Point Kick ins and defence of kick ins

[Redleg 38,506]

What is involved in the kick in?

1. The ability to kick a football accurately to a team mate.

Problem: We have few with this attribute.

Solution: Don't let those who can't kick accurately kick out.

2. A plan for kicking out or kickout strategy.

Problem: We don't seem to have one or one that the players understand.

Solution: Get a coach who has some idea how to implement a kick in plan and is able to communicate it to the team.

3. Players being willing to work to make a kick in plan effective.

Problem: Our players don't work to make position and give options.

Solution: Play players who are prepared to work and who buy in.

4. The ability to keep possession after the kick in.

Problem: We can't.

Solution: Implementing a series of drills over summer that deal with ball movement from full back to full forward under severe pressure.

5. The old perennial, our players turn over the ball much more than the other teams.

Problem: Too many of our players lack AFL standard skill.

Solution: Recruit players who can dispose of a ball under pressure and eliminate those that can't. Make that a high priority in your list of attributes sought in recruits, or players you trade for.

PS. Feel free to add more as required. I was using KISS in this post.

[DeeSpencer 23,661]

Wow. Just wow.

Find me the strategies that work, the skilled and hard players able to carry them out and the disciplined players able to do the running needed to do the running to make it work and you'll fix the problem.

I just don't understand why kicks out are some magic thing we can train and get better at when we can't even hold the ball in uncontested possession for a decent switch or kick it anywhere near our leading forwards (if we have any leading forwards).

In fact most weeks this year we haven't even got step one right which is run and pick up your opponents and if the ball comes near you put your head over it and win it.

To me wondering why we are so bad at kick outs is like wondering why the number 100 ranked player in tennis can't win a tough tiebreaker against a top 30 opponent.

When Aaron Davey plays like he did yesterday you realise how bad the real skill level of our team is. When Chris Dawes comes in and gets chest marks on the lead you wonder where the other forwards are leading. When Dean Terlich looks by far our best run and carry player from our back half you wonder who on earth is coaching our defenders to run and spread and take the game on.

[Nasher 33,246]

I highly doubt all that much focus has been put on this tbh. Point kick in strategy seems like fine tuning to me, and given that our players need reminding to run hard at the ball I struggle to work out how there would be time to go in to monumental levels of detail on this.

Edit: missed the master's post who said the same thing but way better.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Nasher

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

As a group (ie, we Demonlanders) we bemoan coaches who don't try different things. More precisely, we bag our own coach for allegedly not trying things. Yesterday we tried the huddle approach for kick ins. I didn't think it worked, but at least Neeld was trying something.

What I'm really struggling to understand, though, is the kick inboard from the half back flank boundary. Not the switch, but the kick from the 40m out HBF basically toward centre half back. We did that a lot. Especially Terlich (but I'm not blaming him. He did it most because he got the ball most). Why?

[DeeSpencer 23,661]

As a group (ie, we Demonlanders) we bemoan coaches who don't try different things. More precisely, we bag our own coach for allegedly not trying things. Yesterday we tried the huddle approach for kick ins. I didn't think it worked, but at least Neeld was trying something.

What I'm really struggling to understand, though, is the kick inboard from the half back flank boundary. Not the switch, but the kick from the 40m out HBF basically toward centre half back. We did that a lot. Especially Terlich (but I'm not blaming him. He did it most because he got the ball most). Why?

What's wrong with that kick? As long as its not under pressure and to a free man it then opens up both sides of the field.

I always thought the classic Malthouse/Neeld game plan was the move the ball via the boundary when under pressure and to players leading towards the boundary so a missed kick goes out of bounds or over the back but it is also designed to open large chunks of room in the middle of the ground to take advantage of.

From the CHB position the player should always be able to find someone back wide if there aren't any sensible safe options more directly towards goal.

EDIT: That said if the options are a loose man on the wing or a slow kick to CHB I'd rather the long kick and get things moving.

Edited May 20, 2013 by the master

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

What's wrong with that kick? As long as its not under pressure and to a free man it then opens up both sides of the field.

I always thought the classic Malthouse/Neeld game plan was the move the ball via the boundary when under pressure and to players leading towards the boundary so a missed kick goes out of bounds or over the back but it is also designed to open large chunks of room in the middle of the ground to take advantage of.

From the CHB position the player should always be able to find someone back wide if there aren't any sensible safe options more directly towards goal.

EDIT: That said if the options are a loose man on the wing or a slow kick to CHB I'd rather the long kick and get things moving.

I think what's wrong is less the option but more the execution. I appreciate your argument, but with our (1) foot skills being so poor and (2) our spread so poor, I think the inboard kick is still a high risk option. That being said, if that's what the future holds, I guess we have to be patient while the team leans to execute it successfully.

[Dee man 299]

One problem is that we flood the backline far too much, meaning there are opposition players everywhere.

If we reduce it to a few one-on-ones, its easier for players to lead to space. If we have guys like Garland, Watts, and Strauss kicking it 50m+ to the likes of Howe, Gawn, Tapscott, and maybe Trengove (i.e. guys who can/should take a mark) we've got far more of a chance of retaining possession which should be the priority. We're much better at using the ball around the centre of the ground where there is more space.

Short kicks don't work as there aren't enough good ball users in defence. Kicking it 30m to McDonald or Sellar in the back pocket is nowhere near a get out of jail card. Their job shouldn't be to lead, but to keep the best markers in the opposition side out of the equation.

[drdrake 3,061]

One thing I found amazing yesterday was we huddled for point kick ins, no issue most of the players went to one side of the ground good plan get numbers around the footy, but the amount of times we kicked to the other side of the ground was just stupid, we kicked long to a 3 on 1 their way, as soon as the ball hit the deck they had open players everywhere. Just silly, the plan was in place but we went the dumb option.

[DeeSpencer 23,661]

Saw this tweet for the first time today. Someone can upload the picture.

It's heat maps of AFL teams kick ins. Notice the top 3 (Syd, Haw, Freo) all go shorter with the majority of kicks inside 50 whilst we are bombing it long

https://twitter.com/championdata/status/469463218167885825/photo/1

[premiers in my lifetime? 30]

Saw this tweet for the first time today. Someone can upload the picture.

It's heat maps of AFL teams kick ins. Notice the top 3 (Syd, Haw, Freo) all go shorter with the majority of kicks inside 50 whilst we are bombing it long

https://twitter.com/championdata/status/469463218167885825/photo/1

[deanox 8,975]

Interesting that we never ever kick it straight.

I can't remember how many times this season we've had someone free 30 m out and ignored it and kicked to a contest.

Also, even if we can't get a clean chain of possession, I'd rather us take the short 30 m pocket option then bomb long from that kick putting the ball 80 m out than taking the long option first and kicking the ball long from the square and putting it 60 m out.

Edited July 17, 2014 by deanox

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

My eyes must deceive me. The heat map suggests we kick long to the left. My eyes tell me we kick long to the right. I have serious doubts about this data.

[george_on_the_outer 7,101]

My eyes must deceive me. The heat map suggests we kick long to the left. My eyes tell me we kick long to the right. I have serious doubts about this data.

Agree....Dunn always kicks to the right of the ground.

[dpositive 1,602]

demons and Port seem to be the odd ones out with little spread.