Well talk about egg on my face. I was saying just yesterday how good beamer was for melbourne then i wake to this.Well the great thing about demonland is that today i can tell you all how much i think moloney is scully num 2. But im really worried free agency could hurt the MFC if we dont get our head out of the sand quick smart because players want to win and there is only so much you can take. Players like chipper who love the club but just are so sick of never winning could hurt us big time. MFC needs to start winning very soon forget tanking for more kids we need to start winning before this club is in big trouble

Bingo. Playing for draft picks will kill us.

IMO we the MFC has to start building our list the way the Sydney Swans do it. Sustained finals appearances.

Otherwise we are in grave danger.

Moloney is now 28. He turns 29 next February before the start of next season. This is his last chance at negotiating a decent contract because when players tick over 30, their value diminishes rapidly, particularly if changing clubs. His preference may be to stay and his heart may be with the Dees but if this is his last opportunity to obtain a decent contract for himself, then he would be mad not to compare his market value with us to what he may get elsewhere.

He is very much an old fashioned footballer and the modern way may see his decline accelerate quicker than others. He has the remainder of this season to maintain or increase his value to either stay, and have the club want him to stay, or go and maybe help a club to a flag - even as depth, just to taste finals, which he may feel won't happen in his time at Melbourne.

And for him that may be especially important given he was traded by Geelong just before their golden run.

Moloney is now 28. He turns 29 next February before the start of next season. This is his last chance at negotiating a decent contract because when players tick over 30, their value diminishes rapidly, particularly if changing clubs. His preference may be to stay and his heart may be with the Dees but if this is his last opportunity to obtain a decent contract for himself, then he would be mad not to compare his market value with us to what he may get elsewhere.

He is very much an old fashioned footballer and the modern way may see his decline accelerate quicker than others. He has the remainder of this season to maintain or increase his value to either stay, and have the club want him to stay, or go and maybe help a club to a flag - even as depth, just to taste finals, which he may feel won't happen in his time at Melbourne.

And for him that may be especially important given he was traded by Geelong just before their golden run.

Playing decent footy would help his cause. It is up to Beamer.

Our ruck back up is Max Gawn, a man coming off 2 knee reco's.

Spencer isn't up to it, Martin is only a back up and it remains to be seen if he's a good one at that and it's way too early to tell if Fitzpatrick can make it or not. Even if he does he might be more of a backup than a starting ruck.

I don't want to lose the one position we actually are competitive in and I don't want to weaken our midfield one bit considering it is a major struggle currently.

If you look at the better teams over the past 5 years they've generally brought ruckmen in:

Geelong: Ottens, Stephenson

Hawthorn: Hale, Skipper, McCauley

Collingwood: Jolly, Leigh Brown

St Kilda: King, Gardiner

Sydney: Ball, Jolly, Mumford, Seaby, Everitt

Mitch Clark could end up as our ruckman in the medium to long term.

It isnt beyond the realms of possibiity that we could get value from a decent state league ruckman and then develop our own.

Jamar has been average since 2011 - I'm not going to lose any sleep if he leaves but as stated before I hope he stays.

Could someone please show me where it's been confirmed Jamar's talks are on hold?

Would suspect Moloney is on the way out given the new focus at the club and at 29, is the club going into a bidding war on Jamar?

Would suspect Moloney is on the way out given the new focus at the club and at 29, is the club going into a bidding war on Jamar?

Jamar is worth more to the club than Moloney in the next 3 years.

Jamar is worth more to the club than Moloney in the next 3 years.

Agree but Jamar at what cost

Agree but Jamar at what cost

Market value will dictate. 16 rounds of footy.

Jamar will stay, Beamer I'm not as confident on but still think he'll stay and this is just a way to get his contract sweetened.

There seems to be a lot of animosity directed at him, despite him being clearly our best player last year. Yes he struggled against the top clubs, every player did. Clean slate remember? If he didn't have a role to play in the Neeled game plan (or wasn't doing it) he wouldn't be out there.

Market value will dictate. 16 rounds of footy.

Will dictate what?

If we offer a player package A and an opposition club offers him a better package B (as a UFA) which package is aligned to market value?

Trouble is Moloney hasn't written very much so far on his new clean slate.

It concerns me that his manager is playing the media game already. Anything more than a 2-year deal would be too much commitment.

If he goes because our offer is insufficient, I'm not going to lose any sleep.

Moloney's manager must be hoping that other clubs were not watching On the Couch on Monday night. They showed centre bounce vision in which Moloney started off in a defensive position but lost his player pretty much instantly when the ball was bounced. Simply not good enough. The reality for Moloney is that whatever club he is at the coach will making the same demands as Neeld about the ways he plays.

Jamar is (to me) the more interesting and valuable of the two. I think Moloney is in danger of becoming a fringe 'best 22' player given that he's had some difficulty demonstrating that he's able to do what's required under the new game plan. He would have been hugely hurt by the demotion from the LG (and I suspect his Warrnambool trips with the new recruits were knocked on the head by the new regime) and may not have been able to see that it was in the Club's best interests. If he chooses to leave, we have a number of similar (and maybe better) players on the books.

Jamar, on the other hand, would be a big loss if he goes particularly if he develops his non-ruck play. His domination in the ruck shows that he has a lot to share with the likes of Gawn, Fitzie and Spencer and they will probably be much better ruckmen if they can follow his example. It will be up to Mark Neeld to convince him either that he owes the MFC for their perserverance or that we're going to be 'contenders' sooner rather than later - and our admin to find him some more money!

I doubt that Moloney or Jamar will still be vital cogs in our side by the time we are going for a flag. But this thread is really about whether we are able to hold onto our players in a world of free agency. IMO the signs are not good if we can’t hang onto players like Beamer.

Not sure why there is such anger to these two.

Both have given good service to the MFC, both have only a few good years left.

The MFC will not play finals in their time left.

If I was either of them I would see nothing but grief ahead for the rest of their playing time at AFL level.

If a good offer comes up I would take it.

When it suits the MFC we will fling them e.g. McDonald.

Take the chance for finals glory plenty of other players have done the same.

That is what free agency is all about.

Agreed OD. Loyalty went out the window many decades ago both ways.

Has the AFL released the f/a compensation system details yet or at least hinted when they will?

Has the AFL released the f/a compensation system details yet or at least hinted when they will?

I thought it was a calculation they were intending to keep in-house.

I thought it was a calculation they were intending to keep in-house.

ah ok, thanks.

Similar to the PP system by the sounds of it.

I thought it was a calculation they were intending to keep in-house.

Measured by the D.I.S. meter.

Hmm... I did a quick look at the history of 'established good' or 'known promising' players leaving, and not any of the less significant moves like Peter Walsh finishing off his career at Port. (I even excluded !Premiership Player! Steven Armstrong)

Jeff Farmer (2001)

Shane Woewodin (2002)

Darren Jolly (2004)

Scott Thompson (2004)

Travis Johnstone (2007)

Brock Mclean (2009)

Cameron Bruce (2010)

Interestingly, I think only Johnstone, Bruce and Farmer would have been eligible for free agency, and the only two we might feel regret about were both young when they left, Jolly (not getting opportunities behind White) and Thompson (allegedly homesick for Adelaide).

In terms of pure football value, I don't think losing Moloney would be a real problem. Certainly not if he can't lift back out of his current mediocre form. That said, what premiership-contending midfield would have room for an underperforming and slow player who can only fill one role?

There's a creeping sense that Moloney falls into the Mclean type of 'leaders'... loud, in charge, but how much of it is really about himsef?

The total opposite to say McDonald, or Grimes and Trengove.

There, I've said it. Moloney is starting to look like he's just been grandstanding, instead of leading, all these years. But that's the kind of reaction a player can expect when they clear their management to publicly shop them around when their weekly place on the team is under pressure from a late rookie-draft pick.

I doubt that Moloney or Jamar will still be vital cogs in our side by the time we are going for a flag. But this thread is really about whether we are able to hold onto our players in a world of free agency. IMO the signs are not good if we can’t hang onto players like Beamer.

so when are we going for a flag tony?

i might take a break until near that time....appreciate any information

Will dictate what?

If we offer a player package A and an opposition club offers him a better package B (as a UFA) which package is aligned to market value?

Package B is Market value if a second party wishes to pay it.

Package B is Market value if a second party wishes to pay it.

ok sounds fair, so in the context of Jamar, you are more or less saying we should match the highest genuine offer made to him no matter what it is (as by definition that is the "market value")?

You previously proposed that we offer Jamar market value to keep him.

Don't want to lose any more experienced players.

That said, Beamer would do well to focus on getting a kick & shaking a tag before worrying too much about his worth on the open market. He has been ihighlighted in several shows ( Foxtel last Monday, and by Leigh Matthews on 3AW) as lacking defensive skills, and dropping his bundle when tagged. Hardly attractive attributes when you want the big buck$.