Who are the teams we are good at/bad at playing

[Guest DeesPower]

for us to progress into the eight, and even top four there are several teams we need to over come psycholigically. In my view the teams we are worst at plying in the last four years are:

Hawthorn : our record against them have been very bad. Franklin and their mid field seem to be all over us, even when they played us at the beginning of last year without a recognized ruckman and without Franklin. I personally don't see this changing this year, and expect Bruce to play a blinder on us.

Kangaroos: considering where they are at in rebuilding, we should do better against them than we do. In the two games last year. Frankly, in both games we were out-coached. We should do better this year

Carlton: the blues seem to be able to get under our skin too easily. Davey in particular seems to be unable tobreak the shackles avaunt them, but they are a team we should play better against. IMO we have a more talented list than them

I exclude Geelong and the Saints from this list - they have been the elite over this period and we have probably played as well against them as could be expected. I would expect though we will go very close to beating both this year as we improve and both of them go backwards.

Sides we match up well on in my view are Magpies, bulldogs, Port, swans, Dons, tigers, lions, and this should continue

Thoughts about what we need to do to overcome these challenges?

[Grandson of a gun 276]

for us to progress into the eight, and even top four there are several teams we need to over come psycholigically. In my view the teams we are worst at plying in the last four years are:

Hawthorn : our record against them have been very bad. Franklin and their mid field seem to be all over us, even when they played us at the beginning of last year without a recognized ruckman and without Franklin. I personally don't see this changing this year, and expect Bruce to play a blinder on us.

Kangaroos: considering where they are at in rebuilding, we should do better against them than we do. In the two games last year. Frankly, in both games we were out-coached. We should do better this year

Carlton: the blues seem to be able to get under our skin too easily. Davey in particular seems to be unable tobreak the shackles avaunt them, but they are a team we should play better against. IMO we have a more talented list than them

I exclude Geelong and the Saints from this list - they have been the elite over this period and we have probably played as well against them as could be expected. I would expect though we will go very close to beating both this year as we improve and both of them go backwards.

Sides we match up well on in my view are Magpies, bulldogs, Port, swans, Dons, tigers, lions, and this should continue

Thoughts about what we need to do to overcome these challenges?

You have most right there i think DP.

The Hawks flat out just bully us. Have done for years. It is the same way Geelong play against us and until we can bully back we will not beat either of them. It is mental as much as physical but Melbourne need to come out and have a relentless attack on the ball and the man when they have the ball.

The saints on the other hand beat us because of their superior ability to play shut down footy. We hung well with them last year, their talent beat us in the end. As we get better at executing our game plan and skills we will get closer to a team like the Saints.

I honestly don't know what it is about the Kangas. We have the talent, no question to beat them. It is purely mental this one. Probably the same as our ability to match up well with Collingwood and Essendon.

The blues probably have a more talented and experienced list (at this stage) but i agree we should be able to play better against them. I think they are in the North boat a bit too.

You left the Bombers off the list and i believe we have matched up well against them for a few years now. Will be interesting how we go when they play under Hird's game plan but we should still beat them...

For a lot of these teams, it's just a matter of us playing our better footy more consistently and for longer periods. Our best is great. Our worst is horrid. More consistency and being more ruthless are the two big keys for me.

[DemonDing 56]

Port and the crows at aami, you can pretty much tick that off as

A loss, I don't think we could beat an under 13's girls netball team

There!! For some reason Im always quietly confindent when we play

The swans

[jnrmac 20,094]

I think some other sides know they can beat Melbourne and play accordingly. I remember talking to an ex-player (Ess) from another club who said they loved playing Melbourne because they were pretty soft. Take that for what it was - a throwaway line - but I took it to mean that we were easily physically intimidated. Which I think is generally right.

When there is a flare up we don't have an 'enforcer/enforcers' who stand up and create a bit of havoc. Think Dean Wallis I guess.

Ess are a club that beat us for a long time and one that I personally hate more than any other club. Last two years we have done OK against them because they are useless but before that it was always painful - even when we were playing well.

[John Crow Batty 8,869]

I agree with Grandson of a Gun with more consistency and ruthlessness and also jnrmac. But is it going to happen? Judging from last seasons performances this team has not shaken off its perennial losers mentality. The difficulty is getting the team to switch on for most or all 22 games. Too many times last season we didn't show up to play against sides we were evenly or better matched. Not that we were outplayed but we didn't come to play at all. This is a long standing problem. Another telling game IMO although we won it was against Richmond late in the season. Played like millionaires against a weak side that played with spirit. We are still demonstrating all the "full of ourselves" habits when we smell success that have been around this club from the late Northey to the end of Daniher eras.

Edited January 5, 2011 by america de cali

[Keyser Söze 0]

That was a widely held perception of the club & it was probably due to all the soft players we had in the side.

[Deetective Sgt. Taggert 389]

That was a widely held perception of the club & it was probably due to all the soft players we had in the side.

Brad Miller was drafted on the grounds on being the toughest kid in the draft to attempt to fill this void. Not sure if it could be said that it really achieved much, just ending up with him getting reported too often.

From the reports from pre-season training to does sound like there is a bit more aggro within the group coming from the like's of Frawley and Moloney, so maybe that represents an changing attitude.

Hopefully Moloney's initiative with the boxing will also make a difference...

Edited January 5, 2011 by Ascobar

[H_T 3,047]

I agree with Grandson of a Gun with more consistency and ruthlessness and also jnrmac. But is it going to happen? Judging from last seasons performances this team has not shaken off its perennial losers mentality. The difficulty is getting the team to switch on for most or all 22 games. Too many times last season we didn't show up to play against sides we were evenly or better matched. Not that we were outplayed but we didn't come to play at all. This is a long standing problem. Another telling game IMO although we won it was against Richmond late in the season. Played like millionaires against a weak side that played with spirit. We are still demonstrating all the "full of ourselves" habits when we smell success that have been around this club from the late Northey to the end of Daniher eras.

This reads like one of my posts back in 2008.

We've improved since then. These issues I think have been addressed or are being addressed, and with *maturity comes expectation on performance - consistent high level performance.

* Maturity = Strengthened and durable bodies with experience, higher level of footy smarts and application. (Also = the answer to the OP's question).

(ref = me.)

[Keyser Söze 0]

Brad Miller was drafted on the grounds on being the toughest kid in the draft to attempt to fill this void. Not sure if it could be said that it really achieved much, just ending up with him getting reported too often.

From the reports from pre-season training to does sound like there is a bit more aggro within the group coming from the like's of Frawley and Moloney, so maybe that represents an changing attitude.

Hopefully Moloney's initiative with the boxing will also make a difference...

It is a cultural thing that changes with personnel and as we've had a lot of list turnover in recent yeads, I'm content that we have eradicated it, whether the perception remains or not.

If it does, then some teams are in for a rude shock...

[WonnaJurah 5]

Richmond and Port away from SA seem to be ones we always win, the ones that bother us are the Eagles, n idea how they beat us at the g last year an of course the Roos

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Here's the awful, awful truth:

North: lost last 8 times

Geelong: lost last 6, then a draw

Hawks: lost last 6

Saints: lost last 5

Dogs: lost the last 4

Collingwood: draw, lost 5 in a row before that

Adelaide: lost 9 of the last 12

Port: lost 5 of the last 7

Sydney: lost 5 of the last 6

WCE: lost 6 of the last 8

Carlton: lost last 3

Essendon: lost 3 of the last 4

Freo: lost 6 of the last 8

Brisbane: won 3 of the last 4

Richmond: won 3 of the last 4

record last 4 years: 20 wins 1 draw 67 losses

[biggestred 5,099]

this doesnt mean much when you are getting smacked by everyone for 3 years in a row....

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Here's the awful, awful truth:

North: lost last 8 times

Geelong: lost last 6, then a draw

Hawks: lost last 6

Saints: lost last 5

Dogs: lost the last 4

Collingwood: draw, lost 5 in a row before that

Adelaide: lost 9 of the last 12

Port: lost 5 of the last 7

Sydney: lost 5 of the last 6

WCE: lost 6 of the last 8

Carlton: lost last 3

Essendon: lost 3 of the last 4

Freo: lost 6 of the last 8

Brisbane: won 3 of the last 4

Richmond: won 3 of the last 4

record last 4 years: 20 wins 1 draw 67 losses

Thanks for that C & B. It is disgusting but it is skewed slightly though as during that time we just entered the post Dannaher era with a shizen team and we were in list clean out / development / win management mode to ensure the best chance of long term future success.

Even during that time we matched up well against some teams, but with others it was the apparent lack of mental application and physical attack on the ball and man that was sorely missing.

Hopefully in 2011 we will end some of these pathetic loss streaks....

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Thanks for that C & B. It is disgusting but it is skewed slightly though as during that time we just entered the post Dannaher era with a shizen team and we were in list clean out / development / win management mode to ensure the best chance of long term future success.

Even during that time we matched up well against some teams, but with others it was the apparent lack of mental application and physical attack on the ball and man that was sorely missing.

Hopefully in 2011 we will end some of these pathetic loss streaks....

yep any wins against the top 6 on my list will be pure gold

[John Crow Batty 8,869]

Last seasons team was far better than in the previous three seasons. What I still cannot understand is why this team seems to think that 4 points taken from fancied teams are far more valuable than taking 4 points from every other team.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Hawthorn & Essendon, + some.

Hawthorn in my time have had the wood, by way of intimidating us.

Add Essendon to that, under Sheeds, (says it all really) & it says 2 things, we are weak under physical pressure, (past Tense), hopefully.

And Carlton's mosqito fleet with skill & pace, could give us headaches.

Todays footy doesn't allow as much physicality, but I think Archer would find a legal way.

So I want us to be a combo of ruggedness,,, 5 or 6 players,,, plus a heap of mentally tough skilled footballers with pace. Not far from the hawthorn ratio's.

The Only club that concerns me in the 2000's is the Hawks, but I think we can out Hawk them. Just like the old 50's & 60's Demons teams with a tad more physicality.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Brad Miller was drafted on the grounds on being the toughest kid in the draft to attempt to fill this void. Not sure if it could be said that it really achieved much, just ending up with him getting reported too often.

From the reports from pre-season training to does sound like there is a bit more aggro within the group coming from the like's of Frawley and Moloney, so maybe that represents an changing attitude.

Hopefully Moloney's initiative with the boxing will also make a difference...

Brad's more milton the monster, than mongrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjPfaPpFSjo

[John Crow Batty 8,869]

Hawthorn & Essendon, + some.

Hawthorn in my time have had the wood, by way of intimidating us.

Add Essendon to that, under Sheeds, (says it all really) & it says 2 things, we are weak under physical pressure, (past Tense), hopefully.

And Carlton's mosqito fleet with skill & pace, could give us headaches.

Todays footy doesn't allow as much physicality, but I think Archer would find a legal way.

So I want us to be a combo of ruggedness,,, 5 or 6 players,,, plus a heap of mentally tough skilled footballers with pace. Not far from the hawthorn ratio's.

The Only club that concerns me in the 2000's is the Hawks, but I think we can out Hawk them. Just like the old 50's & 60's Demons teams with a tad more physicality.

I think Mick Malthouse has said the most insightful comment to how we play when he bemoaned last year how we don't put enough value in playing our best for 4 premiership points every week and not just save our best just for his boys. Now how come they don't intimidate us?

Edited January 6, 2011 by america de cali

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think Mick Malthouse has said the most insightful comment to how we play when he bemoaned last year how we don't put enough value in playing our best for 4 premiership points every week and not just save our best just for his boys. Now how come they don't intimidate us?

G'day adc,,, Imo we haven't gone all out yet since we've been rebuilding. even last year I still believe we were pacing ourselves for a targeted area on the ladder.

So, In saying that, I believe this year we are Now ready to challenge for our highest ladder position possible,,, having largely completed our list rebuild last drafting period.

I am of the opinion, that we have selected specific games that are targeted 'Must wins'.

This year I think we are all out in all games. 100% go for it! Just my opinion, but to me, this is/was the smartest way to reconstruct the clubs list, as other clubs have also done.

So, following this theory, then we haven't tested ourselves against many teams, to get a solid formline from past seasons,,, underperformed...

This could be interesting for our coming season as to how much we will improve,,,,,, against how much the other teams will improve.

[Guest DeesPower]

Thanks for that C & B. It is disgusting but it is skewed slightly though as during that time we just entered the post Dannaher era with a shizen team and we were in list clean out / development / win management mode to ensure the best chance of long term future success.

Even during that time we matched up well against some teams, but with others it was the apparent lack of mental application and physical attack on the ball and man that was sorely missing.

Hopefully in 2011 we will end some of these pathetic loss streaks....

I don't quite understand what we don't do against North. North had some really bad losses last year - far more than we did. We had very few thrashings, and yet they really had the wood on us on both occasions. What is it about the match up, or is it the coaching which views missing. Frankly, I think it is all in the collective mind. The question is, what do we do a out it?

[John Crow Batty 8,869]

I don't quite understand what we don't do against North. North had some really bad losses last year - far more than we did. We had very few thrashings, and yet they really had the wood on us on both occasions. What is it about the match up, or is it the coaching which views missing. Frankly, I think it is all in the collective mind. The question is, what do we do a out it?

They know we are a soft touch because they are on our "lack of respect" list and we don't put them on our radar.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

I don't quite understand what we don't do against North. North had some really bad losses last year - far more than we did. We had very few thrashings, and yet they really had the wood on us on both occasions. What is it about the match up, or is it the coaching which views missing. Frankly, I think it is all in the collective mind. The question is, what do we do a out it?

I heard Drew Petrie on radio talk about these specific games from last year.

North built themselves up big time to beat us both times, because we got all the good press, and they were struggling to pay the bills and felt cheated.

We must Murder North next year.

[John Crow Batty 8,869]

I heard Drew Petrie on radio talk about these specific games from last year.

North built themselves up big time to beat us both times, because we got all the good press, and they were struggling to pay the bills and felt cheated.

We must Murder North next year.

Thats a good point. Just goes to show its a new ball game each week with its own unique challenges. A lack of mental preparation or understanding of what to expect. Too much good press has never done us any good. Or perhaps a case of paying too much attention to the battlefield map and not listening to the jungle drums?

Edited January 6, 2011 by america de cali

[Grandson of a gun 276]

G'day adc,,, Imo we haven't gone all out yet since we've been rebuilding. even last year I still believe we were pacing ourselves for a targeted area on the ladder.

So, In saying that, I believe this year we are Now ready to challenge for our highest ladder position possible,,, having largely completed our list rebuild last drafting period.

I am of the opinion, that we have selected specific games that are targeted 'Must wins'.

This year I think we are all out in all games. 100% go for it! Just my opinion, but to me, this is/was the smartest way to reconstruct the clubs list, as other clubs have also done.

So, following this theory, then we haven't tested ourselves against many teams, to get a solid formline from past seasons,,, underperformed...

This could be interesting for our coming season as to how much we will improve,,,,,, against how much the other teams will improve.

I think you are living up to your name here....

How exactly did we prepare for those non-targeted games then? Coach didn't speak to players? players didn't really train?

Ridiculous. Whilst there are times when players and teams will get themselves up more mentally than others, your suggestion is absurd that we were pacing ourselves and effectively giving games away last year- for what possible benefit (unlike previous seasons)???

I firmly believe that is not the case. It is simply the case that the players did not have the required self belief in certain games that led to such horrid performances.

I don't quite understand what we don't do against North. North had some really bad losses last year - far more than we did. We had very few thrashings, and yet they really had the wood on us on both occasions. What is it about the match up, or is it the coaching which views missing. Frankly, I think it is all in the collective mind. The question is, what do we do a out it?

It is entirely mental. Look at the Sydney game. Look at the North game.

It harks back to ruthlessness. An attitude of saying Fcuk you, you are not better than me, you do not want that ball or that tackle as much as me, i am going to take it off you and make you pay....

That is how Geelong and Hawthorn have treated us, that is how premiership teams win, that is how we must play......

[Keyser Söze 0]

Respect and fearing other sides is hogwash.

We currently have less mature-bodied inside players than the teams that beat up on us and when the game is reduced to a focus on stoppages we can struggle.

North & Hawthorn both have an abundance of solid mature-bodied inside players.

We're still playing catch-up in that area.