Sarcasm can be an art, when done well.

On the topic of opinions, I'm voicing my opinion & simultaneously trying to bring some levity to the situation.

Some would say I'm failing miserably.

I agree that my posts are often negative, but rarely towards the club, rather towards the opinions or suggestions of other posters that I don't agree with.

I think it's fair to say that in the off season there's a higher concentration of ridiculous threads.

Considering how a lot of posters respond to my posts, I don't feel any obligation to sugarcoat anything.

If l feel like being a smart arse, I will.

I suppose this has been discussed often but to me there seems to be a lot of jealous "couldabeens" and "neverwasses" amongst football supporters and a fair proportion on this forum. As far as I am concerned any player who can get a gig at AFL level is an elite athlete. Of course once they get there, success becomes relative to the heightened level of competition. Fair criticism is warranted. But hearing all the denigrating [censored] some posters say about players who may not be at the pinnacle of AFL achievement shows to me how inadequate they must feel about themselves and their achievements in life.

Surely in the days of bigger lists and reserves Newton would have lasted plenty of years. But these days its more of a miracle - except its not a miracle just an indication of our lack of key position stocks over the last few years.

I think that because lists were bigger in the old days and there were less restraints on players moving on and off lists, clubs were more likely to move players on who weren't performing. There used to be a flurry of activity every year before 30 June when clearances closed and players came on and off lists and were cleared at that time. I also remember the days when a kid would come off the street and get a practice match in an earlier game and if he was good enough, could get on the list and sometimes get a game on very few showings.

They were the good old days!

It's all relative though, isn't it?

Few people ever post that they could do much better.

It's more a case of "get <insert hack player's name> out of there and get someone decent in".

These players are being judged relative to their peers, and as such I think the criticism is fair.

Part of the job is being subject to the criticism of supporters.

That's why they get paid the big bucks.

I suppose this has been discussed often but to me there seems to be a lot of jealous "couldabeens" and "neverwasses" amongst football supporters and a fair proportion on this forum. As far as I am concerned any player who can get a gig at AFL level is an elite athlete. Of course once they get there, success becomes relative to the heightened level of competition. Fair criticism is warranted. But hearing all the denigrating [censored] some posters say about players who may not be at the pinnacle of AFL achievement shows to me how inadequate they must feel about themselves and their achievements in life.

adc the problem is when people pump up the tyres of certain players who haven't done anything to deserve it and have had plenty of chances, then others are entitled to come in and try to "correct" the situation

if noone was pumping up newton's tyres i don't think there would be so much criticism. I know i wouldn't, i'd just keep my peace and wait for him to be delisted

now if the fd do decide to keep him on, i'll be disappointed and i'll think they made the wrong decision. But i'll accept it because they run the fd not me.

Very good point

adc the problem is when people pump up the tyres of certain players who haven't done anything to deserve it and have had plenty of chances, then others are entitled to come in and try to "correct" the situation

if noone was pumping up newton's tyres i don't think there would be so much criticism. I know i wouldn't, i'd just keep my peace and wait for him to be delisted

now if the fd do decide to keep him on, i'll be disappointed and i'll think they made the wrong decision. But i'll accept it because they run the fd not me.

Well said daisycutter. I had hoped Newton would make it but so far he has not.

I have seen him quite a few times at Casey and he plays well at that level especially as a ruckman/ forward. Even had a couple of good games taking marks in the back line.

However he seems to very good at VFL level and not good enough at AFL level.

Like you I think it is time to cut him however I will not be bitter and twisted if he stays!

What the expo game probably showed was that Newton does have some skills. His biggest problem is executing them under (mental) pressure. I can't see a role for him in the backline because of that. I'd keep him on the rookie list like Chelly says and play him fwd/ruck in the pre-season comp and the VFL and see what happens. The main thing he needs is confidence.

Please, please, lets not start a "revive juice newton" movement

6 excruciating years was painful enough

are dees supporters born masochists?

And the way he is going will become a Life Member.

I think that because lists were bigger in the old days and there were less restraints on players moving on and off lists, clubs were more likely to move players on who weren't performing. There used to be a flurry of activity every year before 30 June when clearances closed and players came on and off lists and were cleared at that time. I also remember the days when a kid would come off the street and get a practice match in an earlier game and if he was good enough, could get on the list and sometimes get a game on very few showings.

They were the good old days!

Actually WJ there were two lists in the "old days".

First was the list of all players registered with the VFL (Seniors, 2nds, U19s)

Second was something called the "Senior List" (which IIRC Melbourne's was in the mid-high 20's)

It was also possible to get a game in the seniors without making the "senior list"

So, the "old" "senior-list" was actually smaller than todays "list"

Players (mostly) weren't on contracts either, Once registered to the club only the club could release them

And I would say that someone like a Newton in those days would never had got anything like 6 years.

Surprise, surprise! well my comments must have hit a nerve. Good too see some constructive criticism instead of all the vicousness that this thread was degenerating to.

My personal opinion is that Newton will never make it, the reasons has been discussed to death on this website and many others so I won't rehash, that's just boring.

However, why he's still on the list and participating with the trip to China is....well, perplexing. One interpretation is that the FD think that he still has something to offer. Another is that he's just there to fill in the numbers and field a team.

I have no idea why he's still on the list but stranger things have happened, and to answer a previous question of exactly what stranger things has taken place is Paul Hopgood playing over 100 VFL/AFL games. With that in mind anything is possible.

I think Juice is best served trying to establish himself as a forward/ruck prospect. If Leigh Brown can do it he must stand some chance.

I'd give him a chance to develop in the new role of back up ruckman cum forward. There are about five weeks during the pre season NAB Cup/NAB Challenge/practice matches when clubs can experiment. He can be tried in that role or he can be given a run in defence. Stranger things have happened.

It will be interesting to see the final playing list. If he is kept, I'd say the FD see him as a forward/ruck prospect.

I just can't see him being any value down back. Hence my involvement earlier in the thread. Sure, worth experimenting in the pre-season games if need be - that's where all the 'trial & error' stuff occurs.

I could have even picked who would start up....E25, rpfc....I don't know why you support Melbourne, you seem to hate it so much and it brings you no enjoyment whatsoever

They're as passionate as anyone here coming from a neutral observer reading this. I'd say (at a guess) their involvement in much discussion not only highlights their support for Melbournefc - but also brings them enjoyment.

And adc (america de cali) in answer to your question, perhaps someone picked up in the draft may go a fair way to having a back-up if required. Even as a replacement ?

His biggest problem is executing them under (mental) pressure. I can't see a role for him in the backline because of that. I'd keep him on the rookie list like Chelly says and play him fwd/ruck in the pre-season comp and the VFL and see what happens. The main thing he needs is confidence.

Agreed.

I have no idea why he's still on the list but stranger things have happened, and to answer a previous question of exactly what stranger things has taken place is Paul Hopgood playing over 100 VFL/AFL games. With that in mind anything is possible.

Hopgood made the 150 legends or whatever it was. It still annoys me that Wheels missed out and Hopgood got in

This was just a thread posing a question, but of course, as I said the other day, the naysayers who want to wallow immediately start poo pooing....ok it may not work, but last time I looked none of us, as far as I know, worked in the Footy Dept at MFC...he may even be delisted when he gets back, but it is nice to speculate, if you don't want to speculate, it is simple, do what I do, don't join in on threads..I could have even picked who would start up....E25, rpfc....I don't know why you support Melbourne, you seem to hate it so much and it brings you no enjoyment whatsoever

They don't seem to hate Melbourne.

You're on firmer ground trying to argue that they hate Melbourne supporters though

Hate is such a strong word...

I don't suffer fools gladly.

Unless it is intentional.

name one B) B)

Name one????????????

You only need read a few posts down for stranger things to have happened.

See the reference to the 150 legends of our great club.

This was just a thread posing a question, but of course, as I said the other day, the naysayers who want to wallow immediately start poo pooing....ok it may not work, but last time I looked none of us, as far as I know, worked in the Footy Dept at MFC...he may even be delisted when he gets back, but it is nice to speculate, if you don't want to speculate, it is simple, do what I do, don't join in on threads..I could have even picked who would start up....E25, rpfc....I don't know why you support Melbourne, you seem to hate it so much and it brings you no enjoyment whatsoever

I have never become personal about players - it is not about them as people, it is about them as footy players and on that we are all guilty of judgement.

Both negative and positive.

If I was going to accuse anyone of making this personal - I would start with yourself.

I mean, honestly? My comments in this thread get that?

Surprise, surprise! well my comments must have hit a nerve. Good too see some constructive criticism instead of all the vicousness that this thread was degenerating to.

I really would like to know where this 'viciousness' is located.

If you get it AFL footy you are going to have to deal with constant judgement of your abilities.

I suppose this has been discussed often but to me there seems to be a lot of jealous "couldabeens" and "neverwasses" amongst football supporters and a fair proportion on this forum. As far as I am concerned any player who can get a gig at AFL level is an elite athlete. Of course once they get there, success becomes relative to the heightened level of competition. Fair criticism is warranted. But hearing all the denigrating [censored] some posters say about players who may not be at the pinnacle of AFL achievement shows to me how inadequate they must feel about themselves and their achievements in life.

I was getting self-righteous and arrogant.

This post mirrors that sentiment.

Let's move on shall we?

Players are going to get critiqued - they seem to deal with it, can the supporters?

Name one????????????

You only need read a few posts down for stranger things to have happened.

See the reference to the 150 legends of our great club.

I didn't say strange things, I said name one "stranger than"

Its a matter of opinion whether the Hopgood one is stranger, I don't think so

But, anyway, I thought one would realise it was rhetorical

i'll put my balls on the line, if he gets the opportunity to play in the backline he will do well. chip to the midfield

i'll put my balls on the line, if he gets the opportunity to play in the backline he will do well. chip to the midfield

James Frawley would absolutely destroy the mid-field and if we ever get the opportunity to do it, I'd stick him in there, if only just to change a game's flow.

James Frawley would absolutely destroy the mid-field and if we ever get the opportunity to do it, I'd stick him in there, if only just to change a game's flow.

Oh and wouldn't he love it too, i can just see the grin.

Chip in the midfield?

You actually think that's a good idea??

<insert facepalm image>

However, why he's still on the list and participating with the trip to China is....well, perplexing. One interpretation is that the FD think that he still has something to offer. Another is that he's just there to fill in the numbers and field a team.

His contract hasn't expired yet, so it's not that perplexing is it? He's got the same right to be there as every other player. And to be honest, I reckon the squad was selected by just picking the fittest team, rather than the best team.