Win big, win ok, or tank

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

The last rebuild got derailed by the poaching of players and poor player management......

We lost:

Scully

Aussie

Maric

There are also some players that haven't come on as quickly as we'd like.....

All were/are a part of the future plans for this club....

If it was my choice, I'd choose to start again.... Tank, get picks 1, 2, 12 and Viney......

We should also look to free agency for some older players.....eg. Goddard, Stanton, Cloke etc

If we were to finish last, we'd have psd pick 1. Which could be used to offer/poach non free agents.....eg Sidebottom, Beams, Shuey, Gold Coast players....

Finish last and hold all the cards........re-rebuild complete

Yeah because our last re build was awesome. How many re build's will it take for some to realise that complete re builds don't automatically equal success? Sydney should be a the forefront of our minds when we think of rebuilds. Sydney will have had as many modern day grand final appearances as we would have had rebuilds. How about our core group of players begin to build a winning culture so when draftee's no matter what number they came 1 or 100 come to our club they know what is required of them to earn respect and a position in this great club. I've heard From Watts this year explaining he now understands what is required to play and prepare at AFL level. I would have hoped he would have found out from senior players on the his first day on the job what was required. I know I am banging on about Sydney but I do wonder what type of player Kieran Jack would be if he was at Melbourne or a older recruit like Ryce shaw. Sydney has something more valuable then draft picks or father son picks they have a standard and we do not. I believe we are on our way and I hope a player like Nathan Jones can be our version of Brett Kirk or a Bolton or even Paul Kelly. I'm not talking about on field as much but just pure leadership off field as well. Draft picks don't set a standard winning players in winning teams do.

[Tatu 416]

Who said anything about automatically equaling success?

Guess I'm more interested in whats on offer outside of 2012..... Being 1 and 9, does that to me.....

We don't have winning players or a winning team, we have draft picks.....

Edited June 18, 2012 by tatu

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Who said anything about automatically equaling success?

Guess I'm more interested in whats on offer outside of 2012..... Being 1 and 9, does that to me.....

We don't have winning players or a winning team, we have draft picks.....

Winning in 2012 will help us win more games in 2013. I can't see the great hope that is Jack Viney or any other draft pick piggy backing the whole MFC to a flag in 2013. I would like to see a new recruit come to a club who wants to and knows how to win, bust his butt to get a game and the offset of this is a better player in his first year. Or we could tank get more early draft picks parade them around like it's moomba and put all our faith in teenagers to win ourfirst modern day flag and then watch them succumb to inside and outside pressure and then languish at Casey for a while. Also we would have to put up with another Number one draft pick thread that lasts a century again.

[Tatu 416]

I can't see MFC winning the 2013 flag, regardless of draft picks or amount of wins from 2012....

I only want weak high draft pick players, that don't want to play for the jumper?Hahaha

I like moomba.......

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I can't see MFC winning the 2013 flag, regardless of draft picks or amount of wins from 2012....

I only want weak high draft pick players, that don't want to play for the jumper?Hahaha

I like moomba.......

Never been a moomba fan I get your point about getting more high draft picks but the point i'm trying to get across is if the draft picks can come into our team that demands busting your ass and winning games then we have a fair chance of winning something in the future for once. If we tank again and again then we have a team that holds its hopes on a few teenagers not the majority. We will win S.F.A with a tanking attitude.

[Tatu 416]

I don't think we ever tanked, we just couldn't win..... It's sad to think we were that bad, but we were that bad.... It the supporters that say we were tanking, to feel better about it.......

I doubt the team, will ever solely rely on the new draftees.... It's the supporters that hold the hopes on the new draftees, not the team....

I have faith that the new coaching group can install a winning culture, within the current group and the new draftees..... It is going to take along time....... I can't see finals for MFC, before 2014/2015......

So for now I want high draft picks, to do with what we please..... And Jack Viney in the second round.....

[baysidedave 246]

Putting the reality bus aside for a minute, what do we want from the rest of 2012?

l reckon we will get beaten this week, might win one more game, it's the worst Demon team l've ever seen and l've been supporting them all my life which is a long bloody time, including watching the shyte of the late 70's early 80's.

[Viney12 196]

I realise we won't win all 11, that's fanciful, but I absolutely want to win as many as we can from here on in

Don't care about the picks, I want wins, respect, credibilty and a winning culture

[rpfc 28,441]

And we still have moron pro-tankers on board. Go 'support' another team, will you?

Aside from tatu there is none.

The OPer started this thread because there is too much talk about the draft, not because there was talk about a desire to lose evident in Demonland.

There isn't.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with speculating about what might be in October and November while hoping we win games in June, July and August.

[PaulRB 6,363]

Just a slight correction: the OPer (me) started this thread because I felt that the potential riches on offer in the draft was seducing and compromising our desire to win now. See "Win them all" thread for the background discussion.

RPFC can't see it, therefore it does not exist.

At the moment about 40% of fans want us to lose games to improve our draft position. I suspect this is a reflection of their worries about the quality of our list and it's potential to take us to the holy grail...

Fair enough too.

Edited June 19, 2012 by PaulRB

[Guest]

I was once told you can never spend too much time reflecting on the past or dreaming of a future what may be as you will always be ignoring the right here and now. The team had no idea of the professionalism required to compete at the highest level because they were always reassured by fans and journalists from 2008 to 2010 that their time would come because of the high number of first round draft picks they had. It was implied that this would happen regardless of their application or desire to win. I think believing that success will come as par for the course shows a disgusting sense of entitlement. The world owes you nothing and the number of your selection in a draft is just that, a number. James Hird was pick number 90 in the 1991 draft. That number didn't determine whether or not he became a superstar did it?

Tanking again will be the death knell of this club. I can buy some of the arguments about Neale Daniher not playing enough kids but I think the real rot set into the club when it was just assumed they could lose and be rewarded in the long run for it. High draft picks are like the Newstart. It is support but what you choose to do with that support and the mindset you take when you recieve it will ultimately determine whether you are going to get back on your feet.

[rpfc 28,441]

Just a slight correction: the OPer (me) started this thread because I felt that the potential riches on offer in the draft was seducing and compromising our desire to win now. See "Win them all" thread for the background discussion.

RPFC can't see it, therefore it does not exist.

At the moment about 40% of fans want us to lose games to improve our draft position. I suspect this is a reflection of their worries about the quality of our list and it's potential to take us to the holy grail...

Fair enough too.

Those posters are answering your poorly made poll, PRB.

You ask what is the outcome they want to see - and your last line answers the question - finish 10th (meh), or finish with a draft hand that is incredible in both value and the fact it is not credible - there is no way we will finish below the expansion teams.

You have reacted to the increased focus on the draft - so what?

We are not relevant in 2012 so we look beyond that while still hoping for better form in the last 11 games.

It's not hard.

[PaulRB 6,363]

I love the way you state you position and view as the ONLY position and view...

I.e a poll you don't agree with the findings of, is "poorly made".

I.e. a result (finishing last max draft benefit) "is not credible" when it is in fact the ONLY result that the team could guarantee (I am not saying they should).

Your "realistic" outcome of 5-6 win in the second half of the season required a 500% increase in wins over first half of season. Yet a 200% increase on this (to reach 11 wins) is so ridiculous to be absurd.

I'm reacting to an increased focus on maximising our position in the draft which inevitably involves a minimising of our performance on the ground. The past coaches tenure was stained with this shite, and I hope our current one's won't be.

What's "not hard"?

[rpfc 28,441]

I'm reacting to an increased focus on maximising our position in the draft which inevitably involves a minimising of our performance on the ground. The past coaches tenure was stained with this shite, and I hope our current one's won't be.

Please show me the increased focus on this?

And you have to give me more than tatu in the thread you started.

I think you are tilting at windwills, and you should stop it now, lest Mark Stevens gets an idea for his next 'column.'

[PaulRB 6,363]

The base assumption in most of the draft or trade threads on the site is the assumption that we will remain 16th. I can point at the threads with this assumption if you like.

I believe we could do better than this, but am not sure we'd (fans and club) want to, given the reward for staying 16th.

I don't know what you mean with your Tatu reference. Are you talking about Fantasy Island? "The Plane! The Plane".

If Mark is reading, he could do well to write about the current system causing ambivalence in supporters about winning and the effect of this cognitive dissonance on our enjoyment of the footy...

And the AFL in it's unequalled wisdom reacted to the taint of tanking by adding compo picks tied to ladder position.

It's not only MFC fans suffering from this push-me pull-you rubbish, nor only us fighting the temptation to better our position. GWS and GC are engaged in a race of their own... previously known as the wooden spoon (although golden spoon would be more apt).

Edited June 19, 2012 by PaulRB

[rpfc 28,441]

The base assumption in most of the draft or trade threads on the site is the assumption that we will remain 16th. I can point at the threads with this assumption if you like.

I believe we could do better than this, but am not sure we'd (fans and club) want to, given the reward for staying 16th.

I don't know what you mean with your Tatu reference. Are you talking about Fantasy Island? "The Plane! The Plane".

If Mark is reading, he could do well to write about the current system causing ambivalence in supporters about winning and the effect of this cognitive dissonance on our enjoyment of the footy...

And the AFL in it's unequalled wisdom reacted to the taint of tanking by adding compo picks tied to ladder position.

It's not only MFC fans suffering from this push-me pull-you rubbish, nor only us fighting the temptation to better our position. GWS and GC are engaged in a race of their own... previously known as the wooden spoon (although golden spoon would be more apt).

tatu is a poster.

I am more than convinced we can win 5 games more, but all the Lions and Port would have to do stay on top of us in that event would be to win 2 games.

I don't think we will remain 16th because I want to finish 16th.

I think we will remain 16th because I have had a look at the ladder (the ladder predictor on the AFL website is useful tool - http://www.afl.com.au/bailey%20ladder%20predictor/tabid/13046/default.aspx) and have found it extremly difficult to see us finishing anywhere other than 16th.

[PaulRB 6,363]

Poor Tatu, held in such low esteem.

As you pointed out in your "The second half draw" thread, your prediction is not relevant here (as my want 11 wins is not relevant there), what you want to happen, is.

And the system tempts us with high draft picks while admonishing us for considering them.

[DeeZee 7,397]

Been down the tanking track.....did more harm than good....Win at all costs.

[Tatu 416]

Aside from tatu there is none.

there is at least another 10 votes, in this poll beside mine.......

Poor Tatu, held in such low esteem.

lol......hahaha....wouldn't be the first time.....

[rpfc 28,441]

there is at least another 10 votes, in this poll beside mine.......

lol......hahaha....wouldn't be the first time.....

The poll does not explicitly ask if people want us to tank, only which outcome they would prefer. They might want the players over 22 to fight an interstellar war, which will mean GC and GWS win games while we struggle with Jones, Clark, and Magner fighting the 'reapers' - a mysterious artificial life bent on destroying intelligent life.

And of course they would prefer a good draft hand to a few meaningless wins.

But we would have to tank again to avoid those wins and I don't think that there would be 5 people on this site that would hope we lose this Sunday and our remaining games to finish last.

[PaulRB 6,363]

the Poll title may have indicated some aspect of the zero wins option.

That said, as we know, there is no tanking in the AFL.

But, someone has to finish last.

Edited June 19, 2012 by PaulRB

[Romey 161]

Interesting to see what players these picks would have resulted in us getting in 2007.

Picks 8, 9, 12, 26 - Lachlan Henderson (Viney), Ben McEvoy, Cyril Rioli, Marlon Motlop

Picks 3, 4, 12, 22 - Masten (Viney), Callen Ward, Cyril Rioli, Scott Selwood

Picks 1, 2, 12, 20 - Kreuzer, Cotchin, Cyril Rioli, Tony Notte (Viney)

[AshaDasha 27]

Imagine if we organised a little plan with J Viney, for Melbourne to call GWS's buff during the draft so Viney has a little 2 year (Scullyesk) holiday at GWS and the Dees get picks 3+4, after that, he comes straight to Melbourne and gets handsomely rewarded.

I'm not sure if that could work even if Viney did accept that, but that just sounds like the sweetest revenge and perfect outcome to me.

[Carrot Top 947]

Aside from tatu there is none.

The OPer started this thread because there is too much talk about the draft, not because there was talk about a desire to lose evident in Demonland.

There isn't.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with speculating about what might be in October and November while hoping we win games in June, July and August.

Really? I count 15.

This is the poll question:

Eleven games to go, what would you prefer?

pre·fer

/priˈfər/

Verb:

• Like (one thing or person) better than another or others; tend to choose: "I prefer Venice to Rome".
  

As in "what would you like to happen?" not "what do you think will happen?"

I count 15 that would like us to not win another game this year. 15 so called Melbourne supporters. You can spin it how you want but I'd prefer they went and stunk up another club.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Carrot Top

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,842]

Win them all.

But If we lose the next 4 games, I'll then be on the tank bandwagon.

May as well make the most of a horrible season by getting picks 1, 2, 13ish, and Jack Viney.