Luke Ball in the National Draft

[Jaded No More 68,903]

Maybe you are right, but i still see him as a solid teacher for Scully & Trengove. That's why i think 18 would be ok.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ball has some serious value, particularly off the field, but at his age and with his physical concerns, I'd rather take the chance of unearthing a 10 year player (especially a much needed KP or ruckman).

Put it this way, during trade week, Ball was worth a pick around the high 20's mark. What has chanced since then?

Besides, he clearly doesn't want to play for us, or he would have nominated for the PSD to ensure the best result for us and himself. If he isn't keen to play for us, we should steer clear. Don't need to pay him good money for 2 years only to watch him [censored] off again.

[beelzebub 23,348]

all in all ..listening to Harrington , Predergast and co you just get the heartening feeling we are doing things different now !! Seems much more directed and hard-nosed. we might just have got our act together....bodes well

I think whatever the decisions made...they'll be well weighted and deliberated.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Maybe you are right, but i still see him as a solid teacher for Scully & Trengove. That's why i think 18 would be ok.

What has he got to offer that Scotty West, Junior McDonald and Cam Bruce don't? Aside from giving insight on being a high draft pick that never lived up to the hype.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

What has he got to offer that Scotty West, Junior McDonald and Cam Bruce don't? Aside from giving insight on being a high draft pick that never lived up to the hype.

Luke has Played some great Games. What he gives is Mentoring right in the Middle During Games.

Scotty West is Brilliant, But he is no longer out there.

Junior & Brucey were never elite Midfielders. They Play different Positions...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

all in all ..listening to Harrington , Predergast and co you just get the heartening feeling we are doing things different now !! Seems much more directed and hard-nosed. we might just have got our act together....bodes well

I think whatever the decisions made...they'll be well weighted and deliberated.

not to single you out but I am stunned that posters have this attitude

the only thing I have gathered from all this is that we are about as attractive as a pile of shyzen to opposition players, and that even when holding all the cards our staff cannot get any quality into the club

of course it is natural for some of you, upon the realisation we have missed out again, to instantly say how undesirable a prospect he is, but it is undeniable this guy would have been a huge asset in our premiership rebuild for a myriad of reasons

allow me to quote the femmes:

"You know that I want your lovin'

But my logic tells me that it ain't never gonna happen

And then my defenses say I didn't want it anyway

But you know sometimes I'm a liar"

having said that, it's blatently obvious that he seriously does not want to play for us, and the thought of us now forcing him to by giving up a promising kid makes me physically ill

I don't know who's to blame but I'm livid

[The Chazz 4,077]

Don't get me wrong, I think Ball has some serious value, particularly off the field, but at his age and with his physical concerns, I'd rather take the chance of unearthing a 10 year player (especially a much needed KP or ruckman).

Put it this way, during trade week, Ball was worth a pick around the high 20's mark. What has chanced since then?

Besides, he clearly doesn't want to play for us, or he would have nominated for the PSD to ensure the best result for us and himself. If he isn't keen to play for us, we should steer clear. Don't need to pay him good money for 2 years only to watch him [censored] off again.

Has anyone been able to get an official list of the players that have nominated for the National Draft? I've been trying to find out if Luke has OFFICIALLY nominated for the National Draft. I know the media are saying, but I want the official list from the AFL before I worry if he wants to play for us or not.

That said, I would love to see him come to Melbourne, even if it were via the ND. I don't believe that he has a maximum of 5 years left, I would say he has 5 years of his best footy left, then could play a great back pocket role for another 2 or 3 after that, and let's face it, his best footy would go close to winning our B&F - just need to see his Grand Final effort to see that this is a possibility.

So, would we risk an early pick for him over a junior? Well, I think a lot depends on the progress of Mitch Thorp. If it was assured that we will pick Thorp up in the PSD, I would snap Ball up at pick 11. Now, before we all jump up and down, this is just an opinion of mine. I feel that the 5 years of his best footy will benefit the Club and Team. Reality is we need a balance of youth and experience, the latter is something we don't have a great deal of. While I can understand this youth policy and building for the next 10+ years, we still need to win games NOW. Ball will assist in this and maybe in 4-5 years (while he is still performing at 100%), we just might get a crack at a Grand Final. If we take the punt on a young midfield-type, reality is unless they are like Daniel Rich, Joel Selwood, and hopefully our boys Tom & Jack, they will still take maybe 2-3 years to develop. In that time, they wont be a vital player for us, therefore, wont play a huge part in us building that winning culture.

It is a very big decision for the club. Both sides of this argument have a lot of merit, but instead of being a fence sitter, I went the way of picking him up.

The question that people will be asking me (hopefully) is about my reasoning for pick 11 as opposed to 18. I would like to see Vardy come to us at 18 (just don't think I'd use pick 11 on him). As BP said in his interview today (as well as other things), our ruck stocks could do with topping up. Hopefully if we pick Ball at 11, it will make him realise we are fair dinkum about him playing for us and he should return the favor. The only club he has publicly nominated as preferred is Collingwood, but regardless of what Club he went to, he will play at 100%. If he looked Dean Bailey in the eye and said "I DON"T WANT TO PLAY FOR MELBOURNE", then I'd have a different opinion of him - I just don't think he is that type.

Here is my dream result;

Pick 1 - Scully/Trengove

Pick 2 - Scully/Trengove

Pick 11 - Luke Ball

Pick 18 - Vardy

Pick 34 - Joel McDonald

Pick 50 - Cousin Liam

PSD 1 - Mitch Thorp

One last thing I want to add, I am amazed at people saying how young draft kids are happy to come to Melbourne. Of course they are bloody happy to come to Melbourne, it's the AFL, they are 17 years old, they would be happy to be picked up by any club. They are also educated to say that they would be happy to play for us - haven't you heard the standard answer of "I'll just take it as it comes and be happy to be picked up"? Can't imagine Scully, Trengove or any other kid for that matter come out and say "I would hate to be picked up by the MFC, they have won back-to-back wooden spoons, and I'm far too good to play for them". Don't think they will last in the system that long, and if they did, I would love to see Beamer and Co line up on them in their first season.

[e25 5]

I don't know who's to blame but I'm livid

Really?

The pragmatist in me knows that we are the team on the bottom of the ladder and he is coming from a Grand Finalist team - the odds of us ever getting him were pretty ordinary.

I think we'd have been lying to ourselves trying to reason that we were the best option for him because we have a promising list and hope to contend within 4 or 5 years.

Why should that matter to him?

I'm just not sure what there is to be livid about.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

One last thing I want to add, I am amazed at people saying how young draft kids are happy to come to Melbourne. Of course they are bloody happy to come to Melbourne, it's the AFL, they are 17 years old, they would be happy to be picked up by any club. They are also educated to say that they would be happy to play for us - haven't you heard the standard answer of "I'll just take it as it comes and be happy to be picked up"? Can't imagine Scully, Trengove or any other kid for that matter come out and say "I would hate to be picked up by the MFC, they have won back-to-back wooden spoons, and I'm far too good to play for them". Don't think they will last in the system that long, and if they did, I would love to see Beamer and Co line up on them in their first season.

exactly, Watts, Scully and Trengove all knew well in advance that there is no two ways about it they are going to Melbourne. AS IF they are going to say anything different.

In reality the only two blokes proud to be wearing our jumper are Moloney and Grimes and thats cos they were born into it like the rest of us

I actually feel sick thinking about the next 6-7 years when all our guns are continually targeted by opposition recruiters, particularly in this day and age when you have a precedent set by the likes of Judd and Ball who just call the shots and demand to play wherever they bloody well like. We are going to be in trouble when West Coast comes sniffing after Cale Morton with a trillion dollar real estate deal as a kicker... and then we'll have posters on this site saying 'yeah oh well his disposal was a bit iffy anyway' yuck

[Nathan Jones's Hairdresser 7]

We've been a poor side for the last three years; we've got a lot of youngsters coming through but they're unproven, they're developing, and they have hardly set the world on fire of late. We need to start moving in the right direction, we need to start getting some wins under our belt. So, if a proven ball winner and a classy player like Ball is available, I'd have thought that taking him with pick 18 - if he's still available of course - is a no-brainer. Ball is the best available player, we desperately need good players - take him. Collingwood may well be his preferred destination, but the bloke is a professional footballer; we pick him, we pay him, he plays. O’Keefe didn’t want to play for Sydney this year, he tried to move south and it didn’t work out so he reluctantly pulled on the red and white and eventually won the '09 B & F. These blokes are professional players. We can pick three quality kids in the National Draft and then get a proven and much admired 25 year old with our fourth pick. Just do it.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Really?

The pragmatist in me knows that we are the team on the bottom of the ladder and he is coming from a Grand Finalist team - the odds of us ever getting him were pretty ordinary.

I think we'd have been lying to ourselves trying to reason that we were the best option for him because we have a promising list and hope to contend within 4 or 5 years.

Why should that matter to him?

I'm just not sure what there is to be livid about.

Who has 4 picks in the top18 and PSD1?

Who has the absolute best group of 18-21 year olds in the comp?

Who has a role ready for a senior onballer to slide right into?

Then why the F isn't luke Ball nominating for the PSD?

and when was the last time we poached a quality player?

These questions must make you at least a touch annoyed surely

[The Chazz 4,077]

exactly, Watts, Scully and Trengove all knew well in advance that there is no two ways about it they are going to Melbourne. AS IF they are going to say anything different.

In reality the only two blokes proud to be wearing our jumper are Moloney and Grimes and thats cos they were born into it like the rest of us

I actually feel sick thinking about the next 6-7 years when all our guns are continually targeted by opposition recruiters, particularly in this day and age when you have a precedent set by the likes of Judd and Ball who just call the shots and demand to play wherever they bloody well like. We are going to be in trouble when West Coast comes sniffing after Cale Morton with a trillion dollar real estate deal as a kicker... and then we'll have posters on this site saying 'yeah oh well his disposal was a bit iffy anyway' yuck

No better way to reduce this happening than to make sure Ball doesn't go to his club of preference. Might stop other players doing it in the future.

Judd wanted to leave WCE because of the culture, and let's face it, he nearly left Carlton because of it. He picked Carlton as his team, but it cost them to get him, and the Eagles were reasonably compensated (the Eagles were always going to lose in the Judd deal, he's a Champion).

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Has anyone been able to get an official list of the players that have nominated for the National Draft? I've been trying to find out if Luke has OFFICIALLY nominated for the National Draft. I know the media are saying, but I want the official list from the AFL before I worry if he wants to play for us or not.

That said, I would love to see him come to Melbourne, even if it were via the ND. I don't believe that he has a maximum of 5 years left, I would say he has 5 years of his best footy left, then could play a great back pocket role for another 2 or 3 after that, and let's face it, his best footy would go close to winning our B&F - just need to see his Grand Final effort to see that this is a possibility.

So, would we risk an early pick for him over a junior? Well, I think a lot depends on the progress of Mitch Thorp. If it was assured that we will pick Thorp up in the PSD, I would snap Ball up at pick 11. Now, before we all jump up and down, this is just an opinion of mine. I feel that the 5 years of his best footy will benefit the Club and Team. Reality is we need a balance of youth and experience, the latter is something we don't have a great deal of. While I can understand this youth policy and building for the next 10+ years, we still need to win games NOW. Ball will assist in this and maybe in 4-5 years (while he is still performing at 100%), we just might get a crack at a Grand Final. If we take the punt on a young midfield-type, reality is unless they are like Daniel Rich, Joel Selwood, and hopefully our boys Tom & Jack, they will still take maybe 2-3 years to develop. In that time, they wont be a vital player for us, therefore, wont play a huge part in us building that winning culture.

It is a very big decision for the club. Both sides of this argument have a lot of merit, but instead of being a fence sitter, I went the way of picking him up.

The question that people will be asking me (hopefully) is about my reasoning for pick 11 as opposed to 18. I would like to see Vardy come to us at 18 (just don't think I'd use pick 11 on him). As BP said in his interview today (as well as other things), our ruck stocks could do with topping up. Hopefully if we pick Ball at 11, it will make him realise we are fair dinkum about him playing for us and he should return the favor. The only club he has publicly nominated as preferred is Collingwood, but regardless of what Club he went to, he will play at 100%. If he looked Dean Bailey in the eye and said "I DON"T WANT TO PLAY FOR MELBOURNE", then I'd have a different opinion of him - I just don't think he is that type.

Here is my dream result;

Pick 1 - Scully/Trengove

Pick 2 - Scully/Trengove

Pick 11 - Luke Ball

Pick 18 - Vardy

Pick 34 - Joel McDonald

Pick 50 - Cousin Liam

PSD 1 - Mitch Thorp

One last thing I want to add, I am amazed at people saying how young draft kids are happy to come to Melbourne. Of course they are bloody happy to come to Melbourne, it's the AFL, they are 17 years old, they would be happy to be picked up by any club. They are also educated to say that they would be happy to play for us - haven't you heard the standard answer of "I'll just take it as it comes and be happy to be picked up"? Can't imagine Scully, Trengove or any other kid for that matter come out and say "I would hate to be picked up by the MFC, they have won back-to-back wooden spoons, and I'm far too good to play for them". Don't think they will last in the system that long, and if they did, I would love to see Beamer and Co line up on them in their first season.

I agree with a lot of what you say.

A lot of unknowns can happen to any player within 5 years.

People talk of a 10 year young player.. Fine & good, But Luke is still only 25 & is ready to fire Round 1 next season.

We do not need to send him to Casey for 3 years in cotton wool.

Luke Ball is ready for Battle Round 1 against Hawthorn, & The Filth the next week.

We must start winning Games next year. Luke Ball if he is available would help that cause (if he is Fit)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Do you ever get sick and tired of being wrong all the time Rhino?

With your wayward accuracy Stinga your effort has the opposite meaning and is a compliment.

[Trisul 664]

To be flippant, /wrists.

...

Great post. Not saying I agree with everything but that's not the point. Great post.

rpfc has said previously that MFC supports have to lose the victim/etc mindset. I didn't think it was this prevelent.

LB is looking after #1. I'm confident that we are too.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Trident

[beelzebub 23,348]

Our role as a club isnt to be a policeman with regards to the why's and wherefore's of players determinations. Thats for the AFL to administer.

My old man was pretty wise.. his maxim was ..what Is...IS !! By looking at it in reverse then also what isnt...ISNT !! There ISNT any desire by LB to be a Demon. Why for us to bother..why for us to trip him up on his journey to another club ? is that what we do as a club ? Our primary focus is on ourselves, what we have, what we can get and how we make it all better and amalgamate it into a winning entity.

Ball neednt be a part of it... in fact no singular player need be a part of it. If you need any ONE to make it work it will fall down and apart on you when it falters.

You create the mechanism by which all participants contribute and thats a healthy club , with sound leadership and direction. The FD follows suit and the combatants ( aka players ) are picked and amassed for the abilities and skills that can be harmoniously brought together into a singular unit known as a team.

It is true some players can lift others around them by their sheer presence and proximity. Luke Ball inst one of this ilk. he is good, not brilliant. He is far from indespensible.

Will StKilda really be any worse off for todays loss ?? No. Is there any magical skill , unique to Luke that we ought to be chasing at all costs ? No .

Perspective fellow Demonlanders, persective and context. Im fairly sure that this club will manage quite well with or without him. If he doesnt want to be a demon, why on earth drag him screaming and kicking. Please...no more about...because we can. I can smash a butterfly but am I better off for it. ?

Synergy is the notion that the sum is greater than the parts. Thats what a champion AFL ( or any ) team is about. All parts working 100% for the same cause . It only truly works when all elements want it to. and in this light theres a fair deal of difference between someone putting in an equitable performance because they feel they have to and one delivering on belief.

I have this idea that the MFC is creating a team that not only can do the job but believe it can, not for the club even, not for the supporters even but for themselves. You cant have passengers, whether it tourist or first class in such units. Under the present climate of events Luke Ball would be a passenger at best. We deserve better. The other team members deserve better.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Will StKilda really be any worse off for todays loss ?? No.

MFC must have won tattslotto getting pick 11 for McLean.

The Saints certainly have not been winners out of this whole fiasco.

[beelzebub 23,348]

MFC must have won tattslotto getting pick 11 for McLean.

The Saints certainly have not been winners out of this whole fiasco.

I disagree...they rid themselves of an infection.. holistically they will triumph from this.

Disenchantment is a a canker. Left unresolved it festers. Seemingly on the surface many will feel teh Saints jipped. As to immediate recompense..an arguement can be definitely mounted. Longer term..an read there ...by the time next season starts. The Saints will be better and stronger for it

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Disenchantment is a a canker. Left unresolved it festers.

Agree. Why the Saints let it get to the stage of a player walking for nothing is hardly a victory. They got nothing for him. Its poor handling. I would be ropable on MFC if a similar scenario played out with us and McLean went for nothing. Its seems one Club can move for its advantage. Another cant manage the situation at all.

Its a poor list management outcome.

[beelzebub 23,348]

Agree. Why the Saints let it get to the stage of a player walking for nothing is hardly a victory. They got nothing for him. Its poor handling. I would be ropable on MFC if a similar scenario played out with us and McLean went for nothing. Its seems one Club can move for its advantage. Another cant manage the situation at all.

Its a poor list management outcome.

That I concur heartedly. But if we say ...move to the point where it had fallen down, beyond repair, restitution or mutual advance then , I suppose the only course left is to lance.

I see your point though

[beelzebub 23,348]

Interesting though isnt it that we arent the club any longer that stuffs up !! ?? So far we have won big and small. we wont get every prize but our batting is none too shabby

This speaks volumes to me as to how the club is travelling. Often its quoted that you need to get your off field affairs sorted before your onfield ones will follow suit. So far...so good

[e25 5]

I disagree...they rid themselves of an infection.. holistically they will triumph from this.

Disenchantment is a a canker. Left unresolved it festers. Seemingly on the surface many will feel teh Saints jipped. As to immediate recompense..an arguement can be definitely mounted. Longer term..an read there ...by the time next season starts. The Saints will be better and stronger for it

Every single club has it 'infections'.

No club, no matter how successful, etc has its players that feel unsatisfied with their role in the side.

Not one club is immune.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Every single club has it 'infections'.

No club, no matter how successful, etc has its players that feel unsatisfied with their role in the side.

Not one club is immune.

Exactly right, just need to look at Geelong/Mark Blake!

Just been thinking about it, if we pick up Ball and all listed players are ready to go come round 1, it is a certainty that Ball would be a walk up start for our best 18, let alone best 22. If he stays that way for the next 4-5 years (as a certain selection each week), how is he holding back the development of a younger player? We could say that Cameron Bruce, Brad Green and James McDonald are limiting the opportunities for our juniors as those 3 will not play in a GF in their remaining years. It's probably blokes like Daniel Bell, Ricky Petterd and Dunn (the fringe players) that are keeping out the younger players. I'm sure Ball would be in the starting 18 well before those 3 names appear. Please don't get me wrong, I like the 3 of them, just using their names for the arguement.

One thing about Ball is that he obviously would prefer to play for Melbourne than St Kilda.

[Mr Magic 0]

Agree. Why the Saints let it get to the stage of a player walking for nothing is hardly a victory. They got nothing for him. Its poor handling. I would be ropable on MFC if a similar scenario played out with us and McLean went for nothing. Its seems one Club can move for its advantage. Another cant manage the situation at all.

Its a poor list management outcome.

With all due respect, how do you categorize it as poor list management when you don't know what deliberations and decisions were made?

When Ball told St Kilda that he wanted a trade to Collingwood, they attempted to do that trade.

Are you suggesting that they should have taken the rubbish that Collingwood was trying to 'bully' them into taking, on the basis that something is better than nothing?

St Kilda told Collingwood from the outset that they were only interested in 2 scenarios:-

a draft pick that Western Bulldogs would accept for Everitt (In the first 22)

a player similar to Everitt - Nathan Brown was enquired about.

Collingwood offered either Wellingham or DP 30 - neither of which was of any use to St Kilda.

So what sould they have done?

I might also argue that they in fact gained by not 'enriching' Collingwood for no real benefit to themselves.

Also, between Ball telling St Kilda he wanted to go to Collingwood and the end of Trade Week they managed to obtain 2 players Lovett and Peake. The combined salary of them would have used up most (if not all) of the money they had offered Ball. (not debating whether those 2 players are any good or not)

And sometimes Clubs need to make a stand at Trade Week so that in the future other Clubs deal 'fairly' with them.

It is no secret amongst the AFL Cubs that Hawthorn and Collingwood are the 2 worst Clubs to deal with - their attitude is that they want the very best but are prepared to only give up the very worst.

St Kilda hasn't seemed to have had a problem dealing with most other Clubs.

Good luck for whoever you mange to pick up - I hpoe Luke Ball gets taken by you - prefer to see him at Melbourne than anywhere else.

[Gooner 9]

There are a lot of comments talking about how Luke Ball is overrated.

He'd still be one of the best players in the team if he came, but he doesn't want to, so be it.

We're better to invest in a player who is a risk, but could be a gun later than a player who is past his best.

[beelzebub 23,348]

One thing about Ball is that he obviously would prefer to play for Melbourne than St Kilda.

thats a marginal & line -Ball decision at best ........

its not a notion thats thick in my thoughts...I dont think he does