Deers is right, we dont need more run of the mill mid-fielders, we have plenty of these already. We need something a cut above this, and our best chance is to get this from the Draft.

With our new regimes in place, I think we will develop players alot better then we have in the past.

Either way we will get what we need to finish the puzzle , another topline midfielder to compliment Viney.

Whether it be, Boak, Beams ,Stringer....i beleive we will snag one of these players...then watch out!

I would probably prefer a mature bodied player, who can double as a leader on field.

I am now completely over Scully and very content with what we have.

Viney already gets enough pats on the back as it is.

would be a great pick imo he is a great player

would be a great pick imo he is a great player

What makes him so great....??

We should not get rid of our first pick, mid first round for Boak, ok I'll go with that, anything in top 10, no way.

I personally would love to Take Beams and Cloak of the Pies.

Both are great players, but more importantly it would [censored] off Eddie!

I personally would love to Take Beams and Cloak of the Pies.

Both are great players, but more importantly it would [censored] off Eddie!

PWWWWAAAAAH! We can only imagine that, one would be good, but both!!!!!!!!! PWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

I personally would love to Take Beams and Cloak of the Pies.

Both are great players, but more importantly it would [censored] off Eddie!

You're more concerned with personal agendas than meaningful footy issues ?

FIWMTH

Edited June 27, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

I like Boak - he contributes to winning games.

I like Cloke more - he wins games.

We shouldn't compromise our chances of getting a potential game-breaker in Jake Stringer (?) just to snag another decent run-of-the-mill midfielder. They grow on trees. Howe was pick 30-something and Magner came through the rookie draft.

I would not step over high draft picks in a very valuable round one selection pool for Beams or Boak.

So you're saying that Howe and Magner are equal to Boak? Wow. Don't get me wrong, I rate Howe, and think Magner will be those (reliable) "run of the mill players", but Boak is streets ahead of both those examples.

Boak would be in our top 2 or 3 midfielders as soon as he walked through the door. With a professional training regime from Misson and Neeld, he has a heck of a lot of upside.

I do question this "Cloke wins games" comment. Franklin wins games, I don't believe Cloke does. He relies on the ball getting down to him, then he has an impact. I honestly believe that Mitch can do everything we would be asking of Cloke, and Mitch is already on our list!

Pick 12 for Boak

Pick 12 for Boak

Agree pick 12 not 4. I know our recruiting has been poor to say the least but if you throw a crap load of darts at a dartboard eventually you will hit the bullseye. (I hope)

I think Boak is at least equivalent to Jones and I wouldn't trade Jones for pick 12. Yet pick 12 (possibly plus peripheral sweeteners) may be sufficient given the weaker trading positions of other clubs. So for me, Boak is a very good value target.

Franklin wins games, I don't believe Cloke does. I honestly believe that Mitch can do everything we would be asking of Cloke, and Mitch is already on our list!

Big strong 'All Australian' CHF's that kick 40+ goals a year don't win you games of football ? Good grief. Thanks for my first laugh of the day.

Then you say we've got Clark, so we don't need another one. Just think how many more flags Hawthorn would have won if they only had Dunstall and not Brereton. And how better off Brisbane would have been if they only had Lynch and not Bradshaw and Brown alongside him. How silly were they ?

Keep the laughs coming Billy.

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

To make this trade work I believe this is fair for all parties, swap first pick as it stands pick 4(assuming Pick 3 is used for Viney) for pick 5, and our pick 13ish. To swap a pick doesn't look like much but will guarentee Port the best South Australian in the Draft. Their is one club that can leap frog us all Western Bulldogs, as it stands today they will have Pick 6 and 7 in the draft, they offer pick 7 we would have to offer pick 4 and to me that is to high a price

Their is one club that can leap frog us all Western Bulldogs, as it stands today they will have Pick 6 and 7 in the draft, they offer pick 7 we would have to offer pick 4 and to me that is to high a price

Good point. But given the age of their list I suspect they'd be trying to load up on quality kids. I just can't see any club using a top 10 pick for Boak in this draft. I want him and I think he's a super player. But top 10 should be reserved for the Pendlebury type talents.

Then again the finances may dictate they can't afford to bottom out so trading picks for ready mades might be on the agenda. Destined to fail if thats the case.

Big strong 'All Australian' CHF's that kick 40+ goals a year don't win you games of football ? Good grief. Thanks for my first laugh of the day.

Then you say we've got Clark, so we don't need another one. Just think how many flags Hawthorn would have won if they only had Dunstall and not Brereton. And how better off Brisbane would have been if they only had Lynch and not Bradshaw and Brown alongside him. How silly were they ?

Keep the laughs coming Billy.

BH, your arrogance is tiring, and totally unjustified.

Cameron Mooney kicked 40+ a season on a number of occasions, I personally don't believe he's a match winner. Here you go again, setting bizarre benchmarks to prove your point (40+ goals a year to be a match winner, win the Rising Star award to be a star, next thing you will be doing is using super coach points to prove how crap a player is).

For the price we would have to pay for Cloke, I think we would be better investing that in to our midfield (Boak), given we have Clark who is more than capable of kicking 40+ a year (which elevates him to match winning status according to your criteria), and we also have Cook/Watts/Fitzpatrick/Martin who can play the 2nd tall forward role. I've done the 2 x tall forward thing to death, but what I will say is that those teams you mentioned, as well as the other premiers of recent time that you didn't, all have one thing in common - they had/have a topline midfield. Geelong has won 3 flags in 5 years, not once would I say their forward line (in particular their 2 talls) is of high quality, and with a match winner in it (Stevie J is a match winner, not Mooney/Hawkins/Pods/Nath Ablett). Would the Lions have 3 flags in a row if you left Brown and Lynch/Bradshaw there but took out Voss, Aker, Lappin, Black and Power?

Hope you can control your laughter after reading this post, as you will no doubt find it lacking understanding how football is played according to you.

One thing BH, I don't understand why you pick people up on their interpretation/definition of something. My opinion of what a match winner is is obviously different to yours. If you have Cloke as a match winner, then I think you are loose with your definition. FWIW, Pendles and Swan are match winners at Collingwood, that is all. It's like what/who you call a star, compared to what someone else does. I don't give a sh!t if you see football differently - how I see the game is pretty bloody accurate if you ask me. But remember one thing, there is no book to say how you see it is "it" and we all should do the same. Your posts would be so much more interesting if you would understand that what you are giving us is your opinion and not "how it is". But, I don't expect you to change, just as I won't.

Laugh away.

Who's talking about Cam Mooney ? He was very serviceable, but clearly wasn't a match winner. I'll let you in on a secret - Cloke is a far better footballer than Cam Mooney. I must have missed it when Cam Mooney became one of the game's highest paid players.

And of course you need an elite midfield to win a flag. Who would suggest otherwise ? The great teams in history had both areas covered.

Next you'll be telling me that it's harder for a KPP to play in the back-line than the forward-line.

Comedy gold, Billy. Keep it coming.

I'd say Mooney was at times a match-winner in the seasons where he did kick 40 goals, and in the main he wasn't required to be because Geelong's dominance had them well in front from very early on.

Often no single player could have been labelled the "match-winner" with the even contributions they had.

But even still, Mooney is the exception being presented as the rule.

You said, and I quote:

"Imo, Boak is a better player than Jones, or Moloney. Boak is yet to have an A grade year and his best year is not as good as Moloney's best year, but Boak has more upside and the potential to be an A grader. Boak is only 23 and played 100 games, so he's coming into his best years of footy. I envisage we'd get at least 7 very good years out of him, i.e. 24-30."

Perhaps you could have structured your text a little better? You discuss Jones and Moloney and insert an age reference all in the same small paragraph... so the misunderstanding on my part can possibly be attributed to both of us.

Ok, maybe "denigrating" was a poor word choice...

You have comprehension issues. Clearly when I mentioned Boak's age it was in reference to the amount of time he'd have left if Melbourne recruited him. I even said he'd have at least "7 very good years left, i.e. aged 24-30". How anyone could misread that paragraph is beyond me. Well done.

And definitely, not maybe.

Who's talking about Cam Mooney ? He was very serviceable, but clearly wasn't a match winner. I'll let you in on a secret - Cloke is a far better footballer than Cam Mooney. I must have missed it when Cam Mooney became one of the game's highest paid players.

And of course you need an elite midfield to win a flag. Who would suggest otherwise ? The great teams in history had both areas covered.

Next you'll be telling me that it's harder for a KPP to play in the back-line than the forward-line.

Comedy gold, Billy. Keep it coming.

Sorry, just presumed that your "AA, CHF kicking 40+ goals a season" benchmark meant that they qualify as a match winner. I provided an example of one that isn't, and there are many more out there.

To keep it simple, you think Cloke is a match winner, I don't think he is. You're not wrong, nor am I. It's a difference of opinion. I don't understand why my opinion is soooo laughable? Sometimes I do worry about you BH.

To make this trade work I believe this is fair for all parties, swap first pick as it stands pick 4(assuming Pick 3 is used for Viney) for pick 5, and our pick 13ish. To swap a pick doesn't look like much but will guarentee Port the best South Australian in the Draft. Their is one club that can leap frog us all Western Bulldogs, as it stands today they will have Pick 6 and 7 in the draft, they offer pick 7 we would have to offer pick 4 and to me that is to high a price

Plan A, B & C is get Boak willing to come to MFC. The trade can then be worked out because we can trump Geelong.

The doctor's trade plan is good - if pick 4 is too much and pick 13 not enough then 4 + 13 for Boak + 8 is a fair deal.

I think Billy deserves some defending here. Of the last 8 Premierships (Geelong x3, Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast, Sydney and Port Adelaide) only one of those could really be described as on the back of two dominant key forwards, with West Coast not having one at all. The common thread (with much fewer exceptions) is supremely talented and/or deep midfields.

Certainly up until the Brisbane Lions era it was far more common to share two dominant forwards, but even then, Brisbane, Essendon etc. all had great midfields. I think a sole gun forward is sufficent to get the job done if the midfield is good enough.

That's not to say two gun forwards isn't more desirable than one though!!

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by Radar Detector

Good point. But given the age of their list I suspect they'd be trying to load up on quality kids. I just can't see any club using a top 10 pick for Boak in this draft. I want him and I think he's a super player. But top 10 should be reserved for the Pendlebury type talents.

I don't know where I stand on the Boak situation because honestly I can't say I've noticed him enough to make a judgment - I have watched a decent amount of Port games though so maybe it is the fact he hasn't stood out that has me worried we might blow a top 4 pick on him.

With your comment above, I'd just like to say I think guys like Pendlebury are actually worth two top 10 picks (similar to the Judd deal) so given that maybe a top 10 pick for Boak is reasonable, He is ready to go, about to hit his prime, and is more of a certain bet than taking a kid who only has potential and will need a few development years before he hits his strides.

It is rather interesting to compare the methods of Neeld to Bailey though. The Bailey-era plan was to load up on as many kids through high draft picks as possible and build a team that way whereas Neeld seems more confident in being able to build a team through the trade table by poaching some key players from other clubs.

Boak and 3rd Rd pick for pick 12 and Blease or Strauss

Edited June 28, 201213 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

I think Billy deserves some defending here. Of the last 8 Premierships (Geelong x3, Collingwood, Hawthorn, West Coast, Sydney and Port Adelaide) only one of those could really be described as on the back of two dominant key forwards, with West Coast not having one at all. The common thread (with much fewer exceptions) is supremely talented and/or deep midfields.

Certainly up until the Brisbane Lions era it was far more common to share two dominant forwards, but even then, Brisbane, Essendon etc. all had great midfields. I think a sole gun forward is sufficent to get the job done if the midfield is good enough.

That's not to say two gun forwards isn't more desirable than one though!!

The key here is that there's not many around. Which makes the ones that are an even more valuable commodity. Ask the Bulldogs.

The way that the game has changed has made life difficult for key forwards. They're double teamed, there are rolling zones, space is defended, the forward press sucks them up the ground, etc. A dominant key forward won't guarantee anything, all a club can do is develop a list that gives them the best chance to compete for a flag. Nick Riewoldt played in 3 grand finals and isn't a premiership player, but he was instrumental in giving them a chance to compete.

Having a good midfield is a given.

I think we'd have to pay Cloke too much, so I've gone off the idea of getting him, but I appreciate the value that a dominant key forward provides.