Ball requests meeting with Dees

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Classy is a not a word I would associate with Cheney. He has very poor kicking skills. How many direct turnovers did he cause last year?

He has great endeavour and is a good mark for his size, but he is not classy.

....lacks pace.

I struggle to see where he fits in a defensive unit. Too small for the talls, too slow for the smalls. Has some handy skills but not enough for AFL.

[Cheesecake 92]

http://forums.demonland.com/index.php?showtopic=16865

For the ND:

Tue, Nov 10, 2pm – Out of contract listed AFL primary list players draft nomination deadline

For the PSD:

Tue, Dec 1, 2pm – Out of contract AFL primary list player draft nomination deadline, NSW scholarship-listed players and international scholarship-listed players inclusion on rookie list deadline

Thanks Old. They still have him on their list atm and they dont have to use a draft pick on him. If he nominates for the ND, he would then have to come off the Saints list by 10 November wouldn't he? If he elects to go into the PSD, then he would also have to be removed from the date of the election to do so?

Just to back up what has been clarified here by Old and RR, there is an article in The Age at the moment about Tadhg Kennelly staying with Sydney that states the following...

"Because he left in January, after they had lodged their list for 2009, Kennelly remains a part of the Swans' playing list, and as a result, they could wait until just before the AFL's final list lodgement on December 2, before either including him, or delisting him."

This fits with what has been stated in this thread.

So .. unless we get something concrete from Ball or his managment prior to these dates, it looks like we will know for sure that he wants to leave the Saints but play for someone other than us by Tue, Nov 10, 2pm. We won't know for sure that he wants to play for us until Tue, Dec 1, 2pm.

That leaves ample time for the media and discussions forums like this one to speculate wildly on what will happen. Joy!

Oh well, at least we may know that he is either ours or the Saint's within a fortnight.

[old55 21,360]

Yeah I reckon that's right cake.

By 10 November we'll know whether Ball is going somewhere else or it's just St.Kilda or Melbourne.

If he doesn't nominate for the ND on 10 November, St.Kilda wont delist him so the 18 November deadline is meaningless - they'd prefer to keep him or see him at MFC (via the PSD) rather than a current flag competitor.

1 December is St.Kilda or Melbourne deadline. If he hasn't nominated for a draft by then he's playing for St.Kilda (on a new contract) or not at all.

Of course he might announce his intentions well in advance of any of these dates.

[H_T 2,941]

So .. unless we get something concrete from Ball or his managment prior to these dates, it looks like we will know for sure that he wants to leave the Saints but play for someone other than us by Tue, Nov 10, 2pm. We won't know for sure that he wants to play for us until Tue, Dec 1, 2pm.

That leaves ample time for the media and discussions forums like this one to speculate wildly on what will happen. Joy!

Oh well, at least we may know that he is either ours or the Saint's within a fortnight.

What about him "training" ?

We might know prior to Dec 1 Cheesecake, but after 2pm Nov 10. All he has to do is make his mind up and commit to either St.K or Melb - if he is nominating for PSD not ND.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Yeah I reckon that's right cake.

By 10 November we'll know whether Ball is going somewhere else or it's just St.Kilda or Melbourne.

If he doesn't nominate for the ND on 10 November, St.Kilda wont delist him so the 18 November deadline is meaningless - they'd prefer to keep him or see him at MFC (via the PSD) rather than a current flag competitor.

1 December is St.Kilda or Melbourne deadline. If he hasn't nominated for a draft by then he's playing for St.Kilda (on a new contract) or not at all.

Of course he might announce his intentions well in advance of any of these dates.

Youd think that any decision isnt going to be last minute. If he is persuaded to join the Dees then he might as well come out and do it as early as practicable and then get on with training and meeting his team mates etc.

The dates refer mainly to paperwork as i see it and not the likely times of announceements.

If he's serious about footy and playing as much of and as many games as possible then he'd do well to get things done sooner rather than later

[Nasher 33,106]

What about him "training" ?

We might know prior to Dec 1 Cheesecake, but after 2pm Nov 10. All he has to do is make his mind up and commit to either St.K or Melb - if he is nominating for PSD not ND.

It's an interesting point about training. If the ND comes and goes and we hear nothing, it'll be impossible for Ball to start any pre-season training you'd think, until he makes a call. You wouldn't think he'd want to attend or be welcome at St. Kilda pre-season training when he hasn't committed to the side. Would that mean he'll have to simply have his own pre-season training regime until he commits to a team?

[H_T 2,941]

Of course he might announce his intentions well in advance of any of these dates.

Just read this. I think we'll know either way on Nov 10. He will want to train with the club he chooses.

[H_T 2,941]

It's an interesting point about training. If the ND comes and goes and we hear nothing, it'll be impossible for Ball to start any pre-season training you'd think, until he makes a call. You wouldn't think he'd want to attend or be welcome at St. Kilda pre-season training when he hasn't committed to the side. Would that mean he'll have to simply have his own pre-season training regime until he commits to a team?

I think if he is contemplating rolling the dice in the ND he'll do his own. But as CC has said they are of the belief it's either St.K or Melb. So, I think he'll decide not long after the meeting with the Dees. I'm thinking we'll all know by Nov 10, no later. He will then commence training with either St.Kilda having signed a new contract or will select the Dees, commence training and get selected PSD#1 in PSD.

[rpfc 27,531]

So if someone said to you, who are Melbourne's midfield players/options? You would add in Maric, Wonna and Bennell to the list?

I would be embarrased to, no offence to those players as Maric one of my favorites but come on?

Most players these days have the ability to play in many positions but it does not make them a week to week option.

Midfield options before Maric, Wonna and Bennell:

Blease

Bruce

Davey

Dunn

Green

Grimes

Jones

Macca

Moloney

Morton

Petterd

Sylvia

Ball *

Trengove*

Scully*

There is 15 midfield options before those 3, Easily.

Wonna has played in the midfield once (pre-season game). Maric...none and Bennell has spent a small amount of time on the wing.

Ablett didn't start out as a mid. To bring it closer to home: neither did Davey.

I would be disappointed if we couldn't turn at least two of those three into consistent mids.

My great hope for Maric is for him to become an inside/outside midfielder with elite delivery. Wonaeamirri has a very effective kick and is a solid body, and Bennell has the vision, pace, and skills to play on a wing.

Those midfield options you point out are for 2010, yes? Why so short sighted?

While we are rebuilding the players that will get more midfield minutes are Scully, Trengove, Petterd, Davey, Moloney, Morton, Jones, Blease, and Grimes. Maric and Bennell would be the next players I would look at for minutes in the middle. An argument could be made for those two to be placed ahead of Blease and Petterd.

Macca, Bruce, and Green will play periphery roles. Dunn isn't 'the right' player to put games into, Ball hasn't committed yet, and Sylvia will play a high HFF. I see Wonaeamirri mirroring Sylvia's role. If that means a midfield role then so be it, but to me Sylvia plays a HFF that drifts toward the centre.

In conclusion, HBFs and HFFs often graduate to become very good midfielders.

[Cheesecake 92]

Yeah I reckon that's right cake.

By 10 November we'll know whether Ball is going somewhere else or it's just St.Kilda or Melbourne.

If he doesn't nominate for the ND on 10 November, St.Kilda wont delist him so the 18 November deadline is meaningless - they'd prefer to keep him or see him at MFC (via the PSD) rather than a current flag competitor.

1 December is St.Kilda or Melbourne deadline. If he hasn't nominated for a draft by then he's playing for St.Kilda (on a new contract) or not at all.

Of course he might announce his intentions well in advance of any of these dates.

Very interesting point about St Kilda's probable preference for Ball to go to us over a flag competitor, Old!

We could speculate on St Kilda's real intentions with Ball. Given Lyon's previous lack of enthusiasm about keeping Ball on the list (around trade week), and then the subsequent turn around from the club (where they have now stated he is a required player), could it be that they are just trying to keep Ball hanging on until the Nov 10 deadline, to prevent him going to a club other than Melbourne, and then will go cold on him again, happily handing him to us?

Ahh, conspiracy theories ... gotta love 'em!

Surely Ball's management wouldn't fall for this, though, would they? If he wants to stay at the Saints, they will want the new contract sorted prior to Nov 10.

So .. perhaps we will know by then. (That is, if he doesn't nominate for the ND, and we haven't heard anything about a contract being signed with the Saints, he is pretty much 99% sure to go to us).

Long bow?

[Cheesecake 92]

Yeah, my conspiracy theory .. and the obvious issue with where he will be training.

I hate when my fanciful musings are made redundant by someone else's common sense...

[Ryan Dee 140]

Ablett didn't start out as a mid. To bring it closer to home: neither did Davey.

I would be disappointed if we couldn't turn at least two of those three into consistent mids.

My great hope for Maric is for him to become an inside/outside midfielder with elite delivery. Wonaeamirri has a very effective kick and is a solid body, and Bennell has the vision, pace, and skills to play on a wing.

Those midfield options you point out are for 2010, yes? Why so short sighted?

While we are rebuilding the players that will get more midfield minutes are Scully, Trengove, Petterd, Davey, Moloney, Morton, Jones, Blease, and Grimes. Maric and Bennell would be the next players I would look at for minutes in the middle. An argument could be made for those two to be placed ahead of Blease and Petterd.

Macca, Bruce, and Green will play periphery roles. Dunn isn't 'the right' player to put games into, Ball hasn't committed yet, and Sylvia will play a high HFF. I see Wonaeamirri mirroring Sylvia's role. If that means a midfield role then so be it, but to me Sylvia plays a HFF that drifts toward the centre.

In conclusion, HBFs and HFFs often graduate to become very good midfielders.

Yes agree, and agree and once again agree, but we were talking about 2010.

Well Atleast I was. That is why I said lets forget what they can be in the future. Was just saying they will not be midfield options next year.

Wonna and Maric need to get games into their body's first before even thinking about playing in this position, hence in 2010 they will not be midfield options.

[Crystal Dees 372]

Classy is a not a word I would associate with Cheney. He has very poor kicking skills. How many direct turnovers did he cause last year?

He has great endeavour and is a good mark for his size, but he is not classy.

I obviously disagree. Don't forget this kid was a teenager all season and still has a lot to learn. Players who look to have a lot of time actually have class and confidence which is often wrongly perceived as a lack of pace. I concede he did turn it over in a couple of games but not in the majority. Jetta was our turnover king early in the season but this aspect improved as he gained experience. Why? - because he's also still a kid and learned as the year went on because it was part of Bailey's 'greater plan'. His disposal efficiency was behind only Rivers and Grimes in the backline this year and better than Davey's! We all remember the turnovers in the backline because of the obvious consequences. Rhino had a concern with his size Guess what - most players are in the 'in between' bracket well suited to Cheney. I respect yours and Rhino's opinions and only time will tell who's right. Importantly, I guess we all hope it's me

[#MYHEARTBEATSTRUE 27]

Cheney has red hair

[Crystal Dees 372]

Cheney has red hair

Good point! Despite this disabilty, I say we still keep him at below market price (unless of course he he gets colour!)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I obviously disagree. Don't forget this kid was a teenager all season and still has a lot to learn. Players who look to have a lot of time actually have class and confidence which is often wrongly perceived as a lack of pace. I concede he did turn it over in a couple of games but not in the majority. Jetta was our turnover king early in the season but this aspect improved as he gained experience. Why? - because he's also still a kid and learned as the year went on because it was part of Bailey's 'greater plan'. His disposal efficiency was behind only Rivers and Grimes in the backline this year and better than Davey's! We all remember the turnovers in the backline because of the obvious consequences. Rhino had a concern with his size Guess what - most players are in the 'in between' bracket well suited to Cheney.

Rivers disposal is ordinary at best. IF Cheney is behind Rivers on kicking efficienct then you should be worried.

At Cheney's size with his lack of pace what sort of forward is he suited to? Hmmm. Russell Robertson of Carlton?

Hardly the type of player to mount attacks off the backline with. And we already have Rivers who has questionable disposal and a lack of pace.

When you look at MFC's defence for next year

B: Junior, Warnock, Rivers/Bennell

HB:Bruce/Grimes, Frawley, Garland.

What role does Cheney play, which opponent will he take?

[Crystal Dees 372]

Good point! Despite this disabilty, I say we still keep him at below market price (unless of course he he gets colour!)

Sorry - I was obviously laughing when I wrote it!

[#MYHEARTBEATSTRUE 27]

LOL, besides he has red hair, the kid can play football, he is young and still learning the game, his skills will pick up with more experience, he is in front of mcnamara, Bell, Bail, IMO,

[Crystal Dees 372]

Rivers disposal is ordinary at best. IF Cheney is behind Rivers on kicking efficienct then you should be worried.

At Cheney's size with his lack of pace what sort of forward is he suited to? Hmmm. Russell Robertson of Carlton?

Hardly the type of player to mount attacks off the backline with. And we already have Rivers who has questionable disposal and a lack of pace.

When you look at MFC's defence for next year

B: Junior, Warnock, Rivers/Bennell

HB:Bruce/Grimes, Frawley, Garland.

What role does Cheney play, which opponent will he take?

Rivers statistically had the best disposal efficiency in the club by a long way in 2009. If you think it's bad at 86.4% then either you are a perfectionist or we are in big trouble.

Junior in a back pocket!!!!! Anyway, the little champ will be 34 and Cheney 20 next year - try again!

• Rivers is our best 3rd tall. Only 2 of Warnock, Frawley and Garland will play in the same defence/team with Warnock my choice to miss out

• Cheney is better than Bennell

• One of Grimes or Bruce (30 yo) will play midfield

He's a 150 game player IMO and I'm not even a 'ranger!

[Viney Vidi Vici 110]

Despite this disabilty,

easy now, we're an endangered species. look after us.

[Footynut 302]

Rivers statistically had the best disposal efficiency in the club by a long way in 2009. If you think it's bad at 86.4% then either you are a perfectionist or we are in big trouble.

Junior in a back pocket!!!!! Anyway, the little champ will be 34 and Cheney 20 next year - try again!

• Rivers is our best 3rd tall. Only 2 of Warnock, Frawley and Garland will play in the same defence/team with Warnock my choice to miss out

• Cheney is better than Bennell

• One of Grimes or Bruce (30 yo) will play midfield

He's a 150 game player IMO and I'm not even a 'ranger!

Well put Crystal you have backed up your arguement with good stats!

You are of course totally right re team balance there is no way Junior will do the whole year in BP nor will Warnock, Frawley or Garland play in the same defence. Garland may play forward. And lets not forget injury (God forbid). Theres always someone out. We need a player like Cheney up and coming to fill the mid size player role in a BP.

Anyway that my HO

[Old Gregg 1]

Luke Ball is a midfielder, not a backman. It's quite funny how some of these threads derail so quickly...

Edited October 28, 2009 by Stop: Jurrahtime

[Crystal Dees 372]

Luke Ball is a midfielder, not a backman.

Not yet. But if he dye's his hair.............................

[rusty_kingswood 0]

Rivers statistically had the best disposal efficiency in the club by a long way in 2009. If you think it's bad at 86.4% then either you are a perfectionist or we are in big trouble.

Junior in a back pocket!!!!! Anyway, the little champ will be 34 and Cheney 20 next year - try again!

• Rivers is our best 3rd tall. Only 2 of Warnock, Frawley and Garland will play in the same defence/team with Warnock my choice to miss out

• Cheney is better than Bennell

• One of Grimes or Bruce (30 yo) will play midfield

He's a 150 game player IMO and I'm not even a 'ranger!

Well said.

[The Big Ticket 94]

Rivers statistically had the best disposal efficiency in the club by a long way in 2009. If you think it's bad at 86.4% then either you are a perfectionist or we are in big trouble.

Junior in a back pocket!!!!! Anyway, the little champ will be 34 and Cheney 20 next year - try again!

• Rivers is our best 3rd tall. Only 2 of Warnock, Frawley and Garland will play in the same defence/team with Warnock my choice to miss out

• Cheney is better than Bennell

• One of Grimes or Bruce (30 yo) will play midfield

He's a 150 game player IMO and I'm not even a 'ranger!

Agree with all points.