BAILEY: defending time is over (thread revisited)

[satyricon 267]

FWIW, My thoughts on the gameplan and our play in general are this:

- I don't think we handball at all costs, even though it seems it, I reckon more the point is that the players are so scared to make a mistake themselves that they would rather give it off to someone else, no matter what their position, so it is not them that directly makes the mistake. This is confidence, when we get some confidence, then maybe players will back themselves to hit a target by foot, instead of the easy option of handballing a metre (which we do still stuff up at times though!)

- I saw someone ask if you coach awareness. This definitely is a big problem, we call for the ball when we under the pump way too much, players need to more aware of what is around them. Obviously the person giving the handball needs to be aware of whats around but with the game being so quick, a lot of play is instinct now, hear a call, give it off, you stop to see if they are free and will get caught.

- Did anyone think when watching saturdays game that it felt like watching u/11's play? Our whole team seemed to run at the ball, whilst the hawks just sat back and surrounded us so that when we did get the ball out, it came straight to them. This again comes back to confidence, the hawks backed their players to go in and get the ball and get it out to them, we just seemed to think that everyone needed to get the ball. We get confidence and we won't have 15 players trying to get the ball, they will back the few in there to get it and wait for them to get it to them. Is why Geelong do so well, they back ablett, bartell etc to get the ball and give it to them, hence their play seems really open.

- Confidence and belief, we have none. The good teams back themselves and also their own players to beat their opposition most times so they will go to a 1 on 1 if no better option. We don't even seem to want the 1 on 1 as I don't think the players believe that the player they are kicking to will win the ball, instead they will look back for a release and like I said in the first point, give it off so they arent the one making the mistake.

- We have no structure at all up forward. This is what causes a lot of the indecision and mucking around in the back half. Why would the backs want to bust a nut getting the ball out, knowing it will be back in 15 seconds time? All our plans seem to be contingent on Watts being John Coleman, whilst I hope he is, our track record of picking a good tall forward hasnt been the greatest of late. Jurrah is a part answer, but he needs a key forward to take the focus off him.

- Finally, I just feel we are too defensive, but this probably comes from the fear of getting smacked each week. Personally though I would prefer what Essendon adopted a year or two ago and just attacked at all costs, as silly as it seems, I could handle a 10 goal loss if we kicked 15 goals in the process. At least then an attacking gameplan would be in place for when we were up and running.

It is hard to judge Bailey's real gameplan (assuming he has one!) as I dont think we have the players to implement what he wants, due mainly to the older/middle tier players just not being up to it. The kids look good, but what do they have to learn off?

Just some of my thoughts, think of them what you will...

A well thought out post, without emotion coming into it, and points made and backed up with reason

[Still Waiting 94]

Even one G. Lyon stated last night that the decision to extend Bailey's reign "would not be one he would have made". Lyon was one of those that approved Bailey's initial appointment. Our management have made a huge call that will haunt them almost straight away.

Bailey's extension was an abysmal stroke of lunacy and those who approved it should be made to be accountable.

It's obvious a lot of well credentialed AFL people also think this was a bad, bad decision. Read a paper, watch TV, listen to a radio, it's all over the AFL scene..

Bailey unfortunately, has no idea how to instill footy aggression into our young squad. He is not going to be coach of our next successful side. The players do not respect his authority going on the way they perform. He is too friendly, to nice-a person.

I don't have any more patience with the lack of improvement with my beloved Demons.

I want/demand improvement now. It is way, way overdue. No more excuses and unfulfilled promises. Not asking for miracles either!

Time has arrived to shame the non performers, which includes off field staff as well.Perform or leave, in my opinion.

When will so called senior players be told that to play in the seniors you HAVE to perform?

Will our coaching staff publicly show players that this performance was pathetic, probably not!

Will some soft supporters disagree with me and have a go......definitely.

I really hope I am wrong on every count!!!!!

[Roost It 1,434]

Players are working hard to execute a handball driven start to each passage of play. Our team is incredibly unsettled thanks to the continued introduction of new players and of course injuries. The passion amongst our new players is clearly evident. Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Bennell, Strauss, Frawley, Mckenzie, Spencer all have a red hot go a . Green and Jones give there all and I dare say Aaron is plenty passionate enough about this great club. Soon Watts, Morton, Garland, Wonaeamirri, Jurrah, Blease, Gysberts, Jetta and Maric will also be playing and a couple more beltings will follow. But surely you can all see the talent that is coming through. Most of these guys haven't even played half a season, let alone a couple of seasons together. Bailey is teaching them and it's going to take more than a season of playing together to come together.

Do you seriously think we should just chuck the development in and go back to man on man football in an attempt to limit our losses. We are DEVELOPING a great team here, with some really special talent. I don't give a rat's what Garry Lyon or Grant Thomas or Dermot Brereton have to say and I certainly don't care what a Herald Sun journalist says. What I care about is watching our young players develop. The Bruce's, Miller's, Dunn's etc can F off know for all I care. It's the youth I'm interested in and that's exactly what Bailey is interested in too.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Roost It

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Just some of my thoughts, think of them what you will...

Good post Age. I can't see things becoming any clearer re gameplan issues and certainly no easier with Collingwood ahead this Saturday but I'm confident that when confronted with less seasoned opponents in the near future, we'll start to see signs (as we did last year) of what Bailey wants us to stand for as a footy team.

[demons27 1]

Nicely put

I think the real issue is Bailey has not shown enough by way of being an effective coach to warrant the extension. The board ratified Bailey's original appointment, so they have a vested interest in protecting him. It is not so much about believing things will improve, but trying to stave off a massive supporter revolt by locking in Bailey before things get worse.

This is not a positive situation for the coach, the club, the players or the long suffering supporters.

If it all turns to #!&^ , appoint Connolly as a stand-in for the rest of the year and make a play for Malthouse or even Lyon. We will again be losing money, but perhaps next time we be less focussed on the "process" of selecting the right coach and more on get the best man available.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

It's to give the ball off as soon as you get it. Why? Because the ball moves faster than a person can.

James Hird tonight stood up to Sheahan and Healy when Healy said that Melbourne handballed too much and should kick more. Hird said that if you kick the ball forward then Hawthorn were set up to turn the ball over and send it straight back with interest. Hird was saying that handballing and carrying the ball forward was the right thing to do, but we needed to do it better. Currently we aren't good enough to do it well, and not confident enough to persist with the risks.

That's because Melbourne had no one in the clear forward of the ball to kick it to. It's been the problem since round 1, 2007.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Handball. There's too much of it, relative to total possessions. It's starting to remind me of the very black period of

You handball when you need to handball, you kick when you need to kick. Which ever is the best option is the one you choose. If you can handpass two metres or kick to a teammate fifty metres away on a lead you go with the 50 metre option.

The issue for Melbourne is that too often because of poor structure from the first bounce there isn't that option up forward. Players aren't going to kick it if there isn't anyone clear to kick it to.

The result is more turnovers, because players are forced to handpass as it is their only option, often to a teammate who is under just as much pressure and in a worse position.

EDIT: Typo.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Clint Bizkit

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Seems Facebook has a sack Bailey page up and running already.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=11336956111&v=info

[Razor 289]

I have read the Demonland site for a couple of years and think it is great, although I have never been prompted to make a post. However I went along to the game on Saturday and was not only disappointed but alarmed at the predicament the team is in. I have been a supporter of Bailey mainly because of the endorsement of respected MFC people including Jim Stynes and Cameron Schwab neither of whom were involved in his appointment.

Saturdays game prompted 3 questions about the progress the team is making under Bailey:

- why have players such as Bartam, Dunn and Bate not met the expectations from when they were exciting youngsters in 2006?

- why after a pre season beginning in October has the team adopted a game plan that seems so flawed?

- why does the game day seem to only have a plan A?

I am genuinely sad that Scully, Trengrove and Strauss will look back on Saturday as their initiation to AFL. I hope the performance on the field erases the above doubts however the low key, 'more time required' style of Bailey has me concerned we may all be entering a state of denial.

[Roost It 1,434]

I have read the Demonland site for a couple of years and think it is great, although I have never been prompted to make a post. However I went along to the game on Saturday and was not only disappointed but alarmed at the predicament the team is in. I have been a supporter of Bailey mainly because of the endorsement of respected MFC people including Jim Stynes and Cameron Schwab neither of whom were involved in his appointment.

Saturdays game prompted 3 questions about the progress the team is making under Bailey:

- why have players such as Bartam, Dunn and Bate not met the expectations from when they were exciting youngsters in 2006?

- why after a pre season beginning in October has the team adopted a game plan that seems so flawed?

- why does the game day seem to only have a plan A?

I am genuinely sad that Scully, Trengrove and Strauss will look back on Saturday as their initiation to AFL. I hope the performance on the field erases the above doubts however the low key, 'more time required' style of Bailey has me concerned we may all be entering a state of denial.

The aftermath of Saturday's game prompted 3 questions of my own

-How is that people who witness 1 game of a new season can write off a coach

-How is that people expect a bunch of talented youngsters with little to no on field leadership to work cohesively

-Why do people start countless new threads to basically discuss exactly the same thing.

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

The aftermath of Saturday's game prompted 3 questions of my own

-How is that people who witness 1 game of a new season can write off a coach

-How is that people expect a bunch of talented youngsters with little to no on field leadership to work cohesively

-Why do people start countless new threads to basically discuss exactly the same thing.

1) it's on 3 full pre-seasons, 2 seasons 7 wins from 45 AFL starts

2) NAB cup/challenge floggings this year inc it's 4 floggings from 5 starts in 2010 and a loss to an under-performing Crows side.

3) with a 6 month pre-season under our belts this year the style of play had to have changed from the last two horrible years of overuse. It clearly hasn't

[Grand New Flag 3,227]

Roost It; you are absolutely spot on with your analysis. Bailey has had a complete clean out, a complete rebuild, this will take time. 2 years and 1 round is nowhere near enough time to expect any sort of improvement especially considering that in 2008 we had a mature list and now we almost only have inexperienced kids.

In 1981 when Barrassi took over he started a similar rebuild. It was long, slow and painful and in 1986 after 5 seasons of rebuild the Barrassi experiment was considered a failure. Melbourne was awful in 1981 winning just one game by 1 point against the second worse team (Bulldogs) with a Robert Flower goal after the siren from 50 meters out on the boundary. Before the 1982 season Melbourne went on a spending spree buying a number of A grade players and became competitive winning between 6 and 9 games for the following 5 seasons. However they also stepped up their youth policy even going as far as Ireland to collect the best 16, 17 & 18 year olds they could get their hands on. It was these kids recruited by Barrassi that went on and made 5 consecutive finals series between 1987 and 1991 including one GF and 3 Preliminary Finals. Melbourne had to wait for their Barrassi kids to reach 21 - 26yo before any meaningful results were seen, however there were signs as early as 1984. Barrassi left a failure but time showed he was in fact the architect of a new period of success that was desperately unlucky not to produce a premiership.

Getting stuck into Bailey at this point is simply wrong and counterproductive. We are all disappointed with last weeks result, we all want to see improvement, but this is what we signed up for when we embarked on a full rebuild and every supporter who has been following what has been going on must know this and lower their expectations accordingly. Its boy’s v men at the moment. Blow outs and inconsistency will occur and are part of the growing process.

We are doing the right thing and the MFC will be rewarded for this in time. But it will take time and we must suck up these hard times and believe in our future, back our coach and understand that this is a 5 year plan. The only way this rebuild is likely to fail is if we get off the course we have already set.

Now stop winging and toughen up! We all need to be in this for the long haul.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I think the supporters of this club need to have a good hard look at ourselves. Where's the passion people? At our lowest ebb this season we couldn't generate a "Sack the Coach" thread that lasted more than 61 posts!

You've got to hand it to the mob at Bomberblitz. They know how to deal with a loss. They've got over 750 people on their forum at 11pm. Their 'Matthew Knights' thread entitled, "Your Time For The Blowtorch" is onto the 144th page!

[45HG 1,539]

Any correctly spelt words yet?

[bing181 9,005]

I think the supporters of this club need to have a good hard look at ourselves. Where's the passion people? At our lowest ebb this season we couldn't generate a "Sack the Coach" thread that lasted more than 61 posts!

You've got to hand it to the mob at Bomberblitz. They know how to deal with a loss. They've got over 750 people on their forum at 11pm. Their 'Matthew Knights' thread entitled, "Your Time For The Blowtorch" is onto the 144th page!

That's how you judge supporters, how quickly they go into meltdown?

Not to mention, Essendon played finals last year, with basically the same team. Pretty obvious questions would be asked given that they appear to be going backwards.

We, on the other hand, are obviously going forward.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

i dont see how you dont agree with the switch of play, in modern football when teams zone the only way to get through these zones is the switching and handball play.

most of our players disposal is quite good, and the matches we have won is due to our disposal efficiency, hard running, switching and handballing. allowing teams not to sit in a zone ahead of us, in the matches we lost like st kilda last week, they zone well enoguh that players end up having to kick to a one on one, and usually the boundary line.

his game plan is modelled off geelong, they are a grandfinal team, and were able to work the game plan, i do not agree that we do not have players able to use the ball well, and against essendon, apart from patches, melbourne used the ball really well.

it isnt dean baileys game plan but rather his attitude that irks me sometimes, he doesnt look like he has that fire, which is good with a learning team, but will he develop the fire in his belly when we start to win more matches and press for top four contention?

also his theory of winning quarters annoys me, again i understand we are a young team, so taking more quarter wins out of a season is a viable measure for improvement, but it just sounds like he is conceding that we are going to lose.

on the whole dean bailey is a good coach imo.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I think it's important that the supporters of our club can decide whether there are any agendas in play here.

[biggestred 4,823]

fail.

[hoopla 418]

Stupid thread... put it away again please