The "T" Word

[Roost It 1,434]

Each club has a different culture.

For example Richmond devours coaches and ex players.

Collingwood is a powerful club, yet ultimately unsuccessful.

etc. etc.

Melb. has developed a losing culture over the last fifty years

or so.

Failing at Grand Finals ignominiously.

Inability to win away from home.

Winning at the beginning of the year, then falling in a heap.

And more. It's too painful.

I will be absolutely convinced that the culture of losing

is here to stay if Melb. wins 5 or more matches.

They need to become ruthless like Carlton.

Win by losing and toss the old culture out.

Spot on

[MelbournePassion 7]

I`m not going to think about just wait for it to happen. Time will tell, far out wee have to put up with this tank talk for another 6 weeks.

[Jarka 767]

"Should we tank?"

Is the pope a Catholic?

Does a one legged duck paddle in circles?

Hell yes!!

[olgreydingo 51]

Once again defeat is a bitter pill to swallow, however, for those who prefer for us win more than 5 games, what if West Tank eagles go for the prority pick, not forgetting their supporters have seen their team win a flag in 1992, 1994 and again in 2006. How would you feel if they got Scully and won another flag in 5 years?

11 different sides have won a flag since 1990, the only teams yet to see success is MFC, St Kilda, Tigers, Bullies and Freo. Of these the Saint and the Bullies may have a chance soon. It comes to how far MFC, Freo and the Tigers. For me I am yet to see the MFC win a flag, 45 years since it happened. We have a better chance of seeing Haley's comet again if we don't do something now!

Edited July 23, 2009 by olgreydingo

[e25 5]

Each club has a different culture.

For example Richmond devours coaches and ex players.

Collingwood is a powerful club, yet ultimately unsuccessful.

etc. etc.

Melb. has developed a losing culture over the last fifty years

or so.

Failing at Grand Finals ignominiously.

Inability to win away from home.

Winning at the beginning of the year, then falling in a heap.

And more. It's too painful.

I will be absolutely convinced that the culture of losing

is here to stay if Melb. wins 5 or more matches.

They need to become ruthless like Carlton.

Win by losing and toss the old culture out.

TO be honest I agree with you, but judging by the INs and OUTs, I think it would be pretty hard for Bailey to do anything more to ensure a loss.

I think its important for us to lose without the players feeling like he's making it incredibly hard for them.

Compromising the players values can't lead to anything good.

Anyway, if the Dees manage to win after this many changes and this amount of inexperience injected into the side, I could hardly blame the club culture.

[rpfc 28,431]

I hope this "best ever tanking team"...WINS !!!!!!!

Oh, True Believer...

You must hate what Bailey is doing.

I feel, brother.

But he's doing what the MFC needs him to do.

[H_T 3,047]

as Rojik said , look at this weeks team , we are tanking, like it or not ,i like it

Some may view it as that. But in fact it is the continuation of rebuilding our list and developing the younger players and looking at ways to improve.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Oh, True Believer...

You must hate what Bailey is doing.

I feel, brother.

But he's doing what the MFC needs him to do.

I do realise, sir, that we have had some to and fro on this issue but I have decided to accept the vedict of the MFC - which appears to be pro PP - and as such I will offer the e-hand of truce. Here is hoping that at the end of this year we are all happy campers with the MFC's direction and we can all enjoy the rewards for years to come.

Ro

[The Emblem 1]

Tanking is such an ugly phrase...I prefer "strategic withdrawal"

[beelzebub 23,376]

Each club has a different culture.

For example Richmond devours coaches and ex players.

Collingwood is a powerful club, yet ultimately unsuccessful.

etc. etc.

Melb. has developed a losing culture over the last fifty years

or so.

Failing at Grand Finals ignominiously.

Inability to win away from home.

Winning at the beginning of the year, then falling in a heap.

And more. It's too painful.

I will be absolutely convinced that the culture of losing

is here to stay if Melb. wins 5 or more matches.

They need to become ruthless like Carlton.

Win by losing and toss the old culture out.

**sigh**tis but too true !!

Yep we have to do this our way, for us...and quite simple disregard all else.

.... oh..

and I want 4......in a row !! :) :)

[Roost It 1,434]

I do realise, sir, that we have had some to and fro on this issue but I have decided to accept the vedict of the MFC - which appears to be pro PP - and as such I will offer the e-hand of truce. Here is hoping that at the end of this year we are all happy campers with the MFC's direction and we can all enjoy the rewards for years to come.

Ro

Great to have you aboard, just waiting for Donny and we're away

[rpfc 28,431]

I do realise, sir, that we have had some to and fro on this issue but I have decided to accept the vedict of the MFC - which appears to be pro PP - and as such I will offer the e-hand of truce. Here is hoping that at the end of this year we are all happy campers with the MFC's direction and we can all enjoy the rewards for years to come.

Ro

I wouldn't respect you any less if you stuck to your guns.

My personal view on this is Bailey is finishing the task that started halfway through 2007 and he ramped up in 08 to give youth opportunities (Weetra, Garland, Frawley, Bennell, Jetta, Watts, Jurrah, Grimes, Cheney, Spencer, Maric, Morton, Valenti, and, possibly, McKenzie, McNamara, and Bail), wrap players in cotton wool (Rivers, Moloney, McLean, and Jamar in 08 and Garland, Maric, Strauss, Bell, Meesen, Green, and Grimes in 09), and develop players in foreign positions (Grimes - HBF, Martin - Ruck, Petterd - FP, Bate - FF, and Jones - Tagger).

It just so happens that those techniques are also the tools of tanking.

We're just finishing the job.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

I hate it but we should.

[Hannabal 4]

One really has to question any supporter that would rather this footy club win a couple of meaningless games and compromise itself at the draft table.

I was chatting last night to my older Brother who doesn't post on here and I explained that some supporters would rather the club finish on 5 wins and miss out on Scully and another top 3 pick. He thought I was taking the [censored], but then he remembered many of the soft supporter mates we now rarely see in the MCC members from the last 20 years and suddenly he wasn't as surprised. He and I are the only regulars left, but we know we'll start spotting them again when we're back playing Finals. Some supporters just don't burn for a flag. If one comes along great, but it's not the be all and end all. And they're happy to take a ridiculous moral high ground even if it's at the expense of their own club.

In the last 25 years this club hasn't had one star midfielder and we both lamented that every year we have to endure hearing about the stars of other clubs. Every year other clubs star mids are winning all the awards, are fawned over in the media, and win important Finals matches. We both reckoned that it's about time this club secured a star mid of its own. And whilst there's no guarantee, the odds are better than even money that Scully will be an out and out star of the competition. Especially to those that have already seen him play over the last couple of years. He'll win or register highly in awards and he'll be pivotal to this team seeking higher honours. Not only that, we'll get another top 3 pick by remaining on less than 18 points.

But rather than watching Scully starring in the red and blue at the G for the next 12 years, some of you would rather the club keep winning, even to the detriment of its future. Unfathomable really.

Edited July 23, 2009 by Hannabal

[H_T 3,047]

I don't like the term 'tanking'.

I prefer the politically correct 'strategic recruitment positioning.'

I prefer "strategic win/loss ratio management"

[H_T 3,047]

I hope this "best ever tanking team"...WINS !!!!!!!

Unfathomable.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I do realise, sir, that we have had some to and fro on this issue but I have decided to accept the vedict of the MFC - which appears to be pro PP - and as such I will offer the e-hand of truce. Here is hoping that at the end of this year we are all happy campers with the MFC's direction and we can all enjoy the rewards for years to come.

Ro

Good stuff Rojik.

I'd offer you a peace pipe but if you follow your early analogy....have you given up smoking as well.

Lets hope we achieve the objective.

[Akum 2,660]

Each club has a different culture.

For example Richmond devours coaches and ex players.

Collingwood is a powerful club, yet ultimately unsuccessful.

etc. etc.

Melb. has developed a losing culture over the last fifty years

or so.

Failing at Grand Finals ignominiously.

Inability to win away from home.

Winning at the beginning of the year, then falling in a heap.

And more. It's too painful.

I will be absolutely convinced that the culture of losing

is here to stay if Melb. wins 5 or more matches.

They need to become ruthless like Carlton.

Win by losing and toss the old culture out.

Agree with this, except that if Melbourne becomes Carlton (i.e. try to buy success by always doing it the easy way, cheating the salary cap, tanking on the field as well as off the field, dubious pay deals involving major sponsors for key players) we'd be much worse off. Carlton IMO is a club that's sold its soul over and over and still has nothing to show for it, the worst possible example to follow.

[Akum 2,660]

The other point relates to that saying that to a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

This is not a tank team!! These are definitely genuine injuries. We've known about Grimes' & Jamar's injuries earlier this week. We saw Grimes land awkwardly and struggle to get up (usually a player who's on his feet extremely quickly) when Ablett got his first goal by getting into his back when he was about to take a mark his back got bent backwards, the wordst thing that could happen to someone with a back problem. He played the rest of the game but his back would have been very sore once he cooled down. Jamar's been battling a quad on & off for the past 6 weeks or so.

Brock apparently carried his sore knee, which he hurt against Port, into the game against Geelong and had a shocker. Does that mean that we "tanked" by playing him injured so that our midfield would get smashed even worse, against the best in the business? Or are we "tanking" this week by leaving him out even though he could play injured last week?

And Green injured his wrist a few weeks back, nothing showed on X-ray so he kept playing, then a further investigation (possibly a CT or MRI) revealed the fracture of the scaphoid. A scaphoid fracture is notorious for doing that - not showing up on initial investigations but showing up 2 or 3 weeks later. It's also notorious for not healing or healing badly so that the pain is ongoing, and this is one where playing injured may have caused a problem for him longterm - I hope not, he's definitely one of the best at the club. So did we "tank" by playing him injured, knowing that this tricky fracture could be a possibility?

This is not tanking or list management - it's a shocking week for injuries. If this had happened in Round 2, none of these players would be playing. Even Jack Watts is out with a chipped bone (i.e. fracture) in his thumb, which needs to be treated very carefully. Of the other 4, Grimes is 50/50 at best for next week, the others are all out next week and probably the week after.

And are we "tanking" by dropping Robbo? Or considering his recent form, would we have been "tanking" if he'd stayed in the team while Miller & Newton are doing well at Casey? We're "tanked" if we do and "tanked" if we don't!

The problem is that with the current hysteria about tanking, our supporters and the media call everything tanking. Sorry to disappoint all you who are drooling for the club to show us signs that we're tanking, but it's not this week.

About all that could be said is that the footy-gods are doing what they can to help us!!

[olgreydingo 51]

The other point relates to that saying that to a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

This is not a tank team!! These are definitely genuine injuries. We've known about Grimes' & Jamar's injuries earlier this week. We saw Grimes land awkwardly and struggle to get up (usually a player who's on his feet extremely quickly) when Ablett got his first goal by getting into his back when he was about to take a mark his back got bent backwards, the wordst thing that could happen to someone with a back problem. He played the rest of the game but his back would have been very sore once he cooled down. Jamar's been battling a quad on & off for the past 6 weeks or so.

Brock apparently carried his sore knee, which he hurt against Port, into the game against Geelong and had a shocker. Does that mean that we "tanked" by playing him injured so that our midfield would get smashed even worse, against the best in the business? Or are we "tanking" this week by leaving him out even though he could play injured last week?

And Green injured his wrist a few weeks back, nothing showed on X-ray so he kept playing, then a further investigation (possibly a CT or MRI) revealed the fracture of the scaphoid. A scaphoid fracture is notorious for doing that - not showing up on initial investigations but showing up 2 or 3 weeks later. It's also notorious for not healing or healing badly so that the pain is ongoing, and this is one where playing injured may have caused a problem for him longterm - I hope not, he's definitely one of the best at the club. So did we "tank" by playing him injured, knowing that this tricky fracture could be a possibility?

This is not tanking or list management - it's a shocking week for injuries. If this had happened in Round 2, none of these players would be playing. Even Jack Watts is out with a chipped bone (i.e. fracture) in his thumb, which needs to be treated very carefully. Of the other 4, Grimes is 50/50 at best for next week, the others are all out next week and probably the week after.

And are we "tanking" by dropping Robbo? Or considering his recent form, would we have been "tanking" if he'd stayed in the team while Miller & Newton are doing well at Casey? We're "tanked" if we do and "tanked" if we don't!

The problem is that with the current hysteria about tanking, our supporters and the media call everything tanking. Sorry to disappoint all you who are drooling for the club to show us signs that we're tanking, but it's not this week.

About all that could be said is that the footy-gods are doing what they can to help us!!

Hear Hear!

[e25 5]

One really has to question any supporter that would rather this footy club win a couple of meaningless games and compromise itself at the draft table.

I was chatting last night to my older Brother who doesn't post on here and I explained that some supporters would rather the club finish on 5 wins and miss out on Scully and another top 3 pick. He thought I was taking the [censored], but then he remembered many of the soft supporter mates we now rarely see in the MCC members from the last 20 years and suddenly he wasn't as surprised. He and I are the only regulars left, but we know we'll start spotting them again when we're back playing Finals. Some supporters just don't burn for a flag. If one comes along great, but it's not the be all and end all. And they're happy to take a ridiculous moral high ground even if it's at the expense of their own club.

In the last 25 years this club hasn't had one star midfielder and we both lamented that every year we have to endure hearing about the stars of other clubs. Every year other clubs star mids are winning all the awards, are fawned over in the media, and win important Finals matches. We both reckoned that it's about time this club secured a star mid of its own. And whilst there's no guarantee, the odds are better than even money that Scully will be an out and out star of the competition. Especially to those that have already seen him play over the last couple of years. He'll win or register highly in awards and he'll be pivotal to this team seeking higher honours. Not only that, we'll get another top 3 pick by remaining on less than 18 points.

But rather than watching Scully starring in the red and blue at the G for the next 12 years, some of you would rather the club keep winning, even to the detriment of its future. Unfathomable really.

Brilliant post.

Once again i think it goes to a lot of people misunderstanding the term 'accepting mediocrity' and thinking they are taking the 'correct' stance.

Some supporters have the attitude of Norm Smith.

Unfortunately even more seem to have the attitude of Russell Robertson...

[heartbeatstrue 57]

We don't need to tank, just get all our battle-weary older players to the medicos nice and early, so they're ready for a full pre-season. And blood as many youngsters as possible, again so they're as ready as possible with as much experience as possible for next season. And sit back, chill with lots of frothies, and watch what happens B)

[52k2 0]

I wasnt going to say anything anymore on tanking as you know where I stand on this to the very emotional issue. My opinion wont be changed on losing and I doubt any of team tanks supporters will change either.

But Hannabal to suggest any body is soft because they dont have the same opinion as you do is pure ............ [any word you want]. Then to say if you dont want to lose you dont go to the footy anymore is just rubbish. I asked you a question before the geelong game, you chose not to answer....yet. The question was, again, were you going to the game and now did you? I did, but that must confuse you, as you suggested I am soft and only go when we make the finals.

If you want to lose, fair enough, but sooner or later you and all the rest of team tank will have to come out into the light and barrack for a win. I know it will seem strange not have a crutch to lean on every week' Oh we are list managing'.

Your wrong again if you think I want to win 5 games, I want to win EVERY game, every year, not like some who want to lose every game.

And if you dont think I Will be at the G as I dont hold the same opinion as you, read my tag and come visit us want a be winners sometime.

Also its much harder holding a belief whilst the herd thunders towards you, but thats just me and my high horse.

Go DEES another win,win,win,win................. Winning sure beats losing, to see LJ kick 6 this week and even Newton to somehow squeeze 4, great vision.

[Hannabal 4]

I wasnt going to say anything anymore on tanking as you know where I stand on this to the very emotional issue. My opinion wont be changed on losing and I doubt any of team tanks supporters will change either.

But Hannabal to suggest any body is soft because they dont have the same opinion as you do is pure ............ [any word you want]. Then to say if you dont want to lose you dont go to the footy anymore is just rubbish. I asked you a question before the geelong game, you chose not to answer....yet. The question was, again, were you going to the game and now did you? I did, but that must confuse you, as you suggested I am soft and only go when we make the finals.

If you want to lose, fair enough, but sooner or later you and all the rest of team tank will have to come out into the light and barrack for a win. I know it will seem strange not have a crutch to lean on every week' Oh we are list managing'.

Your wrong again if you think I want to win 5 games, I want to win EVERY game, every year, not like some who want to lose every game.

And if you dont think I Will be at the G as I dont hold the same opinion as you, read my tag and come visit us want a be winners sometime.

Also its much harder holding a belief whilst the herd thunders towards you, but thats just me and my high horse.

Go DEES another win,win,win,win................. Winning sure beats losing, to see LJ kick 6 this week and even Newton to somehow squeeze 4, great vision.

What question ?. I'll answer any question put to me. Especially if they're coherent.

It's great that you want to win, win, win, but right now that is against the best interests of the club in its quest to climb the ladder and win a premiership. That's a p.r.e.m.i.e.r.s.h.i.p. Winning will make you happy. I understand the notion of happiness, but in this instance it's very selfish of you.

Not all supporters that want to compromise the chance of Scully, or a second pick in the top 3 - that's "a second pick in the top 3", don't go every week. I made a generic statement about the flogs I know.

Your sentiments are quite admirable. Just stupid. Really really stupid. And terribly selfish. That's not to say that you're always stupid, or selfish - although you may be, but your lack of nous and wherewithall on this issue and your complete ignorance of how winning will adversely effect the club you love is quite mind boggling. And stupid.

[52k2 0]

I will put this in simple english ....again, were you going to the geelong[asked before the game] and another question DID you go to the game?

As I said, I did, silly, dumb, soft, selfish me. Did I leave out any adjectives out just fill in what you want.

Love and kisses to you to.