Actually, give me a life ban, this joint is stale. Too many yes men.

For the record I said the following;

No to bailey

No to neeld

Wines over toumpas

You all shot me down.

Ban me, please.

yes you are great, you were right, oh fore-seeing and all knowing predictor of the future, you.

I've got another statement for you,

'The best Philosophy wins'

Whether Roos 'free will' philosophy will reign supreme, is yet to be seen. But I think it is the premier philosophy.

There is a saying, "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

Only when he embraces THIS land as his home and not Greece, will he ever even have a chance of being credible.

wow... This is an amazingly ignorant post... I feel embarrassed reading it...

Getting back to Toumpa, I recall reading during the 2 pre seasons that he's done that he was regularly one of the most skilfull looking players in drills, match simulations and club matches. I've never been to a training session but it seems strange that he could stand out so much only to be lost during real games.

For those who regularly saw him over pre-season, were the rave reviews warranted?

I am not racist ...

Good to hear, because you even have your own site:

http://www.notracistbut.com/tagged/wtf

Ok, to be born in this country and claim to be Greek, wreaks of separatism and elitism. It is a delusion that is not grounded in reality.

Jimmy stynes can claim to be Irish, because he was born there, no problem. But people who are 1,2,3 & even forth generation Australian citizens, and still claim to be from another country, shows a sense of cultural arrogance, that they are better than us. Honestly, they believe they are better, many Isrealis have the same attitude. Funny that they don't make good team players. Very rare.

Most ethnicities that immigrate to this land, embrace this land as their own. It is funny how these ethnicities tend to make good footballers in character, durability and numbers per capita. Immigrants from Malta, Croatia, Italy, Germany and Ireland for example, are good examples of peoples who come here and encourage their children to embrace this land and it's culture. Not true of Greeks in general.

To be born here and say your from somewhere else. Wtf is that about? Separation, arrogance, elitism, Fear?

I am not racist, I just can't stand Patriots, even Aussie Patriots. We are all human and no one is better than anyone else based on the land they come from.

Those people that cling to their parents, grand parents or even great parents country of origin, and claim it as their own, separating themselves from their true origin of birth, tend to have weakness of character and do not make quality team players.

The great thing about Melbourne is the multi-culturalism, there is very little patriotism. When you come to Melbourne, you are melbournian, not friggin Greek.

End rant

Yes we are all human beings but human beings come with Stories, values, customs,language, food, art and ways of living that are so diverse. This is embedded into our family histories. We are not Homogeneous Empty vessels that you can pour in an identity that is made up of some Ideal Australian or Melbourne which we all need to conform to. We are a heterogeneous society encompassing a spectrum of madness to genius with all the points between.

Why do you have a problem with the concept of an Australian born person saying they are Greek, English or Irish of whatever? Acknowledgement of their family history is not a challenge it just a fact that makes up someones identity. The fact that they may be 3 or 4 generation moved does not change the fact that they are Greek or what ever. Its just like saying your Christian or Muslim or left handed. Your perception that this is elitist or separation is ironic because your saying that people need to be like this and they cant be like that or 2 things completely different they need to choose one way or the other. Oh and Arrogance is not a cultural characteristic arrogance is just one of the many fine human qualities that exist in all societies and in all cultures.

Ok, to be born in this country and claim to be Greek, wreaks of separatism and elitism. It is a delusion that is not grounded in reality.

Jimmy stynes can claim to be Irish, because he was born there, no problem. But people who are 1,2,3 & even forth generation Australian citizens, and still claim to be from another country, shows a sense of cultural arrogance, that they are better than us. Honestly, they believe they are better, many Isrealis have the same attitude. Funny that they don't make good team players. Very rare.

Most ethnicities that immigrate to this land, embrace this land as their own. It is funny how these ethnicities tend to make good footballers in character, durability and numbers per capita. Immigrants from Malta, Croatia, Italy, Germany and Ireland for example, are good examples of peoples who come here and encourage their children to embrace this land and it's culture. Not true of Greeks in general.

To be born here and say your from somewhere else. Wtf is that about? Separation, arrogance, elitism, Fear?

I am not racist, I just can't stand Patriots, even Aussie Patriots. We are all human and no one is better than anyone else based on the land they come from.

Those people that cling to their parents, grand parents or even great parents country of origin, and claim it as their own, separating themselves from their true origin of birth, tend to have weakness of character and do not make quality team players.

The great thing about Melbourne is the multi-culturalism, there is very little patriotism. When you come to Melbourne, you are melbournian, not friggin Greek.

End rant

You are a blight on our great, Ausstralian Multi cultural country. The kid is an AFL Multi Cultural Ambassador. As is Bachar Houli, Lin Jong, Pat Karnezis and JOBE WATSON ( a great Australian) amongst others. They represent all that is good about our great country. I'm absolutely bewildered by your Rascist generalisation of immigrants, especially the Greeks. How can you be so mis guided and ignorant. You claim elitism by a young man doing great work in our community by going to schools, coaching young people from all over the world at the Dandy Rangers and reminding people that he is proud of his own Greek Heritage. Your projected anger at Toumpas demeans all that is good in this world and shows that no matter how many times we try to teach people like you to co exist, it sometimes is in vain. I hope you never procreate and expose any potential off spring to your foul, simplistic and abhorrent views. You are the epitome of a [censored] with a brain the size of a pea. By the way, I also am an Aussie of ethnic origin and refuse to put up with [censored] heads like you. I have fought my own battles at school and in the workplace against bigots like you until I realised just looking at your type with disdain and then laughing at you actually hurt you more.

Good footballers though, the Greeks

It takes enormous effort to teach a child who was born here that his real country of origin is in fact another place that he has never been.

Just stating that nationalities that embrace this land as their nation of origin, tend to make good footballers.

Other nationalities that live here but call another country home, tend to be very temperamental in character and no good footballers.

Just do the math.

I am generalising of course;

Chinese Aussies tend to call themselves Chinese. Footballers 1.

Israelis Aussies call themselves Israelis. Footballers 1.

Greeks have produced very few good footballers compared to their immigration rates.

If you are born here, Why cling to another nation? I don't understand.

I'm not racist, I just hate patriots.

Nothing to do with religion, or skin color, only the flag you drape over yourself while you born and bred in this country.

When in Rome.......

Actually, give me a life ban, this joint is stale. Too many yes men.

For the record I said the following;

No to bailey

No to neeld

Wines over toumpas

You all shot me down.

Ban me, please.

I'm not going to ban you, but you have been shown the door enough times to know where it is. Close it behind you please, it's cold out there.

You are a blight on our great, Ausstralian Multi cultural country. The kid is an AFL Multi Cultural Ambassador. As is Bachar Houli, Lin Jong, Pat Karnezis and JOBE WATSON ( a great Australian) amongst others. They represent all that is good about our great country. I'm absolutely bewildered by your Rascist generalisation of immigrants, especially the Greeks. How can you be so mis guided and ignorant. You claim elitism by a young man doing great work in our community by going to schools, coaching young people from all over the world at the Dandy Rangers and reminding people that he is proud of his own Greek Heritage. Your projected anger at Toumpas demeans all that is good in this world and shows that no matter how many times we try to teach people like you to co exist, it sometimes is in vain. I hope you never procreate and expose any potential off spring to your foul, simplistic and abhorrent views. You are the epitome of a [censored] with a brain the size of a pea. By the way, I also am an Aussie of ethnic origin and refuse to put up with [censored] heads like you. I have fought my own battles at school and in the workplace against bigots like you until I realised just looking at your type with disdain and then laughing at you actually hurt you more.

My parents where not born here. It makes me sick that certain relatives identify with a distant culture, rather than embracing this culture, refine it and make it better.

I probably know better than most about the Greek mentality, an I can tell you, clinging to distant memories serves no purpose but separation and disdain.

So, in conclusion, if Australia were invaded by a foreign nation, and certain citizens chose to fight for the aggressors based on a distant cultural heritage, is that acceptable?

Where you lay your hat, should be your home.

My parents where not born here. It makes me sick that certain relatives identify with a distant culture, rather than embracing this culture, refine it and make it better.

I probably know better than most about the Greek mentality, an I can tell you, clinging to distant memories serves no purpose but separation and disdain.

So, in conclusion, if Australia were invaded by a foreign nation, and certain citizens chose to fight for the aggressors based on a distant cultural heritage, is that acceptable?

Where you lay your hat, should be your home.

There is actually a certainly actuality and honesty about this. The subtle difference between a Greek Australian and an Aussie Greek is lost on many.

Im from predominantly English stock, my dad still followed the Poms in Cricket where as I the Aussies. Won many beers through this too ( thanks dad )

This whole discussion though would be better situated in the General Discussions forum I suspect.

Meanwhile theres some bloke Jimmy-Dimitri , plays for us apparently. Would think hes standing at the crossroads wrt to this club.

An element to all of this is the FD will need ( and probably does ) to evaluate the nature of the value of quite a few of our list. Are they the types to persevere with, or is there a more immediate return at trade time.

I often describe the analogy of a series of moving walkways...as you proceed along them the speed varies as you move from one juncture to another. Sometime you have to switch to another in order to keep the momentum , or you fall behind.

Id be entertaining serious offers for the Toump because Im more interested in how the club fares than a particular individual

My parents where not born here. It makes me sick that certain relatives identify with a distant culture, rather than embracing this culture, refine it and make it better.

You can't identify with both ?

You can't identify with both ?

I've been here for 37 years. I went there for 2 months.

Nice place, good food, but it is only a distant relative.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm indigenous to this land, I know no other land. This is my home and the greatest place on the planet. Many people think otherwise, and I think they should challenged.

It's all in the hips.

Well...

We just don't have any luck with pick 4 do we?

Had such high hopes. Damn you Mark Neeld.

We just don't have any luck with pick 4 do we?

The positive is we don't have pick 4 this year and hopefully won't for many years to come!

Getting back to Toumpa, I recall reading during the 2 pre seasons that he's done that he was regularly one of the most skilfull looking players in drills, match simulations and club matches. I've never been to a training session but it seems strange that he could stand out so much only to be lost during real games.

For those who regularly saw him over pre-season, were the rave reviews warranted?

I remember reading various reports that Toumpas was one of our best trainers over the pre-season. Obviously its better to be a good trainer - than to be a poor trainer. But being a trainer doesn't necessarily translate into being a good footballer. And in Toumpas case it hasn't translated at all. Training is just one aspect of what it takes to be a good footballer.

Truly bizarre what happened with him. It wasn't a left field selection at all, in fact most believed even at pick #4 we got one of the steals of the draft. He was meant to be pacy and a readymade jet. We pretty much never saw that at AFL level and he wasn't even showing himself to be too good for the VFL in his time here.

Going back to his draft night I've never seen a kid as excited to be drafted by us. He won me over pretty quickly by that. His career didn't work out but I wish him all the best.