World Cup loses its cheer

[Adelaide Demon 0]

I take exception to this reply, which I think lowers the tone of this forum . I think I have put forward some reasonable points, and do not deserve the reply "shut up idiot". Where are you, moderators?

I presume you're a soccer lover who can't understand that there are Australians who value our local game. But I won't tell you to "shut up, moron".

I'm a sport lover. I fully understand that there are Australians who value 'our local game'. I am one of them.

You talk of lowering the tone of the forum. I'd have thought that this was already achieved by calling soccer a 'cancer'; stating that a sport is 'far superior' to another; hoping that your national team (regardless of the sport) performs poorly; and trying to denigrate a sport by likening it to a game for toddlers.

[beelzebub 23,313]

E-gate...common ground

This refers to a boutique stadium. Again and again mentions are made of some sort of development in this area. Smoke smoke and more smoke...I wonder if there will ever be any fire ?

This I assume is the same place that was mentioned not even months back and linked to Melbourne as a possible new Winter home and training base. It would need federal and state money to go ahead. I would think the AFl wouldnt spend a zac on it but consider it an "appeasement".

Curious though.. as the Docklands deal always centered on no new stadia..and yet its Docklands who may be responsible for it in a strange merry go round way.

If whomever was leading the State was absolutely keen on ensuring any final of a cup were held in Melbourne ( G ) then this is about the only way around it. Clever posturing by the AFL indeed.

its all a game of chess really

[Guest oldman emubitter]

Shut up idiot.

sieg heil facist. this is an open forum where EVERYONE is allowed a point of view

[H_T 3,043]

I hope we don't get a World Cup in Australia. If we must, send it to Sydney. They're less concerned about their rugby than we are about our game.

You can't just send it to Sydney. FIFA stipulates they require 12 venues for the host nation to hold the World Cup. The bid will fail if FFA/FIFA can't have Melbourne.

[52k2 0]

Once again I will ask the same question I asked the previous page........ WHAT ARE FIFA SO AFRAID OF LOCAL COMPETITION FOR?

To say they arnt, why do they DEMAND that, not ask nicely or even plead or beg NO!!!!!!!!! they DEMAND.

And as a reason for giving soccer everything they demand is because more people do soccer than footy, that is plain dumb, follow that logic through.

The most popular surname in the world is NG, is that your surname, if not why not. More people have that name than any other. You can do any thing with figures cant you, now back to my footy club.

I dont want the mighty DEES to struggle and fight to get out of debt and then have some no name nuf head from god knows where make decisions to put us straight back in the red.

If they want to have the soccer world cup here good luck to them, but DONT destroy my club in the process.

This is for the soccer wantabees, am I over reacting? I dont know, no one in soccer is coming clean on what they DEMAND.

They operate in a news black hole, they want your commitment first then they tell you what you just committed to.

And finally again why are they so afraid of competition?

[biggestred 5,002]

i think you will find that fifa dont want local competitions of any sport stopped, but the local soccer competition during the world cup...

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

[quote name='High Tower'

"You can't just send it to Sydney. FIFA stipulates they require 12 venues for the host nation to hold the World Cup. The bid will fail if FFA/FIFA can't have Melbourne."

Good!

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

[quote name='Adelaide Demon'

" stating that a sport is 'far superior' to another; hoping that your national team (regardless of the sport) performs poorly; and trying to denigrate a sport by likening it to a game for toddlers."

Diddums.

I bet you're one of those guys who gave up playing Australian Football to play indoor soccer, because there's no danger of any nasty boy bumping you with his hard body.

All the best in your year 10 exam results.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

" stating that a sport is 'far superior' to another; hoping that your national team (regardless of the sport) performs poorly; and trying to denigrate a sport by likening it to a game for toddlers."

Diddums.

I bet you're one of those guys who gave up playing Australian Football to play indoor soccer, because there's no danger of any nasty boy bumping you with his hard body.

All the best in your year 10 exam results.

Really? That's what you have to say in response? Dear me.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

[quote name='Adelaide Demon' .

"Really? That's what you have to say in response? Dear me."

It's pretty hard to have a more intelligent response than "shut up idiot".

You should apologise for that. It's not acceptable on this forum.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

[quote name='Adelaide Demon' .

"Really? That's what you have to say in response? Dear me."

It's pretty hard to have a more intelligent response than "shut up idiot".

You should apologise for that. It's not acceptable on this forum.

Generally it's not, you're right. But when you have people going on about sport being cancers and generally talking a load a ill-informed nonsense, I feel that it is necessary.

[45HG 1,539]

Only days after Demetriou's fear mongering rant, it appears there are many options left open to the AFL.

It also seems evident that the code DOES NOT have to stop for the World Cup.

If it were me, I'd start the season a month early, have a month off for the cup and go without a couple of the main stadiums for a month (it's not like we haven't done it before). Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, nor does it seem that things would be (relatively) affected.

[Hobbits's 17]

Only days after Demetriou's fear mongering rant, it appears there are many options left open to the AFL.

It also seems evident that the code DOES NOT have to stop for the World Cup.

If it were me, I'd start the season a month early, have a month off for the cup and go without a couple of the main stadiums for a month (it's not like we haven't done it before). Doesn't seem too unreasonable to me, nor does it seem that things would be (relatively) affected.

wonder how tha AFL will contemplate the "FFA outlining the AFL's options",...that would be like Coca-Cola taking advice from Cadbury-schweppes.

[H_T 3,043]

Ben Buckley was formerly the AFL No.2 man behind Demetriou. So I'm sure the AFL would listen.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Just looking at it from purely a ...how it could be done perspective ( combined with likelyhood) then its all very well for FFA to "outline' options.. buts quite frankly If I was teh AFL id be a little adverse to someone telling me how to suck eggs.

I cant see Visy as an option at all. The locals will band together to quash any upgrading after all teh efforts getting it downgraded. FFa position must be to minimise the disruption to other codes. 4 weeks absence seems a bit long...maybe they dont do so well overseas looking after grounds..lol. still. be that as it may. If Docklands is used there is the same conundrum..... actual games plus the 4 weks prior. Granted the ground could all but beused days after its last WC duty. I am told there are serious issues with cordoningoff Docklands ina WC style security arrangemetn because of its proximity to Spencer St (STATION ) you cant shut it down just for soccer.

There is in all likely hood a reality that the 2018 games will go back to Europe. Probably England. 2022 is a better chance if you digest the media. In that likelyhood then the often mentioned E-gate. "Boutique" stadium sounds teh best option. That this is the same venue as sugested as Melbournes new base need not colour our view (too much). It would give time for proper ( not rushed) scoping and planning...as well as building and bedding in as a venue ..i.e.getting the bugs out.

If this IS to happen ...it has to be in such a way that all benefit... not just some minority group called soccer fans..and they are here ( before any one starts jumping up and down ). Im still not sold on all the tourism benefits rubbish as travelling to Australia is a vastly diferent thing than folks lobbing in to a European destination from some other part of it. Personally I still consider it more of a me-too me-too look at us bragging rights occasion for trumped up soccer types and having it sit well (soto speak ) with the massive-ego types of politics ( we all know who they are).

But if it must happen..do it properly.and lets (us ) get something out of it

[volders 22]

Once again I will ask the same question I asked the previous page........ WHAT ARE FIFA SO AFRAID OF LOCAL COMPETITION FOR?

To say they arnt, why do they DEMAND that, not ask nicely or even plead or beg NO!!!!!!!!! they DEMAND.

And as a reason for giving soccer everything they demand is because more people do soccer than footy, that is plain dumb, follow that logic through.

Well, you see the problem here is that FIFA hold all the power, they really have no preference where the world cup is other than to promote the game more and a country with 22mil people is probably not high on their list of countries to promote. I would say that the majority of Australians would want the world cup in our country, there's only a handful of diehard afl/etc. supporters that are opposed to it. That's why FIFA can make demands, because we as a country are the ones who want it, FIFA has plenty of countries extremely willing and able to host one of the biggest sporting events in the world. I'm sure these other countries would be happy for Aus with such a great history of hosting big sporting events to drop out because locals are afraid that there game will suffer due to ~8 weeks not playing on MCG/etc.

[52k2 0]

FIFA only has the power if we stand by and let them dictate their terms to us. I am soooo grateful Mr Buckley would allow the MFC to play our games in Canberra that year, if in fact we get the cup. Can you imagine the Queens birthday game against collingwood, boy would we rake in the money from the huge attendance.

That is my chief problem with this whole idea, will we be compensated for the loss of money? By whom? How much? Or are the footy supporters going to subside soccer through loss of money. If soccer is so terrific, great, fantastic the world game why does the A league average less than 6000 people a game? Or do the enlightened ones [read soccer supporters] only worry going to international events as the local scene is so crap.

Before we go madly tripping down the world cup road, surely those are questions that need, No must be answered.

As supporters who go week in week out we need these answers before we sign anything. If you think I am anti soccer I dont really care, to me the MFC comes first,second or third and soccer comes a very distant 427th. No matter how you manage that season we will lose money based purely on attendance only.

One last thing why are we the footy supporters the ignorant ones? After all we arnt the ones coming in to somebodies patch telling them, No demanding that they change everything, venues,dates,attendances and maybe even things we dont know of yet!

If you believe this world cup wont have any impact, let alone the potential to have a major impact on our finances you are according to the great one "DREAMING'.

We deserve to be told all up front, unless soccer just dosnt care and they continue to treat us as flies on the wall to just squash.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

One last thing why are we the footy supporters the ignorant ones? After all we arnt the ones coming in to somebodies patch telling them, No demanding that they change everything, venues,dates,attendances and maybe even things we dont know of yet!

You make it sound like FIFA has barged in to Australia and demanded that we change everything to suit them. Australia had placed bids for the World Cup. FIFA didn't ask us to attempt to host it. We asked them if we could.

[Keyser Söze 0]

You make it sound like FIFA has barged in to Australia and demanded that we change everything to suit them. Australia had placed bids for the World Cup. FIFA didn't ask us to attempt to host it. We asked them if we could.

Something has really hit a nerve with you, hasn't it?

FFS relax.

I hope Australia never hosts a World Cup purely cos it might weaken the sport of AFL.

I'm happy to travel to other host countries to attend matches and stay up late to watch it on TV.

[52k2 0]

You are right adelaide Demon we invited fifa here with a bid for the world cup. Its like inviting someone to your home for a dinner party, they accept and then lay out their conditions no make that demands for attendance. The menu has to be changed, also theres a pub down the road that they think would be a better venue also 6 oclock would be better than 7.

I noticed you stayed well away from who pays the piper, a bit of a tufy that one. WELL WHO PAYS? It will be millions, many many millions, take our losses and multiply that by 18[no of afl teams] and you start to get an idea of the potential pay out by someone. Who pays, ffa they dont have that sort of money. Well they will make a good starting point to sue for loss of earnings.

Thats only the afl how many teams in how many codes will be affected. Its no good saying its many years till the possible event happens they will sort something out in the mean time. Not good enough, I dont like signing blank cheques that only might have the details filled in before their drawn.

My club is that important to me to want to see the details up front not when some sports politician in Geneva decides us footy pleds deserve an answer, whatever it is. In other words in plain english the latte set in Geneva dont care about footy just the world game so really we should be getting down on our knees thanking them for even looking in our direction.

FINALLY WHO PAYS please explain.

[pantaloons 2,019]

More history - there was a cancelled NHL season only a few years ago.

The lockout slaughtered the NHL. The great game and league lost its spot on ESPN due to the lockout and hasn't regained it. Immediately after the lockout, the NHL changed some of the rules and nuances of the game, most of which irked traditionalists and pleased the fairweather fans. In the US though, the game has lost significant momentum and national interest that will be difficult to regain.

I agree with Beelzebub on this topic.

In fact I'd extend his argument to say that Soccer in general is a threat to our far superior, and older , and more traditional game of Australian Football.

"The world game" is like a cancer spreading through world sport and stifling local codes.

One reason it catches on so quickly is that it's so simple! 2year olds can have fun kicking a big soft round ball along the ground long before they can catch a moving ball, let alone hold it, drop it, and kick it in the air. Mothers like it since there's no body contact, and little Johnnie won't get hurt.Games don't take much time , and can be played on a small ground, or even inside. Villagers in Africa can play in a rough old clearing in the jungle.

But these factors don't make it the best game! The fact that only one player can touch the ball limits its potential as a spectacle. And only foot skills, not ball handling , are on display. How ridiculous to have to use your HEAD to propel the ball in the air! The low scoring makes Referees' decisions on penalties so crucial. The lack of scores makes the crowds restless and angry.Violence is much worse in soccer crowds than other sports. In South America, the crowds are separated from the players by barbed wire, moats, armed police, and water cannon are aimed at the crowd ready to fire!

That sums up my thoughts on soccer's popularity perfectly. I actually really enjoy watching the Socceroos, but there are other sports created (not coincidentally by wealthy nations with the nous and resources to support these new games) that have soccer covered in almost every facet in my opinion. I'd happily see the World Cup here, but there seems to be an air of colonialism about FIFA. Soccer fans that I've known have always generally been intolerant of other sports and keen to see soccer spread all over the world and squash other sports. That's arrogance. I don't see unreasonable points being put forward by footy fans on here. No one is saying that the World Cup shouldn't be played here - just that footy should be able to continue during this time. If our great league can continue during the World Wars, then I'd suggest it can do so through a four week tournament of another sport.

[Keyser Söze 0]

You are right adelaide Demon we invited fifa here with a bid for the world cup. Its like inviting someone to your home for a dinner party, they accept and then lay out their conditions no make that demands for attendance. The menu has to be changed, also theres a pub down the road that they think would be a better venue also 6 oclock would be better than 7.

I noticed you stayed well away from who pays the piper, a bit of a tufy that one. WELL WHO PAYS? It will be millions, many many millions, take our losses and multiply that by 18[no of afl teams] and you start to get an idea of the potential pay out by someone. Who pays, ffa they dont have that sort of money. Well they will make a good starting point to sue for loss of earnings.

Thats only the afl how many teams in how many codes will be affected. Its no good saying its many years till the possible event happens they will sort something out in the mean time. Not good enough, I dont like signing blank cheques that only might have the details filled in before their drawn.

My club is that important to me to want to see the details up front not when some sports politician in Geneva decides us footy pleds deserve an answer, whatever it is. In other words in plain english the latte set in Geneva dont care about footy just the world game so really we should be getting down on our knees thanking them for even looking in our direction.

FINALLY WHO PAYS please explain.

Are you serious? We do, the taxpayers.

Same as the Olympic or Commonwealth Games

That's not so hard to figure out, is it?

Edit: ...and the AFL can't sue for lost earnings because someone comes along with a more popular product. That's insanity.

Edited December 13, 2009 by Keyser Söze

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,777]

As a committed devotee of Australian Football,I really hope we don't host the World Soccer Cup,especially in Melb(where we're v. unlikely to be primary hosts), but also in Sydney.

The reason?? It will DEFINITELY be detrimental to our game in the longterm. Just imagine our media in the lead-up to, and after, the games....nothing but soccer, soccer, soccer. Even now young Aussie kids' favourite hero tends to be Ronaldino or Maradonna (or other soccer stars) rather than Ablett or J Brown. Kids will take up soccer instead of our own game. The weaker Clubs will be the first to notice the extra sponsorship competition from soccer(I hope that won't include the Demons by then!). Not just the game , but the Clubs will be threatened. Just think if Australia did well....reached the final or nearly so, the hysteria would be immense.

Australian football would lose potential fans to soccer.

You may say that if our game isn't strong enough to withstand the competition, so be it. I say let's do everything in our power to protect the game we Australians(probably excluding Sydney and Brisbanites) have been brought up on. I wonder how long it will be before Sydney Rugby League(with its, in my opinion, inferior product) realises the huge threat it faces. I hope the ARL resists our bid, which will make FIFA even more aware of disquiet within Australia about hosting the Cup.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Edit: ...and the AFL can't sue for lost earnings because someone comes along with a more popular product. That's insanity.

Ever heard of restraint of trade ?. An argument could be had that it ( the AFL..NRL ) is unable to fulfil not only its committements and obligations but its right to hold sporting events as previously agreed. If there was no claim to be had anywhere , then no compensation could be sought. That there is ..as a given all but cements the position ( by the AFL ) of impedence.

Its nothing to do with popularity ..as in this country it doesnt occupy that position ( soccer)

[Keyser Söze 0]

Ever heard of restraint of trade ?. An argument could be had that it ( the AFL..NRL ) is unable to fulfil not only its committements and obligations but its right to hold sporting events as previously agreed. If there was no claim to be had anywhere , then no compensation could be sought. That there is ..as a given all but cements the position ( by the AFL ) of impedence.

Its nothing to do with popularity ..as in this country it doesnt occupy that position ( soccer)

Only in the event there was restraint of trade - but this would only be in the event that FIFA somehow stops AFL matches from being played against the AFL's will.

If World Cup matches are held and the AFL loses revenue because ppl attend those matches instead, then the AFL can't sue for that.

Popularity-wise? Maybe not A-League matches, but a World Cup match would be a significant draw as opposed to and AFL game at Visy Park.

Either way, I think that FIFA is a lot like Microsoft and I don't want a World Cup in Australia... unless its held in summer.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Keyser Söze