeld.

Tore away his leadership role, stopped his mid year boxing school and couldn't teach him how to play a defensive game.

big loss for Melbourne and a huge win for whoever picks him up for next to nothing/

Mark neeld.... Melbourne supporters are no longer going to accept mediocrity.

Your writing will be on the wall after round 10 next year.

You have a dozen more games to prove yourself to the members otherwise your card will be stamped.

Out of the side again this week... The writing is in the wall/

Can't get a game in the weakest Melbourne side in years.

Will be gone at years end.

This is a real enditment on mark neeld.

Tore away his leadership role, stopped his mid year boxing school and couldn't teach him how to play a defensive game.

big loss for Melbourne and a huge win for whoever picks him up for next to nothing/

Mark neeld.... Melbourne supporters are no longer going to accept mediocrity.

Your writing will be on the wall after round 10 next year.

You have a dozen more games to prove yourself to the members otherwise your card will be stamped.

So it is Neelds fault? Everyone else's fault bar the individuals? How would you have handled the situation Bandi?

Out of the side again this week... The writing is in the wall/

Can't get a game in the weakest Melbourne side in years.

Will be gone at years end.

This is a real enditment on mark neeld.

Tore away his leadership role, stopped his mid year boxing school and couldn't teach him how to play a defensive game.

big loss for Melbourne and a huge win for whoever picks him up for next to nothing/

Mark neeld.... Melbourne supporters are no longer going to accept mediocrity.

Your writing will be on the wall after round 10 next year.

You have a dozen more games to prove yourself to the members otherwise your card will be stamped.

Moloney has sulked all year, is not playing defensively and is not finding the ball. Got a rocket last week. Did not respond well enough in the magoos.

Mediocrity would be to keep playing him.

Boak to Melbourne, Moloney to Port and potentially a pick thrown in as well.

Done deal.

Out of the side again this week... The writing is in the wall/

Can't get a game in the weakest Melbourne side in years.

Will be gone at years end.

This is a real enditment on mark neeld.

Tore away his leadership role, stopped his mid year boxing school and couldn't teach him how to play a defensive game.

big loss for Melbourne and a huge win for whoever picks him up for next to nothing/

Mark neeld.... Melbourne supporters are no longer going to accept mediocrity.

Your writing will be on the wall after round 10 next year.

You have a dozen more games to prove yourself to the members otherwise your card will be stamped.

Rubbish.

Moloney has to learn to play a differnet role & it's easier to learn @ Casey. hi noticed he's playing more inside with handball. this maybe the way they want him to perform.

Neelds not going anywhere.

This is a real enditment on mark neeld.

Tore away his leadership role, stopped his mid year boxing school and couldn't teach him how to play a defensive game.

Laughable opinion. Staggering how people can arrive at conclusions like this.

I tend to agree. Beamer is having a shocker this season but he has done a lot more for this club in past seasons than many others on our list who continue to run only on potential. it annoys me that he seems to often be targeted personally when if he is passed his best he has at least contributed for a few seasons in the past.

I have to agree with you Normy.Everyone has a bad year and since he won his Bluey he has had all the focus from other teams stoppers .Brent is a no-nonsense guy who has loved the club since he was a kid.We gain nothing by pouring sh!t on our servants .Neeld will get the most out of him and add strings to his bow .I think we may see a better Brent next year ,if he stays in Red and Blue.Misson is obviously working him pretty hard and his lack of pace can likely be attributed to the extra training for 2013.Form is temporary , class is pemanent .

He'll stay, and he'll bounce back next season.

The guy loves the Dees and will continue to try his guts out. Is likely struggling under the increased training load (he's been in the MFC system for too long!), should be fresh for 2013.

I think it will be interesting to see excactly what Moloney is made of.

Neelds obviously told him to go back to VFL and work on certain aspects of his game to improve. He could come back

an even better player and add something to the side. Or he could just sulk and then leave the club.

Either way I think the club will be better for it.

If you were for whatever reason to keep Beamer youd only possibly extend his current contract by a year to see if another preseason and a good think doesnt rejuvenate him.

Endangered species for sure

It's funny how a bloke can go from averaging 23 disposals to 16 and then be dropped and the coach be condemned for 'accepting mediocrity' for dropping him...

So Neeld is at fault for all the bad form of our players?

Is he responsible for the good form of Jones and Clark?

Or are individuals responsible for their own performance, desire, dedication and professionalism?

I would like to keep Beamer but I don't think we will sign up our long list of OOC players in a hurry (aside from Howe, Blease, and Jones).

Max Gawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.

Moloney and pick 13...to port for boak...Boom

Out of the side again this week... The writing is in the wall/

Can't get a game in the weakest Melbourne side in years.

Will be gone at years end.

This is a real enditment on mark neeld.

Tore away his leadership role, stopped his mid year boxing school and couldn't teach him how to play a defensive game.

big loss for Melbourne and a huge win for whoever picks him up for next to nothing/

Mark neeld.... Melbourne supporters are no longer going to accept mediocrity.

Your writing will be on the wall after round 10 next year.

You have a dozen more games to prove yourself to the members otherwise your card will be stamped.

Surely you shite stir and cannot be serious.

Moloney has been given ample chances by being kept in the team this year and has really only played ONE good game. Now he's been challenged to lift his game and at the same time has been given the opportunity to do it against (supposedly) inferior opponents in a league where he should shine.

How you arrived at blaming Neeld for this is beyond my comprehension.

Its all Neelds fault and if not then probably Watt's fault and if neither then it has to be the dreaded NSC !!!!

Its always someones but apparently hardly ever the player concerned'.