Tom Scully wants to be Giant for life!

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

I agree with everything you have said except we should have known better. Everyone would have taken Scully - everyone would have been duped. Nobody had the slightest suspicion except to think he was quiet, shy, focussed kid. Clubs have wasted picks on non performing talent, we wasted one on non performing character. I dont think we could have known

I too would not say it Nut, except his absolute change in body language between 2010 & 2011 was so Marked....Here is a young man who knew exactly what he was planning a long way out.....It is a shame it wasn't picked up, a real shame.

A study of Body Language should be looked at by the MFC for future drafts so we are never shafted like this again....There are very easy pointers to look for if you know what they are....Police Interviewers know them well.

We are now moving $40 million + each year...mistakes like 2009 must be learnt from.

[daisycutter 29,614]

I too would not say it Nut, except his absolute change in body language between 2010 & 2011 was so Marked....Here is a young man who knew exactly what he was planning a long way out.....It is a shame it wasn't picked up, a real shame.

A study of Body Language should be looked at by the MFC for future drafts so we are never shafted like this again....There are very easy pointers to look for if you know what they are....Police Interviewers know them well.

We are now moving $40 million + each year...mistakes like 2009 must be learnt from.

LOL....are you suggesting the club should hire a 'profiler'?.......eat your heart out FBI

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

You're fast talking me into believing that this had been going on for a lot longer than October 2010! Is that why the AFL didn't take any action against us after Bailey talked about "doing the best thing for the football club"? Was Vlad fully aware of Tom's movements, therefore allowing us to have the first 2 picks, knowing too well that we would lose one almost as soon as the ink dried on the contract?

This will all come out in time i have no doubt....Melbourne will move on, but there will still be people involved inside the club who will not forget how we were stitched up, i have no doubt.

It was so clinical....he was here then disappeared, on the GW$ website within half an hour......

No mention at all of March 5.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

LOL....are you suggesting the club should hire a 'profiler'?.......eat your heart out FBI

Yes i think drafting & trading will become that important...Opposition Clubs will look at the $cully transaction very quickly..

Wangerneen & Ablett do not come close as they had won Brownlows and GF's at their original clubs

[nutbean 8,838]

I too would not say it Nut, except his absolute change in body language between 2010 & 2011 was so Marked....Here is a young man who knew exactly what he was planning a long way out.....It is a shame it wasn't picked up, a real shame.

A study of Body Language should be looked at by the MFC for future drafts so we are never shafted like this again....There are very easy pointers to look for if you know what they are....Police Interviewers know them well.

We are now moving $40 million + each year...mistakes like 2009 must be learnt from.

and interstate clubs continually take kids from other states - and of course they ask the questions - unless kids get hooked up to lie detectors they are never gonna know.

I would venture that even with a 3 year contract signed by Trengove he was more of a risk than Scully at the time. As are all interstate kids. The most common theme on club transfers is the "go home factor".

I will further venture we asked the hard questions and got the answers. I am sure that he would have preferred Richmond but i dont think any amount of profiling would have shown up what has transpired. We can learn nothing from this re what to do at draft time

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

I too would not say it Nut, except his absolute change in body language between 2010 & 2011 was so Marked....Here is a young man who knew exactly what he was planning a long way out.....It is a shame it wasn't picked up, a real shame.

A study of Body Language should be looked at by the MFC for future drafts so we are never shafted like this again....There are very easy pointers to look for if you know what they are....Police Interviewers know them well.

We are now moving $40 million + each year...mistakes like 2009 must be learnt from.

But then there will be the kids who display dishonest body language but it is only their nerves coming through. Unfortunately you can only start speculating on a kids loyalty when they start doing speculative things, like holding out on contract negotiations. Even then they could only be trying to maximise their contracts as any self serving person with half a brain would be doing.

There is no way to safeguard against a future Scully, short of asking them if they are going to be a Demon for life. And I think that question is unfair. Alas such is life.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

and interstate clubs continually take kids from other states - and of course they ask the questions - unless kids get hooked up to lie detectors they are never gonna know.

I would venture that even with a 3 year contract signed by Trengove he was more of a risk than Scully at the time. As are all interstate kids. The most common theme on club transfers is the "go home factor".

I will further venture we asked the hard questions and got the answers. I am sure that he would have preferred Richmond but i dont think any amount of profiling would have shown up what has transpired. We can learn nothing from this re what to do at draft time

Let's wait & see....I think a lot can be learnt from this entire transaction. It is different to all others.

What you say above, i agree with....But it is not the same as this one.

The Club i hope becomes stronger because of it, as i said the day it happened, but that still does not stop the bad feeling i get from the whole shady affair.

During 2011 i sat on the fence, seriously changing my opinion as certain snippets came through, but Range Rover was dead right all along, and even though he carried on like a pork chop in the aftermath & did himself no respect i give him some credit....The signs were there from way back...& the MFC was not educated enough to pick it up...no matter what we offered he would not have stayed.

At least we saved money.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

But then there will be the kids who display dishonest body language but it is only their nerves coming through. Unfortunately you can only start speculating on a kids loyalty when they start doing speculative things, like holding out on contract negotiations. Even then they could only be trying to maximise their contracts as any self serving person with half a brain would be doing.

There is no way to safeguard against a future Scully, short of asking them if they are going to be a Demon for life. And I think that question is unfair. Alas such is life.

There are ways of finding out...it depends on whether you have the time or resources to put the work in.

Books and Film about Body Language are totally fascinating....We all do it without thinking....and as soon as we try to stop doing it (Thinking about it) we are also caught out by those in the know..

The $cully years at Melbourne were like an Episode of "Law & Order Criminal intent" when you look back on it now...

[McQueen 17,864]

We shouldn't have chosen him...that's what i am saying....Your idea of a "not too bad outcome" is certainly not mine

We are just dead lucky we have Jack Viney in the wings....But Jack and a number one 2009 Draft pick working together is what it should be...I blame no one C & B but it will not be forgotten like '87 0r '58.

Those who say "just get over it" are delusional...i want a 13th Cup.

We do.

His name is Jack Trengove.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

We do.

His name is Jack Trengove.

Jack was a tremendous choice, but don't sell yourself short....we now have nothing from our 2009 number one pick, a pick who never got out of second gear.

[old dee 23,790]

This will all come out in time i have no doubt....Melbourne will move on, but there will still be people involved inside the club who will not forget how we were stitched up, i have no doubt.

It was so clinical....he was here then disappeared, on the GW$ website within half an hour......

No mention at all of March 5.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing WYL.

I believe he had every intention of moving on from the MFC when he was drafted.

It was always about the highest bidder, if the highest bidder had been the MFC he would still be with us.

But he is not.

Now hindsight might show he did us a favour with his knee.

But you have got to let it go.

We picked the wrong guy he is gone to GWS.

Nothing more to do but get on with life and enjoy the players we have and will draft in a few days time.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing WYL.

I believe he had every intention of moving on from the MFC when he was drafted.

It was always about the highest bidder, if the highest bidder had been the MFC he would still be with us.

But he is not.

Now hindsight might show he did us a favour with his knee.

But you have got to let it go.

We picked the wrong guy he is gone to GWS.

Nothing more to do but get on with life and enjoy the players we have and will draft in a few days time.

I have let it go...i am merely saying what you have said above..."We picked the wrong guy" & we must be better prepared next time so we don't do it again.

[old dee 23,790]

I have let it go...i am merely saying what you have said above..."We picked the wrong guy" & we must be better prepared next time so we don't do it again.

Not sure how you do that, how do you work out if someone intends to leave in 2 years time?

You pick what you see as the best player and then try and instill in him the desire to stay.

It worked with JT but not TS.

I keep promising myself I will not talk about him anymore but here I am.

That is it I promise no more TS talk from Me!

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Not sure how you do that, how do you work out if someone intends to leave in 2 years time?

You pick what you see as the best player and then try and instill in him the desire to stay.

It worked with JT but not TS.

I keep promising myself I will not talk about him anymore but here I am.

That is it I promise no more TS talk from Me!

Have a read of this Book as an introduction....that is how you prepare yourself better for next time.

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Book-Body-Language/dp/0553804723/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1320738609&sr=1-1

I had the original version until it got "Lifted" from my house years back.

[McQueen 17,864]

Jack was a tremendous choice, but don't sell yourself short....we now have nothing from our 2009 number one pick, a pick who never got out of second gear.

Sliding doors. If Trengove was chosen ahead of Scully that year (according to Bailey it was pretty much a toss of the coin), we could be in the situation where GWS targeted JT, got him, and we were left with Scully.

When I view it from that perspective, I have no regrets about anything. Priority picks could well be a thing of the past in years to come. We bascially received 2 No. 1 draft picks. The good one stayed with us, the evil one has left and in the process provided us with extra money, 2 x first round picks, and potentially a gun KPF in Clark. All this bodes a far sight better than keeping that other dipstick.

The bridge has been built and many of us are getting over it.

[Yoda 33]

Let's wait & see....I think a lot can be learnt from this entire transaction. It is different to all others. What you say above, i agree with....But it is not the same as this one. The Club i hope becomes stronger because of it, as i said the day it happened, but that still does not stop the bad feeling i get from the whole shady affair. During 2011 i sat on the fence, seriously changing my opinion as certain snippets came through, but Range Rover was dead right all along, and even though he carried on like a pork chop in the aftermath & did himself no respect i give him some credit....The signs were there from way back...& the MFC was not educated enough to pick it up...no matter what we offered he would not have stayed. At least we saved money.

Not to want to harp on this subject but I'm obviously well acquainted with Range Rover. I'm quite confident that he was on the money most of the year but I think it's wrong to say the MFC weren't on to it as well fairly early on. I think they were and then did what they had to do - play it with a straight bat and make the best of a bad situation ... a season-long 'black cloud' as Schwab put it.

But I think it's wrong to suggest that there was anything at all we could have done to avert what happened. You could've sent the entire Purana Taskforce in to interrogate the kid before the 2009 draft and he wouldn't have blinked. He's just got that type of personality.

It was just bad luck, or karma, whichever way you want to look at it. Some have even ventured to say losing him will be a blessing in disguise. I think this is a stretch but it remains to be seen.

Btw ... Range Rover sends a belated apology for his post-victory histrionics. But can you blame the guy? He was sent to the sin-bin no less than three times for standing up to the Man!

Edited November 8, 2011 by Yoda

[monoccular 17,428]

Yes you are right to a point, but we had more of a chance to see what was going to unfold....and that's what irks me. GW$ had already been voted on by the AFL when the T$ name was read out...

Well then let us all once again be happy that Jordan McMahon can kick from 50 metres under pressure, otherwise we could have missed out on the one who I, and I think most here, believe is a honorable and top grade player who may well go on to captain a premiership team; one who I actually would beleive if he said he wanted to be a one team player ( I guess just as I naively believed from the mouth of one T$, before it was stuffed with gold)!

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Not to want to harp on this subject but I'm obviously well acquainted with Range Rover. I'm quite confident that he was on the money most of the year but I think it's wrong to say the MFC weren't on to it as well fairly early on. I think they were and then did what they had to do - play it with a straight bat and make the best of a bad situation ... a season-long 'black cloud' as Schwab put it.

But I think it's wrong to suggest that there was anything at all we could have done to avert what happened. You could've sent the entire Purana Taskforce in to interrogate the kid before the 2009 draft and he wouldn't have blinked. He's just got that type of personality.

It was just bad luck, or karma, whichever way you want to look at it. Some have even ventured to say losing him will be a blessing in disguise. I think this is a stretch but it remains to be seen.

Btw ... Range Rover sends a belated apology for his post-victory histrionics. But can you blame the guy? He was sent to the sin-bin no less than three times for standing up to the Man!

Fair points Yoda....And i certainly am not disagreeing with you, but as i have hilighted your point above..There are ways of finding these things out...and as T$ has such a strong personality with the right methods, we could have dodged a bullet much earlier..as it certainly did drain a lot of energy from the club, in hindsight i admit.

Body Language is a truly fascinating subject and i would love to closely study that March 5 Media Conference again..it would have told a lot.

I have no doubt T$ was put in a very awkward situation...but he should never have done that Conference.

[monoccular 17,428]

But I think it's wrong to suggest that there was anything at all we could have done to avert what happened. You could've sent the entire Purana Taskforce in to interrogate the kid before the 2009 draft and he wouldn't have blinked. He's just got that type of personality.

It was just bad luck, or karma, whichever way you want to look at it. Some have even ventured to say losing him will be a blessing in disguise. I think this is a stretch but it remains to be seen.

Yoda- I guess we could have crumbled and spent all our dough on a disloyal lying hypocrite, (with a Dickie knee thrown in, unless of course the games he missed in 2011 were not due to an injury at all, but were just another part of the growing panoply of lies) and losing other developing stars in the process and dividing the playing group.......so, the fact that he has gone IS a blessing. The resistance to he short term 'easy option' can only strengthen the group

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Well then let us all once again be happy that Jordan McMahon can kick from 50 metres under pressure, otherwise we could have missed out on the one who I, and I think most here, believe is a honorable and top grade player who may well go on to captain a premiership team; one who I actually would beleive if he said he wanted to be a one team player ( I guess just as I naively believed from the mouth of one T$, before it was stuffed with gold)!

Oh i am most happy with J Trengove don't be concerned about that.

[rpfc 28,420]

Not to want to harp on this subject but I'm obviously well acquainted with Range Rover. I'm quite confident that he was on the money most of the year but I think it's wrong to say the MFC weren't on to it as well fairly early on. I think they were and then did what they had to do - play it with a straight bat and make the best of a bad situation ... a season-long 'black cloud' as Schwab put it.

But I think it's wrong to suggest that there was anything at all we could have done to avert what happened. You could've sent the entire Purana Taskforce in to interrogate the kid before the 2009 draft and he wouldn't have blinked. He's just got that type of personality.

It was just bad luck, or karma, whichever way you want to look at it. Some have even ventured to say losing him will be a blessing in disguise. I think this is a stretch but it remains to be seen.

Btw ... Range Rover sends a belated apology for his post-victory histrionics. But can you blame the guy? He was sent to the sin-bin no less than three times for standing up to the Man!

Here we go again, hmm?

The Melbourne Football Club was not complicit in any HWMNBN shenanigans.

I couldn't care less about an effing GWS player anymore, but don't you tell me the club knew of the betrayal and kept it quiet to keep up appearances or whatever wafer-thin reason you can think up.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Yoda- I guess we could have crumbled and spent all our dough on a disloyal lying hypocrite, (with a Dickie knee thrown in, unless of course the games he missed in 2011 were not due to an injury at all, but were just another part of the growing panoply of lies) and losing other developing stars in the process and dividing the playing group.......so, the fact that he has gone IS a blessing. The resistance to he short term 'easy option' can only strengthen the group

Very interesting point, and one i tossed around in my head all year.

I heard Sheeds on the radio talking about the $cully knee. He expects Tom to do a full preseason so we should all watch very closely.

[rpfc 28,420]

I too would not say it Nut, except his absolute change in body language between 2010 & 2011 was so Marked....Here is a young man who knew exactly what he was planning a long way out.....It is a shame it wasn't picked up, a real shame.

A study of Body Language should be looked at by the MFC for future drafts so we are never shafted like this again....There are very easy pointers to look for if you know what they are....Police Interviewers know them well.

We are now moving $40 million + each year...mistakes like 2009 must be learnt from.

Yes i think drafting & trading will become that important...Opposition Clubs will look at the $cully transaction very quickly..

Wangerneen & Ablett do not come close as they had won Brownlows and GF's at their original clubs

Let's wait & see....I think a lot can be learnt from this entire transaction. It is different to all others.

What you say above, i agree with....But it is not the same as this one.

The Club i hope becomes stronger because of it, as i said the day it happened, but that still does not stop the bad feeling i get from the whole shady affair.

During 2011 i sat on the fence, seriously changing my opinion as certain snippets came through, but Range Rover was dead right all along, and even though he carried on like a pork chop in the aftermath & did himself no respect i give him some credit....The signs were there from way back...& the MFC was not educated enough to pick it up...no matter what we offered he would not have stayed.

At least we saved money.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Settle down rpfc.....There is nothing wrong with reflecting...Nobody is pointing the bone.

[Yoda 33]

Fair points Yoda....And i certainly am not disagreeing with you, but as i have hilighted your point above..There are ways of finding these things out...and as T$ has such a strong personality with the right methods, we could have dodged a bullet much earlier..as it certainly did drain a lot of energy from the club, in hindsight i admit.

Body Language is a truly fascinating subject and i would love to closely study that March 5 Media Conference again..it would have told a lot.

I have no doubt T$ was put in a very awkward situation...but he should never have done that Conference.

That conference can be found with a quick Google search and does make for interesting viewing the second time around. I think it was AmericadeCali who first picked up on it but you do get the distinct vibe that he was 'coached' to give specific answers. He did it very well but there are certainly a few giveaways in his body language that become apparent with a second, post-facto viewing.

Regarding researching top draft talent, I do wonder sometimes what lengths they go to to talk to the parents of these kids prior to selecting them. One wonders if a few surreptitious conversations with Fill Scully over some beers mightn't have raised a few early red flags.