Howe do we Cook with Watts & LJ ?

[H_T 3,047]

Three guys impressed me on the weekend, two in the Queens Birthday clash and one at Casey playing Collingwood.

Jeremy Howe has only played a couple of games with Melbourne. Big fixtures at that. Essendon & Collingwood. He has shown a great deal on the big stage. Good solid mark, good leap and promising to say the least.

Lucas Cook really impressed me with his work ethic and presenting against Collingwood. Kicking quite a few goals, marking well and a real KP player we've been craving for up forward.

Jack Watts has taken some big steps in the last month/month and a half. Some have described him as a player for the future as just a good AFL player and that's about it. I beg to differ. I think he is coming into his own and now starting to show that competitive streak and ability in him the recruiters saw when they first drafted him.

One can only imagine what will come to fruition once these guys get a greater understanding of each other's game as they progress. Definitely a must watch for any Melbourne supporter.

Collectively with Liam Jurrah they at this early stage provide promising forward targets. It will be interesting to see what transpires position wise with all four players.

Anyone interested in discussing their own thoughts on potential future structures up forward with these guys ?

I was thinking Howe and Cook at half forward with Jurrah and Watts deeper up forward eventually. They could all effectively rotate with each other depending upon match-ups etc. But I'd like Jurrah closer to goal.

[RudeBoy 164]

Ideally I'd like Jamar in the goal square with Liam alongside him in the forward pocket. At present it's pretty clear that Liam is taking some time to adjust to a new role further up the ground. He's got all the attributes to succeed in this new role, but he's definitely on a learning curve. I just hope that the evolving structures of the modern game do not take great leaping for marks out of the game. This would be a shame, as we all know just how damaging Liam can be in the air, especially if the ball is kicked down forward quickly enough.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Howe playing Full Forward. Is roughly the same dimensions as Jack Riewoldt and similar tricks I reckon. Also looks to have a decent frame to build upon.

Cook looked great close to goal, but his ability to spot up targets would also be useful up the ground.

The other 2 can play anywhere really. Jurrah would be awesome on a wing if he finds a way to stay involved. Still not sure about Watts deep, he may develop the strength, but his agililty and skills are wasted there for mine.

I suppose none of them are really cooked, until we see how they fill out, what tank they possess etc it makes these predictions tricky.

[Rogue 585]

I don't think we'd have a problem fitting those four into the forward line. As you've said, there's plenty of scope for flexibility.

It'd be a nice problem to have, so let's hope we have to worry about it at some point in the future

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

great title firstly!

secondly what i like the most about those 4 players in the make up of a foward line is that they are all versatile, in that they will be ale to play a multitude of roles in the forward half, which when they are all fully developed, will lead to the opposition having a very tough time. ideally Watts will and cook will play almost a dawes and cloke role, both being able to play deep and then swap up depending on opponents and play as hit up targets. jurrah is best suited to a roll where he is albe to crumb off these types of forwards or offer a secondary lead which is perfect seeing as his engine is questionale and definitely would struggle with repeat running through the centre. howe high leading forward, all reports say he has a massive engine, which is a little bit suprising seeing as he came from the tassie leagues after a year of injury, but pushing forward and running hard into 50 will be perfect for him.

but the fact is, we could effectively leave any one of these forwards one out, once they are fully developed and i would back them into winning the contest, which is going to be extremely dangerous in the future.

thirdly, they all use the ball so well, watts is nearly the best field kick in the team, and more often than not is very damaging with his kick, 1st quarter 2 goal assists to sylvia is a highlight to this. cook has been using it exceptionally in the vfl. jurrah has an awesome disposal more often than not and howe plays the percentages really well, this is another reason why i feel that the rotation throughout positions will work perfectly as if cook, watts, howe or jurrah get the ball outside 50 i can see them all hitting each other on the [censored] with pin point passes.

again though like you said, watts and jurrah deeper and cook and howe up forward, although i feel that watts with his massive engine aswell can do serious damage up the field, i am pretty sure that our fwd 50 will have heaps of rotations thus making it hard for opposition defenders to adjust aswell.

[biggestred 5,088]

ideally id like them all to have another 3 preseasons and another 70 games each.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Ideally I'd like Jamar in the goal square with Liam alongside him in the forward pocket. At present it's pretty clear that Liam is taking some time to adjust to a new role further up the ground. He's got all the attributes to succeed in this new role, but he's definitely on a learning curve. I just hope that the evolving structures of the modern game do not take great leaping for marks out of the game. This would be a shame, as we all know just how damaging Liam can be in the air, especially if the ball is kicked down forward quickly enough.

I don't mind the idea of a big body beside Jurrah. I have noticed that in the lead up to a marking contest he is being checked by defenders. Another big body might be able to block and make space for him, or take some focus away.

EDIT: We know that Liam can crumb a few too.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Pun-tastic thread title.

I don't anticipate this glut of forwards being a problem.

In fact, we have a good mix and they should all fit in there.

Petterd too, and a few smalls.

[H_T 3,047]

Pun-tastic thread title.

I don't anticipate this glut of forwards being a problem.

In fact, we have a good mix and they should all fit in there.

Petterd too, and a few smalls.

I don't mean to see it as a problem as such. It's a good problem. I'd like the discussion to include individual posters thoughts on how they would see it structure up. More or less their preferences of structure.

ie. FWDS: Bennell Watts Jurrah

H-FWDS: Sylvia Cook Howe

?? etc/

[Guest Artie Bucco]

To be honest, I think those structures are obsolete (ie. 3 x HF line and 3 x F line).

It's more about leading patterns and spacing.

And I think a bench player needs to be taken into consideration, as at least one of them would be rotated through the forward line.

But, I'd say it will be versatile.

- Watts will be able to play FF, but also switch to up on the wing. A lot like Richo actually.

- Howe could play 1 out in the goalsquare and sit on his mid-sized opponent's head, but would be best used as a flanker.

- Cook would be better utilised on the HF line.

- Jurrah looks a bit lost further afield, but I think he will become comfortable with time and recovery from his injuries.

- Sylvia is a great mid/forward in the Ricciuto mold.

- Wonaeamirri is better than he has shown this year, for obvious reasons.

- Petterd is versatile enough to play back and the middle, and when forward can use his marking prowess to exploit smaller defenders.

F: Jurrah / Watts / Wonaeamirri

HF: Sylvia / Cook / Howe

Bench: Petterd

[Rogue 585]

I don't mean to see it as a problem as such. It's a good problem. I'd like the discussion to include individual posters thoughts on how they would see it structure up. More or less their preferences of structure.

ie. FWDS: Bennell Watts Jurrah

H-FWDS: Sylvia Cook Howe

?? etc/

Players seem to change so much during games, let alone during a season or career, that it's hard to nail down.

It's not like the discussions we might have had when Neitz and Schwarz were going around, in which there seemed to be more consistency of roles, and discussions going back further than that in which players generally kept to a position.

Add that to the fact that Cook hasn't debuted and Howe has only played a couple, and thus it's tough to have much great insight into those guys unless you've been getting to Casey games regularly, and it makes it even tougher.

That said, Jurrah predominantly close to goal seems the way to go, although his delivery into the 50 can be very good.

Cook seems to be suited to pushing up the ground and playing as a lead-up 'CHF' type, based on what I've read of his Casey adventures.

I would have thought Howe might be nice playing a bit closer to goal, while I'm not sure about Watts. If he was to play a CHF-type role I'd like to see him kicking the ball longer when he wins the footy on a lead, whereas his preference now seems to be shorter kicks.

As others have said, I agree that having a tall target deep would be nice. DB has also said this, so I'm sure we'll see it a bit in future - particularly if Martin can at least provide a contest deep in the way that someone like Ben Holland did.

[H_T 3,047]

To be honest, I think those structures are obsolete (ie. 3 x HF line and 3 x F line).

It's more about leading patterns and spacing.

And I think a bench player needs to be taken into consideration, as at least one of them would be rotated through the forward line.

But, I'd say it will be versatile.

- Watts will be able to play FF, but also switch to up on the wing. A lot like Richo actually.

- Howe could play 1 out in the goalsquare and sit on his mid-sized opponent's head, but would be best used as a flanker.

- Cook would be better utilised on the HF line.

- Jurrah looks a bit lost further afield, but I think he will become comfortable with time and recovery from his injuries.

- Sylvia is a great mid/forward in the Ricciuto mold.

- Wonaeamirri is better than he has shown this year, for obvious reasons.

- Petterd is versatile enough to play back and the middle, and when forward can use his marking prowess to exploit smaller defenders.

F: Jurrah / Watts / Wonaeamirri

HF: Sylvia / Cook / Howe

Bench: Petterd

Agree on the versatility and the thoughts on the 3 x HF, 3 x FWDS being obsolete - they just have to be named. Also agree on the bench rotation.

Assistant coaches often just refer to them as the forward 6 or back 6 nowadays.

Pretty much similar in thoughts on Petterd - Morton being my other. But at the moment I see him as being utilised just about everywhere including the wing. I just hope he kicks on tbh.

Bennell for Wonaeamirri being the difference as small forward. I'm just unsure where Wonaeamirri is at, I hope he proves me wrong.

Could have thrown other options in: Maric, Jetta, or even Davey.

On small forwards:

I look around at all small forwards and I compare the quality: McGlynn, LeCras, Stokes, Blair, Krakouer, Garlett, Betts, Monfries, Osborne, Rioli, Milne, Gray, Banfield, Ballantyne, L.Jetta.....and I think we could do better in this small department.

[kegs 0]

With the emergence of Martin in the ruck I think it would be a good idea to have Jamar spend more time in the FF role as he would without a doubt have to be manned up with their best defender, next to him the likes of Jurrah although if he does not work on his defensive side then I would go with Pettard. As collingwood showed if you can lock the ball in deep in your forward line then the goals will come very fast and easily. I think jurrah would make a very good CHF with his very accurate kicking action (last weekend aside) and have Howe and cook filling in when the holes open up. Although obviously not what he was drafted for I think Watts would make an excellent CHB as he reads the ball as good as anyone in our team and his ability by foot is already up their with our best kickers and will only get better in time

[H_T 3,047]

Players seem to change so much during games, let alone during a season or career, that it's hard to nail down.

It's not like the discussions we might have had when Neitz and Schwarz were going around, in which there seemed to be more consistency of roles, and discussions going back further than that in which players generally kept to a position.

Add that to the fact that Cook hasn't debuted and Howe has only played a couple, and thus it's tough to have much great insight into those guys unless you've been getting to Casey games regularly, and it makes it even tougher.

That said, Jurrah predominantly close to goal seems the way to go, although his delivery into the 50 can be very good.

Cook seems to be suited to pushing up the ground and playing as a lead-up 'CHF' type, based on what I've read of his Casey adventures.

I would have thought Howe might be nice playing a bit closer to goal, while I'm not sure about Watts. If he was to play a CHF-type role I'd like to see him kicking the ball longer when he wins the footy on a lead, whereas his preference now seems to be shorter kicks.

As others have said, I agree that having a tall target deep would be nice. DB has also said this, so I'm sure we'll see it a bit in future - particularly if Martin can at least provide a contest deep in the way that someone like Ben Holland did.

You make some valid points. Both Jurrah and Watts' delivery inside 50 can be good. Both can pinpoint a leading target. I agree on Watts kicking longer, but that depends what is on offer in amongst zones. If it's to the top of the goal square for a contest all well and good.

Having a tall target would be nice deep in the forward line, a la a Mark Jamar to change things up a bit. All of Jurrah, Watts, Howe and even Cook eventually should be able to offer a contest deep.

[rpfc 28,431]

I would have thought Howe might be nice playing a bit closer to goal, while I'm not sure about Watts. If he was to play a CHF-type role I'd like to see him kicking the ball longer when he wins the footy on a lead, whereas his preference now seems to be shorter kicks.

Kicked a ripper 50m pass to Sylvia on the Members wing.

[Rogue 585]

Kicked a ripper 50m pass to Sylvia on the Members wing.

Okay.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Agree on the versatility and the thoughts on the 3 x HF, 3 x FWDS being obsolete - they just have to be named. Also agree on the bench rotation.

Assistant coaches often just refer to them as the forward 6 or back 6 nowadays.

Pretty much similar in thoughts on Petterd - Morton being my other. But at the moment I see him as being utilised just about everywhere including the wing. I just hope he kicks on tbh.

Morton will kick on, no question in my mind.

I see him as being someone that plays further afield, on a HBF or a wing, then exposes his man for not playing tight, getting out the back when we force a turnover and streaming into the forward line to mark unopposed. Having him as a mainstay forward almost negates that ability of his, unless he's a high roaming forward, but Watts & Cook will do that. He'll be slipping into the space they create with long leads.

Bennell for Wonaeamirri being the difference as small forward. I'm just unsure where Wonaeamirri is at, I hope he proves me wrong.

Could have thrown other options in: Maric, Jetta, or even Davey.

I see Bennell as a small defender that can go forward, and I think the football dept do too.

Maric, I think, would be doing a lot better at a better team.

Davey is a definite option as he gets older, and I agree on Jetta.

Neville is primarily a mid, but flankers/pockets need to be able to play as a mid now, and his tackling & pressure is handy in the F50.

On small forwards:

I look around at all small forwards and I compare the quality: McGlynn, LeCras, Stokes, Blair, Krakouer, Garlett, Betts, Monfries, Osborne, Rioli, Milne, Gray, Banfield, Ballantyne, L.Jetta.....and I think we could do better in this small department.

I agree, definitely.

I think ours are starved of opportunity however, with few tall targets to crumb off, less F50 entries and less quality on the ones we do get.

The performance of our small forwards is indirectly affected by our under-developed midfield.

[H_T 3,047]

I agree, definitely.

I think ours are starved of opportunity however, with few tall targets to crumb off, less F50 entries and less quality on the ones we do get.

The performance of our small forwards is indirectly affected by our under-developed midfield.

Valid point. I can't argue that. What I would prefer to see though is our small forwards getting "dangerous" ie positioning themselves well and pouncing at front & centre contests with cleaner pick-ups and quality finishes.

Sometimes I look at the likes of Carlton, Hawthorn forwards, Milne at St.Kilda and I think, "now that's what I'm talkin' about".

[MadAsHell 4,212]

I'd be keen to go

HF: Howe, Watts, Petterd

FF: Jurrah, Cook, Wonna

Howe and Watts I'd look to play higher, Watts for his delivery into the forward 50 and his ability to blow his opponent up through out a match (ala Nick Riewoldt) which I think Watts will develop.

Howe also I'd like up higher for his mobility, marking and tackling pressure that he can bring also.

Petterd I'd put on the oppositions most damaging half back, like a Heath Shaw or Chris Yarran. Try and take them away from the play but also have the ability to hurt them in our attacking 50 with his over head abilities.

I like Cook deep. From what I've seen of him at Casey he's a great one grab mark and kick at goal. Looks like a young Dvid Neitz to me, although I don't want to get ahead of myself.

Wonna is the perfect crumbing forward, just get front and square of Cook's contests, hopefully he comes back at his best, Maric could still be an option for this role also, same with Jetta.

Then the Jurracaine is the perfect mid sized forward to cap it all off. Dangerous in the air and deadly on the ground, he can play both Cook, and Wonna's roles, and close to goal is where he'll be most dangerous.

As for Jamar I'm happy for him to be rucking the whole time he's on the ground. Martin can play down back as our gorilla keeper but also chop out in the ruck when Russian needs a rest, with Rivers, Frawley & Garland all playing, they'll be able to cover Martin's ruck stints when needed.

Also look out for Jack Fitzpatrick to play deep forward also whenever a Watts, Cook, Jurrah or Howe is to miss. Fitzpatrick will be able to ultinate between deep forward and ruck with Jamar while others push up higher, allowing Martin to stay permanatly in defence for those games.

Edit: Spelling of Jurrah.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Tall Defence

[PartyTimeJohnny 537]

Great post!

I think Liam is at his best when he's not a point of focus inside 50, for any other player i would say that's not good enough but Liam is too damn awesome. Cook is going to be a classic full forward, he's a big lad who loves the lead. From what i've seen of Jack this season i think he's beginning to find his position; i love to watch him around the CHF position pushing cosntantly with his big engine and size.

in a year or two i'd love to see this...

HF - Petterd/Watts/Howe

F - Wonaemirri/Cook/Jurrah

[H_T 3,047]

Also look out for Jack Fitzpatrick to play deep forward also whenever a Watts, Cook, Jurrah or Howe is to miss. Fitzpatrick will be able to ultinate between deep forward and ruck with Jamar while others push up higher, allowing Martin to stay permanatly in defence for those games.

Edit: Spelling of Jurrah.

Fitzy, now there's a bloke (pick 51) that's been spruiked about by CC (Chris Connolly) in a good light before. Haven't heard much since. Much progress to undertake still.

[Samsara 65]

Kicked a ripper 50m pass to Sylvia on the Members wing.

Gee that was a lovely pass. Shame some of his shorter disposals were woeful early on. Still, I am really happy with his progress.

[drdrake 3,163]

The forward line is one area we have some depth more the mid size players with Sylvia, Green, Howe, Dunn, Bate, Petterd, Jurrah. Our tall otpions are limited to a resting ruckman, Watts and Cook so we need to continue to look for tall fowards but the real area for concern is our small forwards Aussie, Maric, Bennell, Davey and Tapscott, we need someone to stand up from these guys. With the players we have I would love for us to line up

Howe Cook Tapscott

Davey Watts Jurrah

Sylvia into the middle of the ground, Davey back front and square and the bull Tapscott to give us the hard edged long kicking HFF. Get Tapscott out of the back line, we want him getting kicks on the wing pumping it long into our forward line or from outside 50m slotting them through.

[Rogue 585]

The forward line is one area we have some depth more the mid size players with Sylvia, Green, Howe, Dunn, Bate, Petterd, Jurrah. Our tall otpions are limited to a resting ruckman, Watts and Cook so we need to continue to look for tall fowards but the real area for concern is our small forwards Aussie, Maric, Bennell, Davey and Tapscott, we need someone to stand up from these guys. With the players we have I would love for us to line up

Howe Cook Tapscott

Davey Watts Jurrah

Sylvia into the middle of the ground, Davey back front and square and the bull Tapscott to give us the hard edged long kicking HFF. Get Tapscott out of the back line, we want him getting kicks on the wing pumping it long into our forward line or from outside 50m slotting them through.

If we're not replacing Tapscott with someone who can deliver the footy from defence then we're robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Strauss?