The Young Leaders

[PaulRB 6,363]

A couple of factors seem to have been important to Neeld in selecting the LG as highlighted by the selections and his comments as to why they were selected and his general coaching approach.

The captains and most of the LG are articulate students of footy, great representatives of Neeld's Football University approach. They would have soaked up Neeld teachings and game plan and are the type of characters who are keen to communicate, explain and encourage their team mates in their also learning the new game plan. Most of them have had to work hard on themselves due to injury (Grimes), position (Jamar and Clark) or due to weaknesses in their game (Bartram, Jones). Most of them seem to have their best footy in front of them and have completely signed up to the Neeld reign.

To the discussion points:

Moloney - Love his grunt, passion and rawness, but suspect a couple of thing prevented him being in the LG, namely: he's an instinctual player who I suspect reverts to his gut approach when the pressure is on and drifts off what his contribution to the game plan should be. He also seems to go into his shell when the team or he is struggling. His butt wacking approach to team motivation may work on some players sometimes (saw him gee up Jnr before a game with a series of butt wacks and Jnr was on fire) I suspect that it is too full on or one dimensional for others. I think he need to focus this year on learning how his game style can be adapted to suit Neelds new game plan, I think this is a fair challenge for Beamer. I noticed last year when Scully was in a clearance set up with Moloney, it was Scully who was telling everyone (incl Moloney) where to be.

Garland - Love the "Undertaker" reckon he's a student of the game who, like many in the leadership group, has the ability to both hold his position and do his role while also assisting his team mates do theirs. I think both he and Frawley had/have a great mentor in Jared Rivers in this regard. He's aware of the flow of the game and rarely takes the wrong path out of the backline. I'd hope that being in the LG gives him the confidence to be more aggressive and assert himself more on the game. Frawley can already do this, Garland should be able to do more damage than he does. I think Garland will be looking after Cale this year.

Bartram - Barty rocks, solid, honest and couragous. Puts his body where it will inspire teammates, does all the 1percenters and works hard all the time. Reminds me of "Wheels". Should be interesting to see how he has steped up to the LG.

Jamar - We are blessed with the Russian, he's a kick arse ruckman when uninjured and if he's taken up the new Game Plan and its establishment and implementation in the heat of battle his value only increases. He'll be an awesome mentor to our up and coming rucks, and a very physical presence around the ball.

Clark - Forward line presence we've lacked. Don't know enough about him to say too much, but the fact that Neeld and co we so keen to get him and now promote him means he is integral to taking our forward line up a notch or two, either directly or indirectly.

On the Neeld's Game Plan, our Game plan this year, I think it is simplistic to say it will be X or Y. I think that the game has evolved to the extent that there are half a dozen or more "Game styles" the team will learn and the real skill of the LG and coaches is playing the right one at the right time. Chipping around the boundary won't be the style against teams who leave the corridor unprotected, for example. Horses for courses, hence the value of our LG being articulate footy thinkers...

Go Dees, looking forward to 2012 big time.

Edited February 4, 2012 by PaulRB

[Hannibal 5,814]

On the Neeld's Game Plan, our Game plan next year, I think it is simplistic to say it will be X or Y. I think that the game has evolved to the extent that there are half a dozen or more "Game styles" the team will learn and the real skill of the LG and coaches is playing the right on at the right time. Chipping around the boundary won't be the style against teams who leave the corridor unprotected, for example. Horses for courses, hence the value of our LG being articulate footy thinkers...

I don't quite agree. Of course there'll be different approaches depending on one's opponent, but in the main the game-plan won't alter much. It's hard enough learning the thrust of a new game-plan without having "half a dozen styles".

I've heard Mick Malthouse and Bomber Thompson both say on different occasions that every opposition knows how they play, but it's another thing emulating or curbing it. We'll attempt to predominantly play the game on our terms. Aspects will vary depending on the opposition, but in the main the game-plan will be steadfast. Match-ups are where you'll find most variance.

If you mean that on occasions we'll be man-on-man and on others will have set plays plus varying zone defences then I agree.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[rjay 24,928]

Moloney - Love his grunt, passion and rawness, but suspect a couple of thing prevented him being in the LG, namely: he's an instinctual player who I suspect reverts to his gut approach when the pressure is on and drifts off what his contribution to the game plan should be. He also seems to go into his shell when the team or he is struggling. His butt wacking approach to team motivation may work on some players sometimes (saw him gee up Jnr before a game with a series of butt wacks and Jnr was on fire) I suspect that it is too full on or one dimensional for others. I think he need to focus this year on learning how his game style can be adapted to suit Neelds new game plan, I think this is a fair challenge for Beamer. I noticed last year when Scully was in a clearance set up with Moloney, it was Scully who was telling everyone (incl Moloney) where to be.

Go Dees, looking forward to 2012 big time.

I've said similar in other posts and believe that his challenge will be to work with others in the mid field and build a strong cohesive unit that play for each other.

[PaulRB 6,363]

Thats fair enough. Looking forward to seeing it rolled out.

[Nasher 33,616]

Who remembers all the talk about "Scully and Butcher"? Seems like an eternity ago now, doesn't it?

[Sideshow Bob 2,386]

Starting to look good that Butcher kid.....

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

I agree. Nothing wrong with Butcher at all. Shows a lot that kid.

[Lutz 76]

So I was having a beer late yesterday at the Royal Saxon in Richmond (not a bad pub) with my Brother when we decide to toast the new captains and leadership group. We also decided to write down our best 22, which we usually do on the back of a coaster about this time every year. Alas, they didn't have any coasters, but we were able to improvise. We started at the back pocket, but, for my Brother Bartram wasn't a consideration. I said, you better pen his name down because he'll be in the team. He was horrified because as some others here point out his kicking is most definitely a liability. But I persisted.

I said to my Brother, how often do you see Bartam lose a contest ? He said, not often. I said, how often does he get beaten one-on-one ? He said, not often. I said, how often do you see him get goals kicked on him ? He said, not often. I said, what's his pace like when covering small forwards ? He said, pretty good. I said what sort of tackler is he ? He said, yeah good. But then he said, you can't have someone with his kicking skills coming out of the back-line. I said, I agree that it's an issue, but I believe that Neeld's game-plan will be far kinder to Bartam than Bailey's. Bailey relied on low percentage pinpoint passing that was hardly conducive to Bartam's game. Neeld's game-plan relies heavily on winning contested footy, dishing it off quickly to play makers, or scrapping a kick along the boundary line and starting again. Neeld's game-plan relies on protecting space and dictating where the game is going to played. Far more than ever Melb will be attempting to play the game on their terms. Neeld is far from stupid and he knows Bartam's deficiencies, but he also knows his strengths and the coach and player will work to utilise those strengths and minimise those weaknesses.

I'll reserve judgment until the season proper, but I can see why Bartram could be a valuable and tough little bastard under Neeld's direction. Pound for pound Bartram is also one of the strongest at the club. Some, including Range Rover, think he'll be a club leader, but mainly down at Casey, I disagree.

I'm of the same opinion as your brother, but you've swayed me with logic.

Ink Bartram in for the back pocket.

[Lutz 76]

Ever bothered going to training Lutz/E25? I know there's no point in bringing any reason to your contradictarian posts, but just thought I'd put it out there

Unfortunately, I'm often at work, but I fail to see the point.

"contradictarian"? Really?

Re: Moloney,

I'm fortunate enough to know Moloney personally (I wouldn't claim exceptionally well), and while I love the guy, I love the club more, and that comes first.

Beamdoggy is very boisterous and gung-ho, but I question his judgment a lot of the time, and wouldn't be too quick to follow him, as he'd probably lead me into a foxhole. I see him as a follower, who is desperately trying to be a leader, cos being the captain is so appealing to a bloke like him.

All the best intentions and desire in the world won't make the difference, if you lack the necessary skills.

Unfortunately he's not a great leader, and I'm sorry, but we can't have a captain who leaves something to be desired in terms of intelligence.

Harsh but true.

[jackaub 1,402]

So I was having a beer late yesterday at the Royal Saxon in Richmond (not a bad pub) with my Brother when we decide to toast the new captains and leadership group. We also decided to write down our best 22, which we usually do on the back of a coaster about this time every year. Alas, they didn't have any coasters, but we were able to improvise. We started at the back pocket, but, for my Brother Bartram wasn't a consideration. I said, you better pen his name down because he'll be in the team. He was horrified because as some others here point out his kicking is most definitely a liability. But I persisted. I said to my Brother, how often do you see Bartam lose a contest ? He said, not often. I said, how often does he get beaten one-on-one ? He said, not often. I said, how often do you see him get goals kicked on him ? He said, not often. I said, what's his pace like when covering small forwards ? He said, pretty good. I said what sort of tackler is he ? He said, yeah good. But then he said, you can't have someone with his kicking skills coming out of the back-line. I said, I agree that it's an issue, but I believe that Neeld's game-plan will be far kinder to Bartam than Bailey's. Bailey relied on low percentage pinpoint passing that was hardly conducive to Bartam's game. Neeld's game-plan relies heavily on winning contested footy, dishing it off quickly to play makers, or scrapping a kick along the boundary line and starting again. Neeld's game-plan relies on protecting space and dictating where the game is going to played. Far more than ever Melb will be attempting to play the game on their terms. Neeld is far from stupid and he knows Bartam's deficiencies, but he also knows his strengths and the coach and player will work to utilise those strengths and minimise those weaknesses. I'll reserve judgment until the season proper, but I can see why Bartram could be a valuable and tough little bastard under Neeld's direction. Pound for pound Bartram is also one of the strongest at the club. Some, including Range Rover, think he'll be a club leader, but mainly down at Casey, I disagree.

IMO a much maligned player thanks for putting the facts down so succinctly great post!!!

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

I was initially disappointed for Beamer, but does he deserve to be in the leadership group?

On reflecting on the fact he put his hand up to play that game (186), is a much greater sin that going out being a [censored] while drunk IMO.

A leader puts the team first, Brent put himself first in Geelong, something that tells me he is not the leader I had thought he was.

Back on topic, I'm thrilled with this leadership group and gives me more confidence towards our coaching brains trust than anything over the last decade

[daisycutter 29,616]

So I was having a beer late yesterday at the Royal Saxon in Richmond (not a bad pub) with my Brother when we decide to toast the new captains and leadership group. We also decided to write down our best 22, which we usually do on the back of a coaster about this time every year. Alas, they didn't have any coasters, but we were able to improvise. We started at the back pocket, but, for my Brother Bartram wasn't a consideration. I said, you better pen his name down because he'll be in the team. He was horrified because as some others here point out his kicking is most definitely a liability. But I persisted.

I said to my Brother, how often do you see Bartam lose a contest ? He said, not often. I said, how often does he get beaten one-on-one ? He said, not often. I said, how often do you see him get goals kicked on him ? He said, not often. I said, what's his pace like when covering small forwards ? He said, pretty good. I said what sort of tackler is he ? He said, yeah good. But then he said, you can't have someone with his kicking skills coming out of the back-line. I said, I agree that it's an issue, but I believe that Neeld's game-plan will be far kinder to Bartam than Bailey's. Bailey relied on low percentage pinpoint passing that was hardly conducive to Bartam's game. Neeld's game-plan relies heavily on winning contested footy, dishing it off quickly to play makers, or scrapping a kick along the boundary line and starting again. Neeld's game-plan relies on protecting space and dictating where the game is going to played. Far more than ever Melb will be attempting to play the game on their terms. Neeld is far from stupid and he knows Bartam's deficiencies, but he also knows his strengths and the coach and player will work to utilise those strengths and minimise those weaknesses.

I'll reserve judgment until the season proper, but I can see why Bartram could be a valuable and tough little bastard under Neeld's direction. Pound for pound Bartram is also one of the strongest at the club. Some, including Range Rover, think he'll be a club leader, but mainly down at Casey, I disagree.

you make a compelling case BH

with the right instructions and game plan I'm happy with Barts in the BL

but please keep him out of the FL (as we saw towards the end of the season) where you can't hide your kickingj

[Late Draft Pick 48]

I've really enjoyed these comments on leadership and our new direction.

I am so pleased to see Bartram and Clark in the leadership group. It just

makes this team so unrecognisable from what we are used to. And it makes it such a break from the past.

Whilst I love Beamer, I still remember an intra-club practice match I went to where Newton had just arrived at the club.

Beamer was giving him a serve for not taking a mark. This I felt at the time was an old style sort of leadership that most players now would

see as demeaning. "You've got to toughen them up etc". And yet the article I read in the Age this morning had Grimes and Trengrove talking about empathy.

I really can't help thinking of the difference between the Fighting Instinct, that Beamer, when pushed to it, can show in heaps, as opposed to the Fighting Spirit

which I see in Trengove and Grimes - a spirit that is not based on immediate emotion but a real respect for those around them and for the challenges at hand, including a respect for the opposition. And it's not actually about being media savie and presentable but this spirit that comes through when these guys front the media.

And btw Aaron Davey broke his leg at the end of the 2010 season and it still hasn't healed - you'll see he still has it strapped. And yet he was the guy who got 3 votes for each of the Collingwood games that year. And since that game is the only one I still have in HD, I remember that both Bate and Morton played great games; I still think there's lots left in all three of them.

[Late Draft Pick 48]

Oh and btw they raved about how many top onballers that Bartram had kept quiet in the previous games. Go Barts!

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Unfortunately, I'm often at work, but I fail to see the point.

"contradictarian"? Really?

Re: Moloney,

I'm fortunate enough to know Moloney personally (I wouldn't claim exceptionally well), and while I love the guy, I love the club more, and that comes first.

Beamdoggy is very boisterous and gung-ho, but I question his judgment a lot of the time, and wouldn't be too quick to follow him, as he'd probably lead me into a foxhole. I see him as a follower, who is desperately trying to be a leader, cos being the captain is so appealing to a bloke like him.

All the best intentions and desire in the world won't make the difference, if you lack the necessary skills.

Unfortunately he's not a great leader, and I'm sorry, but we can't have a captain who leaves something to be desired in terms of intelligence.

Harsh but true.

Obviously not a good mate of Brents there Lutz. youve absolutely slated the poor bloke here.

[Guest djdemons]

I don't get why people are so bewildered by Bartram's selection.

Since when do you have to be the best and most skilled player to qualify as a quality leader?

Bartram works his butt off and has done so since the moment he arrived at the club. He is about as talented as bloody Nick Maxwell, and if every one of our players worked as hard as him, we would never lose by 186 points.

Im with you on this one. I rememeber a few years ago I think it was his 1st or 2nd year of AFL he was running with Garry Ablett Jnr when we played Geelong at Skilled. Bartram Held Ablett to 17 touches I think and frustrated the little master. Im pretty sure it was the year Ablett won his MVP award where he dominated the comp.Someone can correct me on this.? My point Bartram is like Jordie Mac. They get in he team by playing their role and working hard for the team mates and not giving up when we're getting smashed. With a whole heap of coaches now at the club im sure his skill levels will improve alot this year.

[Lutz 76]

Obviously not a good mate of Brents there Lutz. youve absolutely slated the poor bloke here.

Just an honest appraisal.

Not a close mate, as I said.

Poor bloke?

He's not a bad person, and we all have faults.

As much as I love the guy, the club comes first.

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

Im with you on this one. I rememeber a few years ago I think it was his 1st or 2nd year of AFL he was running with Garry Ablett Jnr when we played Geelong at Skilled. Bartram Held Ablett to 17 touches I think and frustrated the little master. Im pretty sure it was the year Ablett won his MVP award where he dominated the comp.Someone can correct me on this.? My point Bartram is like Jordie Mac. They get in he team by playing their role and working hard for the team mates and not giving up when we're getting smashed. With a whole heap of coaches now at the club im sure his skill levels will improve alot this year.

Neeld has kept Clint as a required player, & put him in the leadership group-says it all really doesn't it.

Always liked Bartram, he gives it all.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

a little Machiavellian mate.

They might also be just the guys for the job.

Agreed old dee. People are coming up with all sorts of theories to explain what they cant accept/understand.

Some of the selections are very interesting, the Clark one is probably the most intriguing. Something that is worth noting is the fact that they have both into the club fresh, so when Neeled was saying that it was a clean slate he meant it, as far as he was concerned Clark was on the exact same footing as say Beamer.

It will be a very interesting leadership group to watch this year.

Not when he decided on the leadership group.

It should be a better leadership group to watch. But that would not be hard.

Perhaps some of the older players are a bit disconnected from the rest of the group. And given the relative youth of the group, that wouldn't be a good thing as it is a very young list with the majority of players probably being 23 and younger. Hence, the very young leadership group and the absence of older players in it (Jamar aside).

Perhaps some of the older players are not considered leaders by the FD....Hmmmm. Neeld has made a clear statement about the future its up to Green, Davey, Rivers and Beamer to fight to work out whether they are part of that future.

[Pennant St Dee 13,176]

Im with you on this one. I rememeber a few years ago I think it was his 1st or 2nd year of AFL he was running with Garry Ablett Jnr when we played Geelong at Skilled. Bartram Held Ablett to 17 touches I think and frustrated the little master. Im pretty sure it was the year Ablett won his MVP award where he dominated the comp.Someone can correct me on this.? My point Bartram is like Jordie Mac. They get in he team by playing their role and working hard for the team mates and not giving up when we're getting smashed. With a whole heap of coaches now at the club im sure his skill levels will improve alot this year.

Yes I said in another post last year that Barty IMO could be our best run with player. 3 weeks in a row he kept Kerr, Cotchin & Ablett quiet not bad on a resume as a run with player.

When I think of Bartram I think of Rowan JONES who was slated by many eagles fans but Woosha always said he was vital to the team and you could not have a team full of Benny Cousins's and Chris Judds. From memory they used to refer to Jones as the conduit. He was like Bartram gave everything he had but was not blessed with natural talent or polished skills.

Is a whipping boy far to often for many on this site

[Demonsterative 3,020]

I see this as a 'new era' leadership group taking the club forward. Neeld himself has said that the club will work hard to build the two Jacks leadership qualities. With the resources at hand i believe that this will happen

I want to thank Green, Moloney and Rivers for their leadership (i may have forgot others). Regardless of personal opinions, they served the club to the best of their abilities and that is good enough for me. Past coaches believed in them and im sure they will continue to lead in their own right.

Having said that i hope Clark shows a more mature side. If you think Green sulked and didnt lift his head in difficult times. Clark was the master in this area at the lions. Prove me wrong big fella and good luck

[old55 23,589]

I feel a little nervous for the Jacks as captains. As early as NAB Cup Round 1 they're going to run into Jonathan Brown and Gary Ablett in the corresponding roles. I agree we don't have an alternative like them unfortunately. It's going to be a rough initiation for them this year, particularly when the team inevitably struggles against some of the better sides. They'll need plenty of support.

In the infamous Luke Power "Scully needs to get his body right" interview on SEN he also said that the Lions used to give the Cats plenty of [censored] when the Lions were at the top and the Cats on the rise and that turned around in a big way in recent years. We can hope for the same, but I think there's no doubt the Jacks will be copping it hard this year. "Call yourself captain? That's a Captain"

[daisycutter 29,616]

I feel a little nervous for the Jacks as captains. As early as NAB Cup Round 1 they're going to run into Jonathan Brown and Gary Ablett in the corresponding roles. I agree we don't have an alternative like them unfortunately. It's going to be a rough initiation for them this year, particularly when the team inevitably struggles against some of the better sides. They'll need plenty of support.

In the infamous Luke Power "Scully needs to get his body right" interview on SEN he also said that the Lions used to give the Cats plenty of [censored] when the Lions were at the top and the Cats on the rise and that turned around in a big way in recent years. We can hope for the same, but I think there's no doubt the Jacks will be copping it hard this year. "Call yourself captain? That's a Captain"

good heavens old55, that will be the least of their problems

[Biffen 12,943]

Ducks Backs and water .Grains of salt . Tinker's cuss .

Bring on the sledge -hammers

[Deeoldfart 8,033]

It's all part of the 'learning curve' old55. Our Jacks will have plenty of support around them (both on and off the field), and I have very little doubt that they'll come out the other end better leaders and better players for the experience.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Deeoldfart