Geelong have the Ablett compo, so they have 2 middle of the rung first rounders, both between say 13-16ish i imagine

... which is still behind our mid round pick

mid round compo pick for Boak sounds like a big win for mine

an even bigger win will be if as suggested we can secure a deal with GWS to get our hands on Viney with a 2nd round pick, but does anyone else here have that feeling that given goins on to date we might be wasting our breath seeking anything that may be of benefit to us from Sheeds and Co? and what would the deal look like, pick 4 for a 17 yo selection and a 'keep your grubby hands off Viney'?

The success of the club is a bigger factor then the 'happiness' of a few people

Yeah, because it is simple as that isn't it?

Todd works for us, and Jack is constantly around the club.

We would have to abandon them if we were to not match any bid from GWS and GC.

How about this reversal - the club is bigger than to split hairs on whether the tough-as-nails son of a Demon great is worth Pick 3 or Pick 6.

Edited June 27, 201213 yr by rpfc

Moloney may be no spring chicken, but Jones is just 6 months older than Boak, so I'm not sure why you include him in an age comparison. Statistically (going on an earlier post that cited Boak's stats), he is not so different to Jones and when you consider where we are at and where Port are at, it could be argued that Jones is out-performing Boak. It could equally be argued that Jones is trying to lead a very ordinary midfield at a young age.

I'm not arguing for or against getting Boak (although my preference would be for Beams), but please don't denigrate our players at his expense.

Age comparison ? Who said I was doing an age comparision ?

Explain to me how I'm "denigrating" a player by comparing him to another player ? Where was the "denigration" other than saying player 'a' is a better than player 'b' ?

I compared Boak to Jones and Moloney, because I was comparing him to our two most senior midfielders. I hold the view that Boak has more class and upside than Jones, although I agree that their output isn't dissimilar this year. If you put a poll up and asked neutral supporters to vote I suspect I know who'd win.

I do understand why some decent posters no longer waste their time arguing with minnows on these boards.

Yeah, because it is simple as that isn't it?

Todd works for us, and Jack is constantly around the club.

We would have to abandon them if we were to not match any bid from GWS and GC.

How about this reversal - the club is bigger than to split hairs on whether the tough-as-nails son of a Demon great is worth Pick 3 or Pick 6.

Indeed.

I do understand why some decent posters no longer waste their time arguing with minnows on these boards.

Do you include yourself in that?

You have stormed off to BF more than once...

You ride out the bad ones, ignore the insane ones, and try to poke fun at the misguided ones.

That's how I do it, that's how America does it, and it worked out well so far.

(Apologies to Iron Man fans)

Yeah, because it is simple as that isn't it?

Todd works for us, and Jack is constantly around the club.

We would have to abandon them if we were to not match any bid from GWS and GC.

How about this reversal - the club is bigger than to split hairs on whether the tough-as-nails son of a Demon great is worth Pick 3 or Pick 6.

This debate will go on for decades, I can see it already

A million things can happen, lets say Vineys OP gets the better of him and Lachie Whitfield goes on to win a brownlow. Imagine the amount of 'Cant beleive we chose Viney over Whitfield to keep his old man happy' threads there ll be.

Every possibility will be explored, its not as simple as saying 'we are taking him thats it' like what alot of posters here are saying at the moment. The club has even said themselves that they will only take him if suitable.

We will find out at the bidding table in a few months time the out-come. My guess is that GWS and GC wont risk it.

The thing with all these picks seems many want their cake and eat it too.

We WILL need to use picks to get good players/prospects. We cant do that and still have a handful of top picks left. JV will probably end up costing a higher pick than wed prefer.So be it...its for Viney ffs.

We could ztill bid for a Boak or similar and theres two marvelous additions to the midfield.

We'll still have another mid 1st round and early 2nd rounder to play with.

This isnt a bad result. If Viney drops rounder our second round pick we're laughing.

And every other club will be trying for their bdst outcome too. We cant all best each othrr !!!

Quality costs and we need to identify our priorities and spend accordingly.

If some of our players were that bloody good to ommand the trades some imagine then we'd probably want to keep them lol.

Boak should be worth our mid 1st pick. What he ends up costing a club might well be something different !!

Edited June 27, 201213 yr by belzebub59

My guess is that GWS and GC wont risk it.

My guess is that if they don't, we will do a deal including both clubs a few weeks later.

I'm not talking about money though, I'm talking about his value at the trade table which I think is nowhere near pick 4.

I agree, I wouldn't like to use pick (4) for Boak. I see it more Midround pick + something.

We really lost out not trying to do a deal with the Crows over the last 2 years to acquire Dangerfield. His speed would have been handy.

Boak's a different type but we need quality mids with mature bodies.

Anyone who was in Darwin when we won by a point in 2010 saw Boak put in a performance that no Melbourne mid is capable of. he is a very, very capable player who will evolve into one of the best mids in the game.

We won't have to part with pick 4 for him. That just doesn't happen anymore unless its Judd level. Particularly this year in a strong draft.

Beams is a potential head case - I wouldn't take the risk for a bloke with 20 good games on his CV.

Without wishing to sound like Bruce, you just get the feeling this October and November will define where we go in the next decade. Some hard decisions to be made on popular players. but if we're brave we might just fix up some of the mistakes Cameron and Prentergast made and have the chance to push for that elusive flag. If they get it wrong we're destined for another decade of what ifs.

The longer it goes on the more likely it seems to me that they will sacrifice Cloke to keep the others. I can see why we would look at Cloke but I don't think he's worth what he wants and agree about the affordability. I think we need key midfielders more, but we're coming up against that hard question of why would you want to come to Melbourne when you could stay at Collingwood and play finals?? Or go to Geelong and play finals?? That's going to be a hard thing to get around.

Yep, they'd rather lose a hungry Cloke than lose 2, or possibly 3 players.

What i do like about Boak and its not really in any stats column is he tends to have excellent vision and uses the ball to effect.

We do need ppl in the guts making good decisions as this invariably reults in an effective movement forward .

LOL every player that gets mentioned on here as a possible pick up gets put down by someone or another & that includes Mitch Clark

Age comparison ? Who said I was doing an age comparision ?

You said, and I quote:

"Imo, Boak is a better player than Jones, or Moloney. Boak is yet to have an A grade year and his best year is not as good as Moloney's best year, but Boak has more upside and the potential to be an A grader. Boak is only 23 and played 100 games, so he's coming into his best years of footy. I envisage we'd get at least 7 very good years out of him, i.e. 24-30."

Perhaps you could have structured your text a little better? You discuss Jones and Moloney and insert an age reference all in the same small paragraph... so the misunderstanding on my part can possibly be attributed to both of us.

Explain to me how I'm "denigrating" a player by comparing him to another player ? Where was the "denigration" other than saying player 'a' is a better than player 'b' ?

Ok, maybe "denigrating" was a poor word choice... but Jones has been performing at a similar, if not better, level than Boak and has been improving each year for the past three years... yet you boost Boak's stocks by citing his age and number of games, while it would seem these don't mean much when it comes to one of our own already possessing the same attributes.

I do understand why some decent posters no longer waste their time arguing with minnows on these boards.

Well, no-one is holding you here against your will... you are free to go off an post wherever you wish; you will no doubt discover however, that you are just another minnow in an ocean full of minnows.

Edited June 27, 201213 yr by hardtack

What i sense Neeld will be endeavouring to do is go get some "good" players to augment our good players. He wont spend for the very best as that isnt the Moneyball way. If we upgrade our so so or mediocre types for 'good' and develop our good into very good we could well end up with a pretty bloody good side......as they say a champion team not a team with a champion !!

What i sense Neeld will be endeavouring to do is go get some "good" players to augment our good players. He wont spend for the very best as that isnt the Moneyball way. If we upgrade our so so or mediocre types for 'good' and develop our good into very good we could well end up with a pretty bloody good side......as they say a champion team not a team with a champion !!

B59, please take the Moneyball DVD out of the DVD player, or step away from the TV for a little while!

Hey..im just a messenger ..Neeld is the one spruiking the mb ideology !!!

This debate will go on for decades, I can see it already

A million things can happen, lets say Vineys OP gets the better of him and Lachie Whitfield goes on to win a brownlow. Imagine the amount of 'Cant beleive we chose Viney over Whitfield to keep his old man happy' threads there ll be.

Every possibility will be explored, its not as simple as saying 'we are taking him thats it' like what alot of posters here are saying at the moment. The club has even said themselves that they will only take him if suitable.

We will find out at the bidding table in a few months time the out-come. My guess is that GWS and GC wont risk it.

Your theory is flawed-

If your scenario panned out- which it wont- but let's play make believe and think it does, then IF Viney wanted to come back to the MFC (which he won't), then how do you propose we get him?

He can't just signal his intentions to return "home". A deal would have to be done. GWS would make us pay EVERYTHING to get him back. But let's not stop there- Sheedy wouldn't let him come back. He would rather him go to the PSD and get nothing for him instead of us pulling one over him.

And he won't be able to come back to us until he's elligible for FA- which will be a while..

So it's a [censored] theory/debate, and you don't know how the draft works. And you underestimate the ultimate betrayal this would be to the Viney family. It would ruin any shred of culture we are trying to cultivate.

Ultimately GWS/GC would know we are going to pick Viney. My bet is that unless some kind of deal can be done GWS will bid for him anyway. It's in the senile old mans bones to be a cuniving [censored]!

Your theory is flawed-

If your scenario panned out- which it wont- but let's play make believe and think it does, then IF Viney wanted to come back to the MFC (which he won't), then how do you propose we get him?

He can't just signal his intentions to return "home". A deal would have to be done. GWS would make us pay EVERYTHING to get him back. But let's not stop there- Sheedy wouldn't let him come back. He would rather him go to the PSD and get nothing for him instead of us pulling one over him.

And he won't be able to come back to us until he's elligible for FA- which will be a while..

So it's a [censored] theory/debate, and you don't know how the draft works. And you underestimate the ultimate betrayal this would be to the Viney family. It would ruin any shred of culture we are trying to cultivate.

Ultimately GWS/GC would know we are going to pick Viney. My bet is that unless some kind of deal can be done GWS will bid for him anyway. It's in the senile old mans bones to be a cuniving [censored]!

Where did i say we would get him back after 2 years? your whole post is flawed as it is based on me saying something which i didn't. And I dont re-call having a scenario, in fact I said 'A million things can happen' and 'every possibility will be explored'

Read properly before quoting in future or is that to hard to do?

Well someone said we could get him back after 2 years. I didn't read all of your post, but my point still stands. one million things wont happen, one thing will- Viney will be wearing red and blue next year, at what number we take him with is what's in debate.

I understand the apprehension by some from a list management perspective that an offer of significant value may "uncoill" or "unravel" further down the track and present problems.

I have faith in the club and Tim Harrington's work carried out in the last two years or so, the juggling of contracts at various terms and different load scenarios, plus the true nature and analysis of the list - enables us to strike a deal or two. Ie Clark deal and in this case possibly a Boak like deal.

They knew back then that we possibly needed to recruit to fill holes and adapted accordingly. TH's job is the management of the list. If there's room been made for our club to propose an offer - such as $450-$500k per year - because there is a void of 'star quality' on our list....it's a definite green light from me.

Why do people talk about Beams like hes actually an option? In what way could we possible get him? Why would he leave Collingwood seriously

Why do people talk about Beams like hes actually an option? In what way could we possible get him? Why would he leave Collingwood seriously

because he is out of contract this year

because filth have salary cap issues and a number of unsigned potential top earners

not being FA a deal would have to be done with Filth+Beames and we hold a few aces

I like Boak - he contributes to winning games.

I like Cloke more - he wins games.

We shouldn't compromise our chances of getting a potential game-breaker in Jake Stringer (?) just to snag another decent run-of-the-mill midfielder. They grow on trees. Howe was pick 30-something and Magner came through the rookie draft.

I would not step over high draft picks in a very valuable round one selection pool for Beams or Boak.

Travis Boak:

Averages 22.4 disposals @ 64.3% efficiency.

Averages 3.2 marks, 3.7 clearances & 3.3 tackles per game.

For his disposal efficiency I rekon out mid first round pick would be enough, doesn't show enough at the moment to be an elite midfielder but a solid addition. Our midfield really needs more speed, gutt runners to improve our spread and players with high disposal efficiency to complement Moloney and Jones clearance work.