Weak Club

[rpfc 27,572]

Fair comment.

Just looking as an outsider. He does appear happy doing what he does i agree. As to whether it's "love" of club or love of 'the role' or maybe 'love of game' who knows. If you know him or someone close to him who knows that it's definitely 'love of club' then happy to defer to your better judgement/knowledge RP.

I guess the point i was making was that he's a pro/veteran and that they aren't easy to find at this level with experience in the AFL as such.

Happy with him staying, provided he keeps his neo corporate theory/views within the bounds of the board/admin and not try and impose them (at least without board approval) onto the FD staff and players.

I understand.

I think the passion for the club was part of the problem that some saw with him.

As those Whiteboard sessions suggest - he is adamant about the Premiership Model that they have tried to deliver - young list, peaking at the same time, move on older players.

And I agree with his direction, but not the fervour with which he and CC were going about it.

I believe the senior players were upset with said fervour but CS and CC could point to those senior players and say that they were more to blame for the 2011 failure of the model rather than the decisions of teh club to move on experience and not play seasoned, if terribly inconsistent pros.

I understand I am getting into another area of argument here but I see it as so wrapped up with the future of CS and CC it is unavoidable.

[old dee 22,944]

I understand.

I think the passion for the club was part of the problem that some saw with him.

As those Whiteboard sessions suggest - he is adamant about the Premiership Model that they have tried to deliver - young list, peaking at the same time, move on older players.

And I agree with his direction, but not the fervour with which he and CC were going about it.

I believe the senior players were upset with said fervour but CS and CC could point to those senior players and say that they were more to blame for the 2011 failure of the model rather than the decisions of teh club to move on experience and not play seasoned, if terribly inconsistent pros.

I understand I am getting into another area of argument here but I see it as so wrapped up with the future of CS and CC it is unavoidable.

What you say makes a lot of sense but where did DB fit in this picture.

He seemed to me from the outside to be driving this headlong persuit of games into kids at the expense of all else.

[dee-luded 2,958]

A strong club does not have to live off the AFL's grants. That is all.

No, But a club Aspiring to be Strong and trying to get Up off the floor Does, or needs to at some point, now were up off our knees we must now Deemand the maximum for our efforts.

Scully should reap the compensation of the first pick from 2012 plus a compensatory pick for his furthered maturity and games development. This could be in the latter half of the first Rnd, but the first pick should be replacing our first priority pick.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

But don't rock the boat mate whatever you do.

Making persistent criticisms of the Club at every turn is "rocking the boat"??? You are kidding.

Any takers for affirmative action?

[demonage 0]

I dont think we are a weak club, i just feel as if we have a few incompetent people in our administration and since Jim

has been ill has has been unable to keep them dragged up to his impeccable level.

We should definitely fight for better compensation but in all seriousness, who have we got to do this?

The only person that can really do it and be heard is fighting for his life.

In saying this Scully gave us nothing this year. He was dispassionate and it showed with his average of 12 possessions

a game in his 10 games. He really does not deserve to wear a red and blue jumper and good riddance to him.

Hes gone from dandenong to blacktown. Seems like an excitng adventure hes about to embark on.

[old dee 22,944]

Making persistent criticisms of the Club at every turn is "rocking the boat"??? You are kidding.

Any takers for affirmative action?

Well I cannot help myself I have rise to the bait.

RR I have hardly said a negative word in the last 2 weeks In fact quite the opposite.

However can you drop your positive at all times crusade.

The MFC is not the greatest / best run club in the competition at the moment.

I have never seen a problem fixed by hiding it.

Letting the light in usually results in an improved position.

[bing181 8,176]

But don't rock the boat mate whatever you do.

Berating the club and running down all and sundry connected with it at every opportunity is your idea of "rocking the boat"??

[old dee 22,944]

Berating the club and running down all and sundry connected with it at every opportunity is your idea of "rocking the boat"??

Bing181 I am trying very hard to not get into a slanging match on this subject.

I really do not think being a sycophant helps much either.

[Pennant St Dee 11,350]

I do not believe we are a weak club, I do however believe we are currently in transition from previously being one of the weak clubs. As I have said in many threads a lot of progress has been made since 2007, these things take time. The debt demolition galvanised the supporter group.

The shake up from the Geelong game/Bailey sacking should see changes to benefit the footy department and the lack of distraction from the Scully situation should see a playing group with no resentment to an overpaid 3rd year player and there is a lot of boys who will have had their pride hurt by 2011

The Bailey appointment was what the club could afford at the time, things are vastly different this time, even if we don't get MM or RL this time I feel we have the finances to surround an untried senior coach with experienced assistants/directors of coaching

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Well I cannot help myself I have rise to the bait.

...I have never seen a problem fixed by hiding it.

Letting the light in usually results in an improved position.

I just dont see how making continuous anonymous slags at the club (not you) without any affirmative actions to rectify either "lets the light in" or indeed "rocks the boat". I dont see anything constructive or insightful in what is being said

I have never seen a problem fixed without first identifying the issue, understanding the implications and putting forward plausible and sensible solutions to resolve. Blind bleating and whining is self serving and does not constructive address anything.

While you are voice an opinion, recognise it as such and that its not fantasize thats its innnovative, revolutionary and shakes the establishment.

[old dee 22,944]

I do not believe we are a weak club, I do however believe we are currently in transition from previously being one of the weak clubs. As I have said in many threads a lot of progress has been made since 2007, these things take time. The debt demolition galvanised the supporter group.

The shake up from the Geelong game/Bailey sacking should see changes to benefit the footy department and the lack of distraction from the Scully situation should see a playing group with no resentment to an overpaid 3rd year player and there is a lot of boys who will have had their pride hurt by 2011

The Bailey appointment was what the club could afford at the time, things are vastly different this time, even if we don't get MM or RL this time I feel we have the finances to surround an untried senior coach with experienced assistants/directors of coaching

That covers it fairly well PSD. But the fix is not quite complete yet.

[Sir Why You Little 34,657]

I do not believe we are a weak club, I do however believe we are currently in transition from previously being one of the weak clubs. As I have said in many threads a lot of progress has been made since 2007, these things take time. The debt demolition galvanised the supporter group.

The shake up from the Geelong game/Bailey sacking should see changes to benefit the footy department and the lack of distraction from the Scully situation should see a playing group with no resentment to an overpaid 3rd year player and there is a lot of boys who will have had their pride hurt by 2011

The Bailey appointment was what the club could afford at the time, things are vastly different this time, even if we don't get MM or RL this time I feel we have the finances to surround an untried senior coach with experienced assistants/directors of coaching

Very Well Said....We are well on the way from being a weak club....But we still have a lot of Learning to do on the journey.

Was it DeeLuded who called them "Growing Pains"? A perfect analogy....as long as the playing group are all good & tight, last monday should make them stronger.

Edited September 14, 2011 by why you little

[old dee 22,944]

I just dont see how making continuous anonymous slags at the club (not you) without any affirmative actions to rectify either "lets the light in" or indeed "rocks the boat". I dont see anything constructive or insightful in what is being said

I have never seen a problem fixed without first identifying the issue, understanding the implications and putting forward plausible and sensible solutions to resolve. Blind bleating and whining is self serving and does not constructive address anything.

While you are voice an opinion, recognise it as such and that its not fantasize thats its innnovative, revolutionary and shakes the establishment.

This may surprise you RR but i do not believe our views are very far apart.

I just have a large mistrust of the 'its all ok things will get better" attitude.

Unless people make changes things usually do not get better.

Edited September 14, 2011 by old dee

[daisycutter 28,630]

Bing181 I am trying very hard to not get into a slanging match on this subject.

I really do not think being a sycophant helps much either.

Hmmm, agreed

probably the "realistic" commentary/debate approach lies somewhere between beration and sycophancy

...........but no-one will agree where that line lies

I guess that says nothing

carry on all

Edited September 14, 2011 by daisycutter

[Sir Why You Little 34,657]

I guess that says nothing

carry on all

Ha! DC.....We have all had a hard week!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This may surprise you RR but i do not believe our views are very far apart.

I just have a large mistrust of the 'its all ok things will get better" attitude.

Unless people make changes things usually do not get better.

Agree OD I think you will find I am definitely not sycophantic or rose coloured about MFC.

And I am certainly not saying "its all ok things will get better".

But I strugggle to reconcile rehashing old issues and dressing them for a big bagging of the Club is achieving anything. And it does not become anymore so because those that do it have to imply an erroneous assumption about those that dont.

Slagging off on this forum as has been evidenced in the past few weeks is not leading to any change. Its delusional to think that it does or will.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I dont think we are a weak club, i just feel as if we have a few incompetent people in our administration and since Jim

has been ill has has been unable to keep them dragged up to his impeccable level.

We should definitely fight for better compensation but in all seriousness, who have we got to do this?

The only person that can really do it and be heard is fighting for his life.

In saying this Scully gave us nothing this year. He was dispassionate and it showed with his average of 12 possessions

a game in his 10 games. He really does not deserve to wear a red and blue jumper and good riddance to him.

Hes gone from dandenong to blacktown. Seems like an excitng adventure hes about to embark on.

We have an 'Inbred' nature, born out of the mcc members culture. One of privilege.

Nothing like the suburban clubs which grow around a open neighborhood persuasion where all types are involved and accessed. This is reality in touch with the players.

Our players play and are infected with Political correctness and comfort. This eats at the very heart of 'Need', & Want !

We need Hunger from our supporters, and 'Deemanding' of our players, like Carlton had.

Edited September 14, 2011 by dee-luded

[daisycutter 28,630]

I just dont see how making continuous anonymous slags at the club (not you) without any affirmative actions to rectify either "lets the light in" or indeed "rocks the boat". I dont see anything constructive or insightful in what is being said

I have never seen a problem fixed without first identifying the issue, understanding the implications and putting forward plausible and sensible solutions to resolve. Blind bleating and whining is self serving and does not constructive address anything.

While you are voice an opinion, recognise it as such and that its not fantasize thats its innnovative, revolutionary and shakes the establishment.

these are all very noble words rhino, they could also be described as traditional defensive management spin

One should never however be deterred from identifying and discussing a problem just because one doesn't have a "plausible and sensible solution". That is an old chestnut designed to deter debate.

If you were to "moderate" your comments sometimes it might be more constructive

[bing181 8,176]

Bing181 I am trying very hard to not get into a slanging match on this subject.

I really do not think being a sycophant helps much either.

Who's being sycophantic?

[demonage 0]

We have an 'Inbred' nature, born out of the mcc members culture. One of privilege.

Nothing like the suburban clubs which grow around a open neighborhood persuasion where all types are involved and accessed. This is reality in touch with the players.

Our players play and are infected with Political correctness and comfort. this eatsat the very heart of 'Need', & Want !

We need Hunger from our supporters, and 'Deemanding' of our players, like Carlton had.

You've hit the nail on the head dude. We have way too many Brighton snooty nosed people working in our high end admin department.

No one wants to take note from anyone else nor do they want to take blame for their wrong doings.

We are well on our way to having a complete team of boys that bleed red & blue that wear our jumper with pride and distinction

and this stems from Jim. The pretenders are being weeded out and i do believe we are on the right track bar 2 or 3 people at board

level i really do believe should not be there.

[Sir Why You Little 34,657]

We have an 'Inbred' nature, born out of the mcc members culture. One of privilege.

Nothing like the suburban clubs which grow around a open neighborhood persuasion where all types are involved and accessed. This is reality in touch with the players.

Our players play and are infected with Political correctness and comfort. This eats at the very heart of 'Need', & Want !

We need Hunger from our supporters, and 'Deemanding' of our players, like Carlton had.

So i should feel Bad for paying my MCC membership last week??

But i also bought a premium Membership & i gave money to the 100% Melbourne Fund

I deeply apologize if i have offended.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You've hit the nail on the head dude. We have way too many Brighton snooty nosed people working in our high end admin department.

No one wants to take note from anyone else nor do they want to take blame for their wrong doings.

We are well on our way to having a complete team of boys that bleed red & blue that wear our jumper with pride and distinction

and this stems from Jim. The pretenders are being weeded out and i do believe we are on the right track bar 2 or 3 people at board

level i really do believe should not be there.

Can you name the Brighton types?

Can you explain what "bleeds red and blue" covers and why Junior, Miller did not necessarily bleed that stuff. And Cam Bruce , a Bluey winner, 10+ years, life member and over 200 games and he did not bleed red and blue interesting.

Care to name names on the Board who should not be there?

[rpfc 27,572]

What you say makes a lot of sense but where did DB fit in this picture.

He seemed to me from the outside to be driving this headlong persuit of games into kids at the expense of all else.

He was where a senior coach has to be - straddling both sides.

[demonage 0]

Can you name the Brighton types?

Can you explain what "bleeds red and blue" covers and why Junior, Miller did not necessarily bleed that stuff. And Cam Bruce , a Bluey winner, 10+ years, life member and over 200 games and he did not bleed red and blue interesting.

Care to name names on the Board who should not be there?

Brighton types meaning a few on our board. (will not name them!) Not that i have anythng against brighton but we need people who grew up on a not so affluent

side of town who knows what it means to work hard, to sternly voice an opinion and fight for what you love, not sit back and look adoringly at your paycheck.

Im still bleeding from the way Jimmy Mac was treated and the way he was sent on his way and i still feel as if Miller and Bruce

would still be required players at our club due to our platform base so definitely taking nothing away from them.

Cam Bruce was someone i always admired as a player and had the privilege of speaking to him a number of times but reality has it these

3 guys are no longer with the club for the same reason and those reasons still work for the MFC...

[old dee 22,944]

Who's being sycophantic?

Believe me bing181 I was not calling you one.

If you think I called you sycophant I am sorry that was not my intention.

Just trying to say that the other extreme is no better.