Lets just wait, it's still NAB cup, Cats smashed, Blues smashed,Crows and Tigers wowing everybody, experiments at all teams,stupid rules and we are still equal with all other teams at this stage.

I expect Malthouse and Neeld would talk a lot. And, not unsurprisingly, Malthouse's views on Watts seem to mirror Neeld's initial impressions of him.

And before everyone puts the knife into Malthouse, I understand he was very supportive of Mark Neeld in his application for the MFC gig and that he thought the Dees would be a great place for Neeld to end up.

Personally, I'm strongly of the view that Mark Neeld is the best thing that's happened to the Dees for many years. And, at least in part, that is due to Mick Malthouse. So, he can keep tearing strips off us - our performances in recent years don't deserve anything better than that IMO.

If we're going to succeed as a club, it's by facing facts - not by burying our head in the sand. On field, we've been soft - and this needs to change. Success won't otherwise come to us, and Malthouse simply seems to be pointing this out. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Mick would love to see the Dees flourish this year under Mark Neeld. And that's not going to happen without players like Jack Watts developing a killer focus and ambition on wanting to succeed.

+1

What, you think Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Foley are better than Beamer, Jones, McKenzie and whoever? That is where it all starts.

They are clearly better. Do you really think they're not?

Lets just wait, it's still NAB cup, Cats smashed, Blues smashed,Crows and Tigers wowing everybody, experiments at all teams,stupid rules and we are still equal with all other teams at this stage.

Smartest thing I've read for a while!

Mark Neeld's game plan involves a strong defence, using the boundary, not over finessing, winning contested footy, going long to a contest in the forward-line when appropriate, a strong forward press making it difficult for the opposition to get out of our forward 50, but it also involves spotting up short targets with run and spread, which is what we failed to see the other night. Right now the players are still in the embryonic stages of learning their roles and fine tuning a new plan. They're also in the process of getting better as footballers. There's nothing wrong with the game-plan. And rather than a full press, or zone, we saw them go man-on-man in one of the quarters at Casey, which indicates they're learning multiple ways to play.

We'll have some set backs this year, but we'll also see some really strong games of footy. I'm excited by the journey we're about to undertake and far from disillusioned by one game of footy, albeit a disappointing one.

Alastair Clarkson won 5 games in his first year and finished 14 of 16. He only won 9 games in his second year. It took him 3 years to play finals. He's about to embark on his 8th year of coaching. There were calls for his head early in his career. How about we have a little patience while the players learn a way of playing footy that is going to stand them in good stead for a crack at the finals in the not too distant future.

Mark Neeld's game plan involves a strong defence, using the boundary, not over finessing, winning contested footy, going long to a contest in the forward-line when appropriate, a strong forward press making it difficult for the opposition to get out of our forward 50, but it also involves spotting up short targets with run and spread, which is what we failed to see the other night. Right now the players are still in the embryonic stages of learning their roles and fine tuning a new plan. They're also in the process of getting better as footballers. There's nothing wrong with the game-plan. And rather than a full press, or zone, we saw them go man-on-man in one of the quarters at Casey, which indicates they're learning multiple ways to play.

We'll have some set backs this year, but we'll also see some really strong games of footy. I'm excited by the journey we're about to undertake and far from disillusioned by one game of footy, albeit a disappointing one.

Alastair Clarkson won 5 games in his first year and finished 14 of 16. He only won 9 games in his second year. It took him 3 years to play finals. He's about to embark on his 8th year of coaching. There were calls for his head early in his career. How about we have a little patience while the players learn a way of playing footy that is going to stand them in good stead for a crack at the finals in the not too distant future.

I concur with all your comments but let's not forget their canny, clever drafting. Game plan is one thing, drafting those who can accede to the vision is another.

I concur with all your comments but let's not forget their canny, clever drafting. Game plan is one thing, drafting those who can accede to the vision is another.

There's absolutely no doubt that we'll never win a flag, or fulfill all of our dreams, unless we develop, unearth, recruit, draft a couple of bona fide superstars. It's a must.

Watts deserves all the heat he gets. He hates competing. Kick to kick pony.

Heres the culture problem @ Melbournem & the downside of fast tracked list rebuild.

However I'd rather have the list & these problems than not have the list that we've built. the trick he said, was to change the culture of Old, with a culture of New. Jack & Jack...

Enter the full bodied players we've recruited, now some of these outside types will have to earn their places in the team, after first playing @ Casey to prove themselves worthy...

Neeld is a 'Smart' Man. I may call him Agent 86, or 'Maxwell'...

Hmmn, I wonder if he's got a 'Silver Hammer', sorry about that 'Cheif'.

I concur with all your comments but let's not forget their canny, clever drafting. Game plan is one thing, drafting those who can accede to the vision is another.

Yes clever drafting. All their picks have been available to us in the last 4-5 years. We picked otherwise.

The jury is out, but Hawthorn players usually don't need 5 years to become AFL standard. They just become good.

Funny about that. We are still waiting for Colin Sylvia to have a "break out" year??

That is the crux of the 2 clubs in a nutshell.

Yes clever drafting. All their picks have been available to us in the last 4-5 years. We picked otherwise.

The jury is out, but Hawthorn players usually don't need 5 years to become AFL standard. They just become good.

Funny about that. We are still waiting for Colin Sylvia to have a "break out" year??

That is the crux of the 2 clubs in a nutshell.

Some offerings from other posters resonates with me - we don't have the leadership to set training and playing standards.....yet.

The Bailey/Daniher boys might be on their last chance.

Now that's quite an encouraging appraissal by Malthouse, but I am not so convinced anymore our list is that good.

We lack enough real competitors (not enough Frawleys and Pettards for mine) and I can see Neeld is trying to address our lack of big strong recruits already in the last draft, with size and strength to play finals type footy.

I am begudgingly accepting Prendergasts recruiting was below everage and reckon Cameron would have done better. He just did not take into acount size and proven contested ability in junior ranks.

I worry when I see Bennell, Morton, Watts and even a high draft pick like Cook who start so far back in physical development. All look good at draft camp and the first three have let us down considerably since.

I was encouraged by watts last year but to me he looks lighter and smaller this year - how can this be? I look at Buddy now and he is a behemoth. Watts should be gaining in size at least.

I look at two rookies in Couch and Magner and they show so much more in contested footy than these high price recruits. I know they play pure inside roles but geez, you can't be outside always.

They are the real worry for me. I hear people consistently have a go at Sylvia and Moloney the 'flat track bully' but I don't get it. they are the least of our worries and go in hard. I see Sylvia protecting the ball carrier, buffeting and tackling better than just about all of his teammates. They are the least of our worries.

nothing wrong with Melbourne? I am not so sure as Mick, and reckon Neeld has a massive, a massive task to change us around as the blokes suited to his game plan are the Bartrams, Couch, Sellars etc who may only take us so far.

I honestly agree with everything Malthouse said there. He's got us pretty well summed up. Our list has a huge amount of potential that has yet to be shown. We have a lot of talented players who have suffered either from injuries or just bad coaching (and yes, that is a Morton reference). If Neeld can get these guys playing real football then we will have a hell of a list. I suspect that if he can't then a lot of them are going to be shopped around as trade bait at the end of the season.

They are clearly better. Do you really think they're not?

Sarcasm missed.

I honestly agree with everything Malthouse said there. He's got us pretty well summed up. Our list has a huge amount of potential that has yet to be shown. We have a lot of talented players who have suffered either from injuries or just bad coaching (and yes, that is a Morton reference). If Neeld can get these guys playing real football then we will have a hell of a list. I suspect that if he can't then a lot of them are going to be shopped around as trade bait at the end of the season.

WE do have "a lot of talented players" Surely a good coach will use that resource. Mick says of Neeld 'he’ll have a game structure that is tried and proven", I hope hes not a one trick pony trying to ues a "tried and true structure" with the wrong player types or we are due for another prolonged period of rebuilding.

I have seen other reports of strengths of players and have seen evidence of depth and competitiveness for positions

Where did that optimism go? 1 match against Hawks!!

Its going to be an interesting season for sure.

There's absolutely no doubt that we'll never win a flag, or fulfill all of our dreams, unless we develop, unearth, recruit, draft a couple of bona fide superstars. It's a must.

2nd smartest bloke on Demonland, please keep posting.

Yes clever drafting. All their picks have been available to us in the last 4-5 years. We picked otherwise.

The jury is out, but Hawthorn players usually don't need 5 years to become AFL standard. They just become good.

Funny about that. We are still waiting for Colin Sylvia to have a "break out" year??

That is the crux of the 2 clubs in a nutshell.

Its not "clever drafting" ie player lead via "we picked otherwise" - Its drafting to complement your development & game plans. One of our biggest weakness in the past. We could have had as many top picks as you want, but if you are always looking for the "best" player you will miss as many times as you hit. The odds get worse the further down the drafting system you go - at some clubs. Development is critical.

However, the common trap by many supporters is not allowing a transition period, that comes with a change of game plans.

So in reality - just because Im a good player (top pick) does't mean I can fit into game plan x. Yes, I "may" have a higher probability but no guarantees.

In reality - just because I'm an average player does not mean I can't excellently compliment game plan y.

2nd smartest bloke on Demonland, please keep posting.

Was the first banned ?

Was the first banned ?

The first is dandeeman...

This stuff doesn't happen overnight, people.

Small mercy: we won the contested possessions against a strong Hawthorn team that won it by around 35 last time we played them...

Progress.

A lot of butthurt supporters in here.

Malthouse is 100% correct.

A lot of butthurt supporters in here.

Malthouse is 100% correct.

He's right in what he says but he certainly isn't fair.

I want the blowtorch on Green, Davey, Moloney, Rivers, and a couple others before turning to Watts.

But again, I really don't care about criticism of MFC players - they deserve all they get after last year.

He's right in what he says but he certainly isn't fair.

I want the blowtorch on Green, Davey, Moloney, Rivers, and a couple others before turning to Watts.

But again, I really don't care about criticism of MFC players - they deserve all they get after last year.

Yep I have been saying that for some time.

Our senior players are ordinary

The first is dandeeman...

This stuff doesn't happen overnight, people.

Small mercy: we won the contested possessions against a strong Hawthorn team that won it by around 35 last time we played them...

Progress.

RP - would you be so kind to keep us updated with the weekly figures like you did in 2011 please? Would be interesting to see where we improve and hopefully show no areas of going backwards!

Cheers

Its not "clever drafting" ie player lead via "we picked otherwise" - Its drafting to complement your development & game plans. One of our biggest weakness in the past. We could have had as many top picks as you want, but if you are always looking for the "best" player you will miss as many times as you hit. The odds get worse the further down the drafting system you go - at some clubs. Development is critical.

However, the common trap by many supporters is not allowing a transition period, that comes with a change of game plans.

So in reality - just because Im a good player (top pick) does't mean I can fit into game plan x. Yes, I "may" have a higher probability but no guarantees.

In reality - just because I'm an average player does not mean I can't excellently compliment game plan y.

Did we draft the "Best" players in the last 4 years?

Maybe we did & they flourish under the new coaching staff...it is yet another wait...Except this time free agency is to become a player, so we do not have the same time frame..

If we are still down the bottom of the ladder in 2-3 years it is not going to be pretty...The list that was recruited will be spread across Australia

And speaking of transition periods....i think we have had a lot of those, more than most clubs so it is hard to blame the members venting just a little..Yes the list needs learning time, but it must be quicker than before.

It's what happened to Fitzroy from the late 80's onwards, the list slowly left.

I am not saying that is going to happen, but we as a club have to be aware how quickly the AFL landscape can change.

Did we draft the "Best" players in the last 4 years?

Did we develop the players the best in the last 4 years? (I can answer this for you - NO) - Sorry your question is unanswerable its so subjective.

Where do we draw the line 1,2,3 years, or is it over a whole career? Players are picked for multiple reasons & develop at different rates hitting different levels.

You dont pick your way to success - You develop your way to success. Again the trap many average punters fall into is - an over-emphasis on early draft picks. Early draft picks only improve your probability not guarantee your success.

Did we develop the players the best in the last 4 years? (I can answer this for you - NO) - Sorry your question is unanswerable its so subjective.

Where do we draw the line 1,2,3 years, or is it over a whole career? Players are picked for multiple reasons & develop at different rates hitting different levels.

You dont pick your way to success - You develop your way to success. Again the trap many average punters fall into is - an over-emphasis on early draft picks. Early draft picks only improve your probability not guarantee your success.

i agree.

Should we have "Tanked" for those early Draft picks...Did we gain enough out of it, or have we harmed the long term structure of the playing group? I didn't like it at all, but reluctantly went along with it, at the time....but right now i am honestly 50/50 on it...was the pain worth the gain?

Subjective again i know...People will argue that we were already that bad, but the Tanking name was hung around our neck in the media for over a year so it must have had some effect.

Other Clubs seem to dip & then the steady rise begins towards the Top 4....

We have certainly had problems developing our talent as a whole....so 2012 is crucial to Neeld. If he can inspire some serious improvement in certain players then the whole list will come along....

Wonder what the theme of training was today...or was it a public Holiday for the MFC aswell.

PA in adelaide next week is a good fixture.