Thursday May 17th - Jurrah-dgment Day

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Andew Lovett was charged with rape.....Sacked by his footy club......Proven to be innocent.....Lost to AFL football by others opinions.......

Proven not guilty. Its different to being proven innocent.

He was lost to football because of history of off field matters at 2 clubs.

Yes, I get the feeling that they will have a lot of trouble finding reliable witnesses, and as time passes, witness accounts will no doubt become less clear.

The question has to be asked, on what basis were these additional four charges made? If they are "serious", why is it that they have only just come to light and why weren't they applied at the time of the original charges being laid... I would think any account of an incident that happened roughly three months ago leading to further charges, must surely be questionable.

There will have been witness statements and other evidence. Witnesses only have to speak to those statements which are the basis of the charges laid.I would think that if the case is held within the next 12 months then the recollections should be reasonably clear. It happens in other cases. Its up to the defence counsel to pull them apart. The difficulty is that there were a number of witnesses whose evidence is discredited.

The other charges may have been pending information that has just been determined to be worthy or sufficient to go to Court for trial.

[daisycutter 29,738]

is it wrong to reject "eye for an eye" retribution in any shape or form in any culture, race or creed. Does the rejection of corporal or capital punishment make one white and elitist ?

Ah, simply rejecting it is a different argument to calling it irrational, improper and absurd. you've moved the goalposts slightly nutbean

In a simple, traditional, nomadic, small community lifestyle with few personal possessions and no currency, punishment options for serious offenses to traditional law are somewhat limited.

That's not meant to be a support statement but just to say that 'payback' penalties are not necessarily "irrational" or "absurd" in that context

The problem now is transitioning from "then" to "now" - from what you understand to what someone alien imposes on you

You don't achieve that transition by belittling a tradition that was accepted and worked (for them) since the start of time

[Redleg 41,431]

IMO the best thing for all concerned is that this thread should be locked until the conclusion of the hearing.

[rpfc 28,777]

of course from "our" perspective we probably agree on what is "rational", "proper", "moral" etc

but that is within the society we choose to live within and believe in

I was just objecting to your describing someone else's society as "irrational", "improper" and "absurd" when they live in a different belief system

It's also not true of you to say that "payback" perpetuates violence. In fact it is (or was) generally the opposite as it puts an end to it.

what you are seeing with violence being perpetuated is that "payback" law is not being respected or concluded and is being "adulterated" with "white fella" law, leading to this all round unsatisfying situation.

Of course all this is further complicated because remote communities don't really live in a fully traditional lifestyle and are stuck with a foot somewhat in both camps, with all the resultant tension, dislocation and discordance.

I'm not advocating "payback" law. I don't have any easy fixes, but I just thought it disingenuous of you to describe it in the terms you did

clear as mud?

My rational is not someone else's rational.

I don't have the answers.

What I am saying is that it is an antiquated notion of justice built around vengeance. And violence rarely settles violence, in many cases - it leads to more as the 'justice' that is meted out turns ugly and requires reverse 'justice'.

They need to get this sorted - that is the heart of my argument.

The point being rpfc is that the issues in remote areas of indigenous are comparable to the issues in world powers like the USA. Death by lethal injection or spear to the leg. I know what i would choose

That's not my point - my point is what I wrote.

Mate not try to pick a fight here but do you realise how.... White...Eliteist and arrogant your arguement sounds

My concern isn't as an outsider looking in and judging. My concern isn't as a racist looking down and hating.

It is a practice that is tearing apart communities and as someone who appreciates indigenous culture, my concern are for the young people caught in the middle.

I am arrogant, however.

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

IMO the best thing for all concerned is that this thread should be locked until the conclusion of the hearing.

Absolutley with some of the sensationalism on here, some, in fact many have NFI of the legal process and none of us have any idea of the incident, despite chinese rumours

[Whispering_Jack 30,660]

Yes, agree with Redleg.

It's a lockup.

This doesn't prevent discussion on Liam Jurrah the player or the adversity under which he's playing but I don't think it's appropriate to publicly discuss some of the matters on this thread.