Id love to know Missons answer to that TM !!

Clearly a fitness man who had great success at other clubs has no idea what weight our players should have.

Is this a serious question? "Why aren't our 21 year olds the same size as those other clubs 27 year olds?"

  On 15/07/2013 at 06:41, Nasher said:

Is this a serious question? "Why aren't our 21 year olds the same size as those other clubs 27 year

olds?"

Of course it is. Misson should have been messianic - not turning water into wine, but turning kids into brick outhouses overnight.

  On 15/07/2013 at 06:41, Nasher said:

Is this a serious question? "Why aren't our 21 year olds the same size as those other clubs 27 year olds?"

No I'm asking why some of our players aren't the same size as Josh Caddy, Mitch Duncan, Steven Motlop, George HS, Jordan Murdoch, Billie Smedts - guys who are in the same age bracket.

Now from the guys who played on the weekend we had a few mature age guys in Matt Jones, Terlich and Clisby who I get it the first year of them in the AFL you'd focus a lot on fitness and making sure they can get through the season. Same for Toumpas and Kent as well as talls like Gawn, Tom McDonald and Fitzpatrick who both have decent frames and you don't want to overload them.

I suppose my criticism comes for players like Trengove, Nicholson, Grimes, Watts and Blease. None of which you'd label anything close to AFL top quality well rounded athletes in strength, size endurance and speed. You can add Jetta, McKenzie, Bail, Tapscott and Strauss.

My concern isn't so much that they have physical weaknesses because almost all AFL players do. That's part of what makes the game good. But my concern is that they seem to lack power. With those Geelong guys I mentioned some are quick, some are slow, some are strong some not so much but they all seem to bring a power attribute that helps them play AFL.

Of course one might ask why two 22 y0's of similar height are two vastly different builds, indeed only 15 days difference in age.

One defines what an athlete might look like, the other still gets knocked off his feet.

I dont , for one think our bodies are ( across the board ) where they ought to be

  On 15/07/2013 at 07:38, the master said:

No I'm asking why some of our players aren't the same size as Josh Caddy, Mitch Duncan, Steven Motlop, George HS, Jordan Murdoch, Billie Smedts - guys who are in the same age bracket.

Now from the guys who played on the weekend we had a few mature age guys in Matt Jones, Terlich and Clisby who I get it the first year of them in the AFL you'd focus a lot on fitness and making sure they can get through the season. Same for Toumpas and Kent as well as talls like Gawn, Tom McDonald and Fitzpatrick who both have decent frames and you don't want to overload them.

I suppose my criticism comes for players like Trengove, Nicholson, Grimes, Watts and Blease. None of which you'd label anything close to AFL top quality well rounded athletes in strength, size endurance and speed. You can add Jetta, McKenzie, Bail, Tapscott and Strauss.

My concern isn't so much that they have physical weaknesses because almost all AFL players do. That's part of what makes the game good. But my concern is that they seem to lack power. With those Geelong guys I mentioned some are quick, some are slow, some are strong some not so much but they all seem to bring a power attribute that helps them play AFL.

Tapscott ,Strauss and Jetta have AFL bodies and Jetta wont get much bigger(he is quite short).

Misson and Neeld have always said we need three honest pre-seasons .

Pederson and Gillies came to the club looking like drunks from the pub.

Our injury list has been relatively small which is a credit to Misson .

As for muscle-bulk-it should be pretty easy to achieve but for some reason we get runts.

Who is supervising our weights program _Roland Rocchicioli? FFS.

Morton and Gysberts are gone at least .

Apart from the departed ,I have no real qualms with our players size .

We are not automatically going to get bodies like Hawkins,Hunt,Kelly ,Johnson.

It takes Pizza ,Weights ,Beer Weights ,Pizza,Spaghetti ,Weights etc

The weight of a footballer should be around his upper legs , glutes and shoulders.

We just looked smaller and slower because we were outclassed and outplayed for the whole day and because of Brian Royals stunning ability to keep his record intact .

last time I looked at AAMI there were weights there !!

  On 15/07/2013 at 08:16, belzebub59 said:

last time I looked at AAMI there were weights there !!

they're either paper-mache or hollow bb

  On 15/07/2013 at 08:06, Biffen said:

Our injury list has been relatively small which is a credit to Misson .

Yes but...there seems to have been a spate of foot injuries mid-year.

I suspect, but I'd like to know, if Misson's training them harder has had this unfortunate effect.

Not that I am saying they should not be driven, but is it training driven for the likes of Evans?

Interesting too that Cale M looked as lightly framed as ever yesterday.

  On 15/07/2013 at 08:43, daisycutter said:

they're either paper-mache or hollow bb

must be, looking at a few.!!!!

I always thought the fitness was below afl standard was an excuse for neeld to buy time... I can believe our list was young hence the standard base was lower but guys like jones and even green Moloney have been in the system and can't be that much lower... The previous fitness guy was from hawthorn bailey was from port they all understand afl standards

A recent article listed mfc fitness as an issue as other clubs had commented that we are doing all aerobic/long distance stuff and no power short burst work which is required for afl. They were interesting comments after the big deal that was made about our improved training

  On 15/07/2013 at 07:38, the master said:

I suppose my criticism comes for players like Trengove, Nicholson, Grimes, Watts and Blease. None of which you'd label anything close to AFL top quality well rounded athletes in strength, size endurance and speed.

...21, 23, 24, 22, 22.

  On 15/07/2013 at 07:38, the master said:

You can add Jetta, McKenzie, Bail, Tapscott and Strauss.

23, 23, 25, 22 (and built like a brick outhouse, why's he in this group?), 23.

The only one whose case I think you could argue as being close to complete development wise is Bail (and his problem is not size, it's just that he's no good), and maybe Grimes. The rest are still a long way off their peak size and shape, fitness and whatever other attributes you want to toss up.

If you're really claiming that you're comparing them to other players in the same age group, I'd like to see you present some evidence to support your claim that our players aren't on a comparable trajectory. And I mean real evidence, not something dismissive like "I can see it with my eyes". Eyes can be deceived.

Edit: Despite how it may come across, I'm not trying to argue that you're wrong about how our players' physical development is tracking relative to other clubs. You could be absolutely right. I'm also not saying with absolute certainty that it's purely because of age - reality is I don't know. I just want you to back up your claims, and explore this idea further.

  On 15/07/2013 at 09:17, Wolfmother said:

A recent article listed mfc fitness as an issue as other clubs had commented that we are doing all aerobic/long distance stuff and no power short burst work which is required for afl. They were interesting comments after the big deal that was made about our improved training

Without a really strong aerobic base, the recovery from these 'short bursts' would be slow and would render player useless until his oxygen deprivation diminishes.

  On 15/07/2013 at 09:21, Nasher said:

...21, 23, 24, 22, 22.

23, 23, 25, 22 (and built like a brick outhouse, why's he in this group?), 23.

The only one whose case I think you could argue as being close to complete development wise is Bail (and his problem is not size, it's just that he's no good), and maybe Grimes. The rest are still a long way off their peak size and shape, fitness and whatever other attributes you want to toss up.

If you're really claiming that you're comparing them to other players in the same age group, I'd like to see you present some evidence to support your claim that our players aren't on a comparable trajectory. And I mean real evidence, not something dismissive like "I can see it with my eyes". Eyes can be deceived.

Edit: Despite how it may come across, I'm not trying to argue that you're wrong about how our players' physical development is tracking relative to other clubs. You could be absolutely right. I'm also not saying with absolute certainty that it's purely because of age - reality is I don't know. I just want you to back up your claims, and explore this idea further.

I can't back it up with evidence. Only someone who has intimate knowledge of sports science/fitness or has access to the records of both Melbourne and Geelong could. Except for quotes from Rivers where he compared the intensity of trainings but said Geelong get more running in drills than we do but I can't even find the quotes yet along know how reliable it is.

I get what you mean about the eyes deceiving. Blease could easily have done what Murdoch did against the Hawks where he ran into space over the back and kicked a couple of goals to be the hero yet he plays in a hugely struggling side.

At the moment my thoughts with my eyes though are that we have done too much running laps and walking in Darwin and not enough high intensity training or getting the running done in drills.

  On 15/07/2013 at 09:17, Wolfmother said:

I always thought the fitness was below afl standard was an excuse for neeld to buy time... I can believe our list was young hence the standard base was lower but guys like jones and even green Moloney have been in the system and can't be that much lower... The previous fitness guy was from hawthorn bailey was from port they all understand afl standards

A recent article listed mfc fitness as an issue as other clubs had commented that we are doing all aerobic/long distance stuff and no power short burst work which is required for afl. They were interesting comments after the big deal that was made about our improved training

If you're trying to improve the long distance slow twitch fibres -- which allow more oxygen to keep the muscle working nicely for long periods of time -- you can't work on your quick burst fast twitch fibres at the same time (which allows for a quick burst of speed). They require two very different fitness regimes that collectively as a team may be different to train simultaneously. Obviously, considering the widespread inexperience and overall poor fitness, they wouldn't be able to maintain such a high level of fitness training. They appeared to struggle quite a bit in the early part of the season to stay within the contest beyond the first 15 minutes. This probably make sense considering how bombarded they admittedly were at training during the off-season.

They are probably fit for their current levels of experience, but unfit by AFL standards. There are many players in the same position in the team that are still below that threshold. Players like Howe appear to have only now started to last 4 quarters, while Blease struggles. Still.

It's probably more representative of the club's training regime over the past 4 years, but it's probably fair to give him a bit longer considering just how below standard they are.

I sometimes wonder if sports science tries to get too clever in an environment which isnt homogenous

I understand the difference between aerobic and anaerobic training methods... The reason I highlighted the comments was the suggestion by other clubs that we were not training for afl and our training techniques/methods were being questions

This obviously links into body shape and if the clubs is trying a different method as I believe both Watts and Moloney were told to lose weight from last season... Afl bodies were alot lighter seven years ago wonder if we are trying to head towards that model

last time i looked, lightness gets you knocked off your line

You may be right regarding the intensity at training but from my understanding the aerobic fitness of our players were at question when Misson started. I get the point about bigger bodies but those bodies need to run out the game so the aerobic base needs to be built and maintained whilst building the mass which I think is where we are at with some of the younger players. Also building mass is different for each individual so may take longer or shorter according to their own physical makeup. Unless we go down the bombers route where at the start of 12 all the commentators were saying how much they had bulked up under the weapon I that preseason.

I think Misson is doing an okay job he is not setting the world in fire but he is not making it worse. I can see that the boys have the capacity to run out games. Which to me is a win.

I do think that you are trivialising the Darwin trip. To say that it was a walk is a bit of understatement. I spent my teens and early twenties in the NT and the boys would have been training I mid to high 30s and 75% humidity. Hiking through Kakadu is not a leisurely stroll and I believe they did jog through parts of the track. That time if year is is bad just be thankful they weren't there in sept to nov that when it gets real bad

With the foot injury did you consider Joel Mac dropping a weight on his foot not add to the spate of these type of injuries.

  On 15/07/2013 at 11:10, the master said:

At the moment my thoughts with my eyes though are that we have done too much running laps and walking in Darwin and not enough high intensity training or getting the running done in drills.

Walking in Darwin? One day.

Yep, that explains everything.

  On 15/07/2013 at 20:13, bing181 said:

Walking in Darwin? One day.

Yep, that explains everything.

Oh the hawks should stop go to the kokoda track then that's just a walk,really that's just stupid for people to say it does not do anything, its called life experience

  On 15/07/2013 at 07:38, the master said:

No I'm asking why some of our players aren't the same size as Josh Caddy, Mitch Duncan, Steven Motlop, George HS, Jordan Murdoch, Billie Smedts - guys who are in the same age bracket.

Now from the guys who played on the weekend we had a few mature age guys in Matt Jones, Terlich and Clisby who I get it the first year of them in the AFL you'd focus a lot on fitness and making sure they can get through the season. Same for Toumpas and Kent as well as talls like Gawn, Tom McDonald and Fitzpatrick who both have decent frames and you don't want to overload them.

I suppose my criticism comes for players like Trengove, Nicholson, Grimes, Watts and Blease. None of which you'd label anything close to AFL top quality well rounded athletes in strength, size endurance and speed. You can add Jetta, McKenzie, Bail, Tapscott and Strauss.

My concern isn't so much that they have physical weaknesses because almost all AFL players do. That's part of what makes the game good. But my concern is that they seem to lack power. With those Geelong guys I mentioned some are quick, some are slow, some are strong some not so much but they all seem to bring a power attribute that helps them play AFL.

I went to school with Caddy and he has always been a good size. I can't speak for the other boys but my view is that they just draft blokes that have bigger frames and are bigger bodied 18 year olds than what we draft.

Is it just me or does anyone else notice Misson's look of utter contempt at Burgon on every injury update video?

  On 16/07/2013 at 01:12, Jman said:

Is it just me or does anyone else notice Misson's look of utter contempt at Burgon on every injury update video?

Seldom watch the videos Jman

But perhaps he is thinking I will be out of here at the end of the year and he will still be here.

How long does his contract go for anyone know?