On 07/08/2011 at 08:38, Fan said:

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.

Still had to be said...The Club still does not demand enough of itself.

  On 07/08/2011 at 08:38, Fan said:

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.

I understand what you mean about a conflict of interest, but it can be handled, and is done so by others in the media with positions within football clubs.

But how does saying the effort was acceptable in an 80 point drumming help confidence. I would hope they would be being told it was 3 quarters of pure tripe, and they are capable of much much more. I think Green and Stynes are trying to sound positive to supporters and the media but I am having none of it. And obviously Lyon isn't either.

  On 07/08/2011 at 08:38, Fan said:

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.

Lyon is no more conflicted than anyone who works the media side as well as a Club role. He has the courage of his convictions , and his passion to offer up what needs to be heard. Hes obviously tired of some of these supposed professionals abdicating their responsibilities and offering up dross.

Here, at last, a fresh clear vision of where we're at.. The time for kid-glove glossing over the poor little darlings is over. Here we have someone who understands football at the coalface. Theres no shirking the contest nor the lamentable results presented to date.

Its actually time for Jim to step back as the designer of the recovery and allow the real tradesman to work the tools and build something.

As with any construction there will be some mess, some waste and a very real chance of bruises ( to egos ) .

Whilst Admin can be done white collar...the FD needs to be adressed as blue collar..

Go Garry !!!

  On 07/08/2011 at 08:38, Fan said:

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.

Fan, come on, the politically correct company line is the very false hood that perpetuates this 'miserable softness' that effects our club & stifles it's integrity.

Lyon is a straight shooter, even if he lacks some commitment. He is a warrior, of sorts.

He just needs to decide which team his Conscience lies with, the team of Diamonds, or the Team of Hearts!

The game was only the most marginal improvement on Geelong. We played for 20 minutes instead of one. Carlton clearly shut up shop after half time. If they had Geelong's killer instinct it would have been a 100 plus point loss. I don't accept Brad's explanation.

Leadership and culture are closely linked. If the players accept a culture of 'Oh well, we tried OK' and that is good enough, the leaders will lead to that cultural standard. We need to get rid of this leadership group self serving rubbish and get back to simple 'chiefs and indians' model. One chief, who has earned his stripes, and sets the standard. A lot of indians who do what they know they need to. Get rid of this rubbish 'soviet' leadership system and get back to being a football team.

Garry is saying as it is, as it should be, and hopefully as it will be. Thank god for a really passionate reality check from this bloke. A great than 10 goal loss is a shellacking, and is not acceptable.

  On 07/08/2011 at 09:31, Chicken Deelicious said:

Leadership and culture are closely linked. If the players accept a culture of 'Oh well, we tried OK' and that is good enough, the leaders will lead to that cultural standard. We need to get rid of this leadership group self serving rubbish and get back to simple 'chiefs and indians' model. One chief, who has earned his stripes, and sets the standard. A lot of indians who do what they know they need to. Get rid of this rubbish 'soviet' leadership system and get back to being a football team.

Garry is saying as it is, as it should be, and hopefully as it will be. Thank god for a really passionate reality check from this bloke. A great than 10 goal loss is a shellacking, and is not acceptable.

I like this this..

far too poignant for most ( unfortunately )

I fully understand mammoth treks are but journeys of steps , there really wasnt that quanitative leap of statement achieved this week.

And there should have been , Garry knew it. and said so.. Good. more of it please

Rusty Nails - you are spot on with our man JW! I watched the body language after Geelong and Carlton games..WATTS was the one encouraging the group...while GREEN sulked off the park.

As has been posted ad nauseum..Green can play great football...but he is a lousy Captain.

If Lyon has the balls to spill the leadership positions before a new coach comes on board, then I applaud him. Green needs to look in the mirror and accept captaincy is not his bag..(not the end of the world)

  On 07/08/2011 at 05:03, Rusty Nails said:

Although it's a little too late and unusual to change Captains at this point, Viney's appointment would have been a possibility to do so. However, he's already said he's a temp coach so this means he would've been quite reluctant to make any 'major' changes such as captaincy. Would be another ripple through the playing group as well. One i think was needed when it was obvious to all earlier in the season. We missed the boat, yet again.

That being said i agree with you BB. Lack of leadership on field and off this year (along with who knows what else has gone on behind the scenes in the admin/FD), has seen an ugly ending to our season.

Having seen what's gone on this year, and the year pretty much done and dusted now.....my nomination for our long term captain from next year, is a young man who's shown great progress, heart, spirit and some wonderful passages of creative play. He also finishes where many others, including most in our senior group, fail to.

In addition he shows me something i've seen sadly lacking in many of the senior leadership group so often in so many of the big games, especially at crucial times when the game's still in the balance. And that's 2nd and 3rd efforts and a will to get to many contests! He leads by example consistently week in & week out, with a few odd exceptions (to be expected given his age/inexperience), even when we're being pumped.

By a country mile.......JACK WATTS!

  On 07/08/2011 at 09:40, Dee Landing said:

Rusty Nails - you are spot on with our man JW! I watched the body language after Geelong and Carlton games..WATTS was the one encouraging the group...while GREEN sulked off the park.

As has been posted ad nauseum..Green can play great football...but he is a lousy Captain.

If Lyon has the balls to spill the leadership positions before a new coach comes on board, then I applaud him. Green needs to look in the mirror and accept captaincy is not his bag..(not the end of the world)

JW displayed anger and frustration - he showed that he hates losing. So did Trengove. McKenzie shows it in his play. The captain and vc should be any 2 of those 3.

The lack of leadership was particularly obvious when the heads started to drop after all those easy confidence sapping misses in the 1st qrtr. No one there to motivate and stop the morale loss. Carltank then kicked 11 in a row LED by THEIR captain (12 poss, 5 ga's, 2 goals). That's 66 points out of a 76 point loss!

  On 07/08/2011 at 08:38, Fan said:

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.

... which demonstrates perfectly that Lyon is the man for the job.

  On 07/08/2011 at 09:40, Dee Landing said:

Rusty Nails - you are spot on with our man JW! I watched the body language after Geelong and Carlton games..WATTS was the one encouraging the group...while GREEN sulked off the park.

As has been posted ad nauseum..Green can play great football...but he is a lousy Captain.

If Lyon has the balls to spill the leadership positions before a new coach comes on board, then I applaud him. Green needs to look in the mirror and accept captaincy is not his bag..(not the end of the world)

Easy being a keyboard critic and looking from afar. Don't know if i'm spot on but thanks for sharing your view. There's been plenty of us seeing the missing links (for quite a while now) leadership wise in this team.

Garry must surely see this as one of the key issues too.

I'm pretty sure he'll have the aggots to make some recommendations here. Would be an interesting question that i'd like to hear put to him by someone on his panels. Not sure if he'd be willing to open up fully though given what's ahead and review hasn't even begun. I'm betting he must already have some idea though.

My main concern is, if he's answering to the board, and the board isn't unified or there are factions etc...then his recommendations, or many of the key ones, wont be seriously dealt with. Will the board wipe most of his recommendations as they have supposedly done with the Andrews report?

In many ways i'd love Garry's final recommendations to be publicly available to members of the club to view for ourselves. I realise this isn't how these things work but ...given the apparent parlous state politically, i truly think we as members deserve to see some detail. Even if it's an abridged 'carve out' version made more suitable for public/member consumption. I think we deserve to see something from the review.

It's time for some serious transparency and honesty from the MFC to its members if we're to repair the nonsense of the last few weeks and move on and up as a unified club.

  On 07/08/2011 at 08:38, Fan said:

Nice pickup. It demonstrates Lyons clear conflict of interest. Was he speaking as a football media commentator (he was commenting on Triple M) or as his position as, well, whatever he is at Melbourne?

Stynes and Green were clearly trying to minimise the fractured confidence at the club.

Lyon wasn't.

I see your point, but I actually think that Stynes' comments probably came out the wrong way.

He was obviously proud of the fact that we went in harder this week than last, and that the player remained focused on footy despite all the drama, but I doubt he was proud or happy with the result.

We can't seriously be at a point again where we are accepting of a 70 point loss, unless we've gone back to tanking?

It's just silly to ever call a 12 goal loss a good effort, and heaven help us if we are ever happy with that because it's better than losing by 31 goals!

The players keep escaping the brunt of the media criticism, so it's about time someone came out and put it back onto them. Lyon is not my favourite person and I'm skeptical of the short lived role he's going to play at the club, but he is 100% correct with these comments. We should not be so forgiving and easy on our players, especially those who are meant to lead this club, because they have done a crap job of it this year.

It's a sad state of affairs that for two weeks running the only players who could leave the field satisfied are those who have played only a handful of games.

Sorry to say this Brad, but you're the worst captain of any club in my memory.

Dearly wanting to be a leader is a lot different to possessing adequate leadership skills, let alone being the type to lead an AFL club.

Unfortunately for him, he fell into the role by default, and his legacy will be tarnished as a result.

Unfortunately for us, we don't really have a better alternative right now.

I remember in the preesa after the 1st Hawthorn game when we got smashed B. Green said that it was a hiccup....and i remember thinkin hmmm interesting choice of words, i would hate to see a burp.....

  On 07/08/2011 at 13:57, Wadda We Sing said:

I remember in the preesa after the 1st Hawthorn game when we got smashed B. Green said that it was a hiccup....and i remember thinkin hmmm interesting choice of words, i would hate to see a burp.....

The Burp was at the Cattery....

Apparently Green has spoken to Neitz and Lyon on how to be a captain and play foward as well. If he cant deal with it dont do it.

I noticed on saturday a big difference between Green and other captains. Chris Judd was just sensational on saturday. In that 2nd quarter he just lifted his game to another level and led his team from the front. In the last half he was a bit quieter but he had done his job and put his team up by a winnable margin. You always know Jonathan Brown will do anything to inspire his club and Gary ablett is turning into a brilliant mentor to the younger players. Green on saturday did a few good things but was hardly inspiring. Mind you he wasnt alone in that.

Green was excellent last season. He just needs to focus on what he did right last season and go back to basics.

  On 07/08/2011 at 09:09, dee-luded said:

Fan, come on, the poltically correct company line is the very false hood that perpetuates this 'miserable softness' that effects our club & stifles it's integrity.

Lyon is a straight shooter, even if he lacks some commitment. He is a warrior, of sorts.

He just needs to decide which team his Conscience lies with, the team of Diamonds, or the Team of Hearts!

Unfortunately Fan epitomises this club's officials and the majority of supporters.

The culture at the MFC is crap because the leadership group is amongst the worst in the AFL. The leadership group sets the tone for the team and ultimately the entire club. It's going to take time before the next batch of leaders are able to stamp their authority on the club. In the meantime we'll have to put up with the platitudes that are routinely dished up by those that are currently steering the agenda.

Oh for the day that this club gets some backbone. On the field and off it.

  On 07/08/2011 at 14:03, why you little said:

The Burp was at the Cattery....

no that was swine flu

  On 08/08/2011 at 00:34, The Tweed Pig said:

Unfortunately Fan epitomises this club's officials and the majority of supporters.

The culture at the MFC is crap because the leadership group is amongst the worst in the AFL. The leadership group sets the tone for the team and ultimately the entire club. It's going to take time before the next batch of leaders are able to stamp their authority on the club. In the meantime we'll have to put up with the platitudes that are routinely dished up by those that are currently steering the agenda.

Oh for the day that this club gets some backbone. On the field and off it.

We need to get this clubs mentality out of the "Long Room" and into Sweat House.

I applaud the notion of the club embracing its Heritage and romancing about past glories but you cant help but think at times the Club is just stuck in the 50's. Its never really moved forward from those halycon days.

i.e Things are sh!t ...but ahhh, remember the Smith/Barassi era... Things are still crap...but weve always got Checker.. !!

Were not just a Victorian team were almost a Victorian era one . All rah rah ...

You just dont get the impression theres enough 'realism ' about the club at times.

  On 08/08/2011 at 00:34, The Tweed Pig said:

Unfortunately Fan epitomises this club's officials and the majority of supporters.

The culture at the MFC is crap because the leadership group is amongst the worst in the AFL. The leadership group sets the tone for the team and ultimately the entire club. It's going to take time before the next batch of leaders are able to stamp their authority on the club. In the meantime we'll have to put up with the platitudes that are routinely dished up by those that are currently steering the agenda.

Oh for the day that this club gets some backbone. On the field and off it.

I don't intend to get into a slanging match but I'd point out that at no stage did I suggest Lyon's comments were wrong and at no stage have I commented on Green's leadership. I have not commented on the Clubs leadership on field or off in this thread.

I pointed out that Jimmy and Brad delivered the same message. I pointed out Lyon has a conflict of interest.

Green has still got something to give, he needs to be played as a permanent full-forward and drop the Captaincy and give it to Jack Trengove

  On 08/08/2011 at 00:57, Fan said:

I don't intend to get into a slanging match but I'd point out that at no stage did I suggest Lyon's comments were wrong and at no stage have I commented on Green's leadership. I have not commented on the Clubs leadership on field or off in this thread.

I pointed out that Jimmy and Brad delivered the same message. I pointed out Lyon has a conflict of interest.

My apologies.

I'll accept that when it comes to Green and the club's leadership that you have absolutely and positively no comment. Fair enough.

Just let it go, Hannabal.

You're becoming as tiresome as you think I am...

I am not certain whether Trengove is ready for it next year but the under 24 brigade should select a LG from themselves and they can decide what to do about the captaincy.

Either one captain from inside or outside the group, or shared captaincy.

If I was to ponder who would be in that LG it would resemble - Frawley, Garland, Trengove, Scully, Watts, Grimes, Jones, and McKenzie. With one or more of Grimes, Jones, and Frawley sharing the captaincy. Maybe Watts and Trengove aswell but I don't know...

  On 08/08/2011 at 00:34, The Tweed Pig said:

Unfortunately Fan epitomises this club's officials and the majority of supporters.

The culture at the MFC is crap because the leadership group is amongst the worst in the AFL. The leadership group sets the tone for the team and ultimately the entire club. It's going to take time before the next batch of leaders are able to stamp their authority on the club. In the meantime we'll have to put up with the platitudes that are routinely dished up by those that are currently steering the agenda.

Oh for the day that this club gets some backbone. On the field and off it.

The Trouble is everyone who gets into a position of Authority within our club, is infected with this Political Correct 'status' crap,,, being polite and hold your fork correct. etc etc...

These guys get caught in this 'Status' viscious circle, and we lose our Warriors, because that sort of Rif Raf isn't condoned within the Long Rooms of the Power based beautiful people. Trouble is were not playing Tiddle EE Winks...

Actually our trouble Is that we ARE!!! We've bought into that softness.

  On 08/08/2011 at 00:53, belzebub59 said:

We need to get this clubs mentality out of the "Long Room" and into Sweat House.

I applaud the notion of the club embracing its Heritage and romancing about past glories but you cant help but think at times the Club is just stuck in the 50's. Its never really moved forward from those halycon days.

i.e Things are sh!t ...but ahhh, remember the Smith/Barassi era... Things are still crap...but weve always got Checker.. !!

Were not just a Victorian team were almost a Victorian era one . All rah rah ...

You just dont get the impression theres enough 'realism ' about the club at times.

The sooner we setup change rooms in the Great Southern Stand, with players Social rooms and supporter function rooms there, the sooner we will become a harder team..

Memo: All MCC members would be welcome to attend.