Some people aren't happy that the tree has got stronger roots, and buds may be just forming. They want showy flowers, and they want them now, out of season. So they want to chop it down and plant another one, again.

Like the avatar maurie. And it's a good analogy.

Decent and good understanding post Redleg.

We, at the moment, have cleared our debt, put a large amount of cash into the football dept(for the first time in God knows how long)

We have revamped our football dept

This is a result of the board and the admin(People who run the club)

You forgot one group - the supporters.

0-9.

Irrelevant in the bigger picture.

Mike you are running out of things to write!

No doubt that we should be looking to replace CS in due course & its about good planning but to say we need sweeping changes is carzy!

Our whole footy dept has had a massive injection of new support staff whos experience in a premiership environment is evident! Neeld,Mission,Brown etc all this made possible due to commercial balance sheet improvements. Throw in two new sponsors to replace that idiot who by the way 2 other sporting clubs sign too.

My only question is recruitment dept do we have the right people?

And probably 0 and 11.

But is it a symptom of what's wrong or a side-effect of the change for the better?

I think that is the crux of the argument and I believe the latter.

We won't win a game by firing Schwab, so we can wait until the end of season to make that decision.

I have never suggested that anyone should be sacked now rpfc.

But if at the end of 2012 we are 0 -22 or similar

What would your next move be?

IMO If we are 0 -22 or similar with an average losing margin of 10 goals that is a drastic situation it would probably be our worst yearly performance ever.

There is not another club in the competition that would not be calling for blood in that scenario.

IMO one of the reasons we have spent 48 years between drinks is because MFC members are too accepting.

When is it time to rock the boat?

I have never suggested that anyone should be sacked now rpfc.

But if at the end of 2012 we are 0 -22 or similar

What would your next move be?

IMO If we are 0 -22 or similar with an average losing margin of 10 goals that is a drastic situation it would probably be our worst yearly performance ever.

There is not another club in the competition that would not be calling for blood in that scenario.

IMO one of the reasons we have spent 48 years between drinks is because MFC members are too accepting.

When is it time to rock the boat?

I'm for sticking the course, rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. But if we are 0-222 at seasons end then its most def time to start rocking the boat. Conversely what if we end up with 5-6 wins will critics of Neeld and the rest of the coaching staff ease up a bit?

It is interesting how people view a football club. Stone broke but doing well on the field, to many that is great. Getting strong financially, securing the future of the club, but struggling on the field, many see that as a total failure.

I see it as follows, we have gone from a basket case off the field to a strong club, with assets, a new state of the art training base, a satellite training ground in a growing community, debt free, revamped football and coaching department and stable board.

On the ground under a new Coach we are struggling with an overrated list that is being asked to play and train a new way. The light at the end of the tunnel is a strong drafting position at years end, ability to chase a player, certainty of one good new player JV, ability to do some trading and overall revamp the list and another hard pre season to get the list fitter. Players who are not good enough will be gone, that appears certain.

Ok off the ground and poor on it with the chance to completely turn it around.

Not a fantastic position but could be far worse and still room for optimism for the future.

I won't be slashing my wrists for a while yet. I will give Neeld and Craig time to turn it around.

I know redleg we can "what if" all night but if we do not turn our on field performance around soon then our finiancial position will drop rapidly back to where it was 3 years ago.

When should I should draw a hot bath ?

"What we're going through now as a football team, as tough as it is and as challenging as it is, is just an essential part of what we need to do to build a base that will give us some chance."

What the bloody hell does that mean? That is genius rhetoric.

A brilliant mind is Schwab; not befitting football administration.

Dumfounded how so many of the loudest Demonlander's subscribe to bull of the ever changing grand master plan fantasy that will deliver us success whilst reality says we consistently suck so bad. Ostrichism is king on this forum. Stay tuned guys, the proverbial will hit the fan soon. I sometimes wonder if some of these are real fans or just agenda mongers.

I'm for sticking the course, rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. But if we are 0-222 at seasons end then its most def time to start rocking the boat. Conversely what if we end up with 5-6 wins will critics of Neeld and the rest of the coaching staff ease up a bit?

binman you will not find any criticism of the current FD by me.

It is too early to know if they are good or not.

IMO the majority of our problems lies with the players.

I have being saying elsewhere for over a year that we do not have the cattle.

We simply have a poor list.

The current board and GM gave us this list by supporting the wrong team.

It is their responsibility and they are the ones that have to take the blame.

PS I hope you are right with 5 - 6 wins but I am struggling with who they might be

Dumfounded how so many of the loudest Demonlander's subscribe to bull of the ever changing grand master plan fantasy that will deliver us success whilst reality says we consistently suck so bad. Ostrichism is king on this forum. Stay tuned guys, the proverbial will hit the fan soon. I sometimes wonder if some of these are real fans or just agenda mongers.

Why a new moniker ADC?

Same old story though. Schwab run over your cat or something?

Why a new moniker ADC?

Same old story though. Schwab run over your cat or something?

Whiteboard Wednesday lives.

Ostrichism is king on this forum.

You're right.

Ostrichism is believing yet another sacking will change the fortunes of the club, when it will just throw the club back into crisis after the groundwork for improvement has been done.

Ostrichism is believing we need to go back to the insipid football we have played for the last four years, when every team that has won a premiership this century is in the top 4 for defensive stats that matter.

Ostrichism is believing we can develop and mould an adequate game plan around our soft players, when the style of play required to win a premiership is hard, tough and non-negotiable.

Ostrichism is believing players ought to somehow just be able to 'enjoy' their football, when in reality winning requires fitness, effort and sacrifice for the team.

You're right.

Ostrichism is believing yet another sacking will change the fortunes of the club, when it will just throw the club back into crisis after the groundwork for improvement has been done.

Ostrichism is believing we need to go back to the insipid football we have played for the last four years, when every team that has won a premiership this century is in the top 4 for defensive stats that matter.

Ostrichism is believing we can develop and mould an adequate game plan around our soft players, when the style of play required to win a premiership is hard, tough and non-negotiable.

Ostrichism is believing players ought to somehow just be able to 'enjoy' their football, when in reality winning requires fitness, effort and sacrifice for the team.

Plus Skill

Something we are seriously lack

In my opinion we are struggling on-field because we embarked on a strategy of rebuilding by completely removing almost all senior players from a list, replacing with 'project player' draft picks and expecting the team to become successful simply by pumping games into players with little or no on-field leadership. Culling so many experienced players all at once left a void in leadership at the club which we are struggling to recover from. They may not have been star players but the over-eagnerness to turnover all of our list at once certainly hurt our build more than help it. Consider West Coast and St Kilda, both clubs had members of the media, supporters and senior members of their clubs screaming for them to play the kids and cut some players when they were struggling over the past coupe of years. Yet the very players many were arguing were past it (Quentin Lynch, Kerr, Embley, Gram, Milne, Koschitsche) are now leading them back into form on-field and are no doubt setting the standard at training.

Off-field we have just overhauled almost every facet of the FD and rushing to get rid of a CEO, Chairman and Members of the board would leave a similar void. Schwab, McClardy and Connolly may or may not be the best for the job, but I think knee-jerk reactions will do more damage than good. As redleg said stability is what we need right now and as for Schwab, when his contract is up at years end I am sure all members of the board will seriously consider alternatives.

In my opinion we are struggling on-field because we embarked on a strategy of rebuilding by completely removing almost all senior players from a list, replacing with 'project player' draft picks and expecting the team to become successful simply by pumping games into players with little or no on-field leadership. Culling so many experienced players all at once left a void in leadership at the club which we are struggling to recover from. They may not have been star players but the over-eagnerness to turnover all of our list at once certainly hurt our build more than help it. Consider West Coast and St Kilda, both clubs had members of the media, supporters and senior members of their clubs screaming for them to play the kids and cut some players when they were struggling over the past coupe of years. Yet the very players many were arguing were past it (Quentin Lynch, Kerr, Embley, Gram, Milne, Koschitsche) are now leading them back into form on-field and are no doubt setting the standard at training.

I'm not sure you are right on this. Unfortunately our senior players were not premiership players to the level of Kerr, Embley, Glass and Cox. They were not taking spots from kids because unfotunately for WC they were injured for a great deal of time. Getting that quartet back fully fit along with a new game plan and the development of their younger players puts them back in the game.

Get your collective heads out of the sand. Sheahan is spot on, and I don't even like him, one bit. He has hit the nail on the head!

Just remember Neeld emphatically stated the team would be playing far harder/tougher than last year. This simply has not happened. Even Neeld himself has stated that the on field individual "efforts" are nowhere near enough. Why not Mr Neeld? In reality we have gone massively backwards and the message to the players from the coaching staff is ??????????????

We all need to stop accepting this non effort, non performance stuff. We need to stop playing players because of their seniority or talent image. Casey should be getting lots of so called senior players including team leaders on their team regularly. One really bad game and you are out. A few self liking senior club employees need to walk too! A couple of these had a holiday over at Freo a few years back. Rack off you losers. Have some gonads and get out and do something where you actually contribute to a cause. And finally to the playing group. What a pathetic bunch of effortless games you have dished up so far!

And you keep saying to the supporters.........................................................................be patient, stick with us! Get real MFC.

Still Waiting:

Interests: long term Viability and Sustained Success.

Expectation: Immediately

Even if you had bothered to read the threads regarding the Senior Group meetings the club is having/arranging with various supporter groups you wouldn't want to consider that IN the interest of Long Term Viability and Sustained Success we need to look at holding the course that has been set by Neeld, Misson and the football department.

In my opinion we are struggling on-field because we embarked on a strategy of rebuilding by completely removing almost all senior players from a list, replacing with 'project player' draft picks and expecting the team to become successful simply by pumping games into players with little or no on-field leadership. Culling so many experienced players all at once left a void in leadership at the club which we are struggling to recover from. They may not have been star players but the over-eagnerness to turnover all of our list at once certainly hurt our build more than help it. Consider West Coast and St Kilda, both clubs had members of the media, supporters and senior members of their clubs screaming for them to play the kids and cut some players when they were struggling over the past coupe of years. Yet the very players many were arguing were past it (Quentin Lynch, Kerr, Embley, Gram, Milne, Koschitsche) are now leading them back into form on-field and are no doubt setting the standard at training.

Off-field we have just overhauled almost every facet of the FD and rushing to get rid of a CEO, Chairman and Members of the board would leave a similar void. Schwab, McClardy and Connolly may or may not be the best for the job, but I think knee-jerk reactions will do more damage than good. As redleg said stability is what we need right now and as for Schwab, when his contract is up at years end I am sure all members of the board will seriously consider alternatives.

I agree.

I would also like to add that having the worst midfield in the comp is a massive factor in our failure. If we could win more stoppages and be competitive at the clearances we would bring more players into the play which would help maintain our structures, which would put more pressure on the opposition, and gain us confidence across the field. I actually rate our team outside of its midfield. Our midfield is VFL standard. In my opinion the very poor midfield and lack of senior players are 99% of the problem. Both these things can be rectified in the off season.

After going to a supporter night earlier in the week and taking the emotion out of my opinion, I would like to take back some of my earlier rants. At this point I give my support to the administration, coach and players. Argus, Schwab and Neeld were all very impressive.

In my opinion we are struggling on-field because we embarked on a strategy of rebuilding by completely removing almost all senior players from a list, replacing with 'project player' draft picks and expecting the team to become successful simply by pumping games into players with little or no on-field leadership. Culling so many experienced players all at once left a void in leadership at the club which we are struggling to recover from. They may not have been star players but the over-eagnerness to turnover all of our list at once certainly hurt our build more than help it. Consider West Coast and St Kilda, both clubs had members of the media, supporters and senior members of their clubs screaming for them to play the kids and cut some players when they were struggling over the past coupe of years. Yet the very players many were arguing were past it (Quentin Lynch, Kerr, Embley, Gram, Milne, Koschitsche) are now leading them back into form on-field and are no doubt setting the standard at training.

This is a really good point and I for one, didn't see the dearth of leadership until 2011. And while we never had near the leaders (nor the talent in those leaders) at WCE, I wonder whether we could have looked at bringing in some old hands from elsewhere to compensate.

I guess the club thought some were more capable than they turned out, and it led us to here.

It certainly is a lesson learned for me - you can't assume people are ready for a burden they don't know, and don't think that youth is the answer in-and-of-itself. It rarely is.

This is a really good point and I for one, didn't see the dearth of leadership until 2011. And while we never had near the leaders (nor the talent in those leaders) at WCE, I wonder whether we could have looked at bringing in some old hands from elsewhere to compensate.

I guess the club thought some were more capable than they turned out, and it led us to here.

It certainly is a lesson learned for me - you can't assume people are ready for a burden they don't know, and don't think that youth is the answer in-and-of-itself. It rarely is.

We should have gone Hell for leather on Luke Ball when the rare opportunity was there.

What do you propose that we should have done about the problem of Ball not wanting a bar of us?

What do you propose that we should have done about the problem of Ball not wanting a bar of us?

Luke would have gotten over that in 2 minutes.

I refuse to let players from other teams dictate our recruitment - I said that at the time, and I will say that again.

The best place for anyone is at the Dees, because rpfc says so.

What do you propose that we should have done about the problem of Ball not wanting a bar of us?

He is a professional footballer. He would have played.

Lift ya head Nasher. Time this club believed in itself.

Culling so many experienced players all at once left a void in leadership at the club which we are struggling to recover from. They may not have been star players but the over-eagnerness to turnover all of our list at once certainly hurt our build more than help it.

I think the issue is not just whether they were experienced players, but whether in fact they offered adequate leadership.

We could have kept James McDonald for one or two more years. That would certainly have left less of a leadership void (but at the cost of a new recruit like Tom McDonald or Troy Davis). As for the rest of the recently departed players, I just don't know what leadership was there. Cameron Bruce? Who was a good leader among journeyman players like Warnock, Paul Johnson, Miller, Cheney and Simon Buckley? All the res tof the departed are even worse. And certainly not Nathan Carroll.

When he came in, Neeld was faced with a dilemma: either accept the modest leadership credentials but greater experience of the remaining senior players (e.g. Green, Moloney, Sylvia, Davey) or make a 'break' and give young players that were showing strong leadership potential the nod (with all the inexperience, pressure and accelerated learning that entails).

Like any dilemma, you have to seize one of the horns, and while there are certainly some arguments for players like Green and Moloney, Neeld chose the second option as the better long-term proposition. Like everything else at the moment, we just have to back him on the decision.