The players are sick of losing and being miserable all the time just like we are.

The only difference is we bleed for the club, and love the club as supporters, for the players its a career.

Normally a player would be happy to stay loyal to his mates and club, but when there is no chance of short term success and you are being offered more money elsewhere to play for a more succesful team you would probably go.

It's a measure of character, let's be honest we don't want blokes who are going to have a sook and jump ship because it's too hard, we want blokes like Grimes, Jones, Trengove and viney who are going to work hard and have a genuine crack at turning things around.

The cancer at the club has surely extended into the career of Jack Watts, and while many of the problems today may not have been of Neeld's making, yet Neeld was in a position to have given everyone a clean start - and he clearly failed to do so.

Whatever happens, my respect for the perseverence and resilience of Watts is colossal; my dismay at the waste of talent is equally colossal - and I do not see how we can blame Watts for it. He has no idea what he has to do, I am sure of it. And don't jump up in frustration telling me about "getting some mongrel" or whatever - this guy who we recruited is not a Mitch Robinson battering ram, he is a supremely gifted and intelligent ball user, who has not found his place in the team. The team has no Watts-shaped place - same as it had no Jurrah-shaped place, same as it had no Green-shaped place, etc. Nice one, Neeldy.

Firstly no Jurrah shaped place? What place would that be? A prison cell is the most suited place for Liam at the moment. Jurrah got his chance to play after he recovered from injury last year. Neeld couldn't save him from his community troubles.

No Green shape place? I remember Brad playing most of last year and was tried both on the wing and forward pocket and found to have no agility or speed required to defend at all. He was all but certainly finished.

As for Watts he started last year on the wing and did ok for a period, then play half back and did well. He'd previously played forward without great success. I'm not sure what other place there was to play. If Neeld has made any mistake (and it will likely continue this week) its playing him too much. The state of this current team is that you have to win the ball before you use the ball. So whilst we aren't expecting Watts to be a Mitch Robinson we have to see his desire to win the ball regardless of what position he plays. If he think he'll have it easier else where and just be able to rack up disposals then he should watch some footy in September. Because I've never seen a big final where you can get away without winning your own ball.

It's a measure of character, let's be honest we don't want blokes who are going to have a sook and jump ship because it's too hard, we want blokes like Grimes, Jones, Trengove and viney who are going to work hard and have a genuine crack at turning things around.

Why do you have to show character to stay somewhere where you are not happy?

If im not happy at my job, i would start looking elsewhere, life's too short to stay somewhere thats destroying your confidence just to build character.

Why do you have to show character to stay somewhere where you are not happy?

If im not happy at my job, i would start looking elsewhere, life's too short to stay somewhere thats destroying your confidence just to build character.

With some people that's fine, what i am saying is we are a genuine mess right now and we need to bring people to the club who have the character to guide us out of it, no use fighting tooth and nail for blokes who have no interest in being here, look at a Nathan jones, doesn't lack confidence or character.

I know as a fact the Carlton are all over Watts. Multhouse has approached him personally, plus Carlton players. No doubt an orchestrated campaign. They would "love" to have him.

Your best mate player manager invite you to that meeting? Did you bring the cupcakes?

You remind me of a galah my aunty and uncle used to have. Always saying the same thing over and over everywhere it went.

With some people that's fine, what i am saying is we are a genuine mess right now and we need to bring people to the club who have the character to guide us out of it, no use fighting tooth and nail for blokes who have no interest in being here, look at a Nathan jones, doesn't lack confidence or character.

You are right, we do need these sorts of people.

Of the three Sylvia, Frawley and Watts, i do feel we will probably lose one.

Which one of the three would we prepared to take a hit on if we have to?

It's a measure of character, let's be honest we don't want blokes who are going to have a sook and jump ship because it's too hard, we want blokes like Grimes, Jones, Trengove and viney who are going to work hard and have a genuine crack at turning things around.

In principle I agree but it reminds me of Sir John Monash. Perhaps the greatest ever Australian who refused to command his troops like the British and send wave after wave of man over the trenches and instead planned his battles and enjoyed much greater success. Without trivialising war, I worry sometimes that Neeld is commanding our young players up over the trenches one by one to attempt his much loved game plan but instead we'd be better suited trialing a simpler game plan.

Its true. I went to a game at Casey after his AFL debut and CC was there. I asked him how Watts was going and he said it was confidence issues.

CC stayed around and pointed out some things to me, like the biggest issue is that he used to go to ground too often in contests.

How has Neeld not handled Watts well?

Watt's played his best footy last year under Neeld. Had the 3rd highest average disposals in the team and his personal best average ect. Quite litterally he has improved every stat you look at.

Other posters have addressed why he was dropped due to his injury.

I'm not sure how you get dropped because of injury??? you are either injured or omitted, Jack was omitted.

If Watts wasn't playing better football now than 3 years ago something would be drastically wrong, it's part of his growth in the game. Whether he should be playing better football is the debate. I just didn't like what seemed to be him being made an example of, Jack just doesn't need that. If he's crook or injured then say it and leave him out.

Carlton have midfielders coming out of their ears. Lets trade Watts for one (or two) of them, I'd be rapt. Obviously we're not going to get Murphy, Judd, Gibbs, or Brick, but I'd take the pace of Armfield, the ferocity of Robinson any day. In fact, let's bundle up Watts and a late pick and have both of them. At least they influence the contest and do the team things.

You are right, we do need these sorts of people.

Of the three Sylvia, Frawley and Watts, i do feel we will probably lose one.

Which one of the three would we prepared to take a hit on if we have to?

Right this second i'd say Chippa is probably on a par with jonesy as our most important players, he is a must keep

from what everyone is saying the other two will take some convincing, Col has every right to use free agency and chase money or a flag

i really hope we can keep watts, i think he will be a good 250 game player, hopefully we can sell him a vision of the future.

That's BS, Dr. If those 3 players want to play finals bad enough, they can make it happen in the red & blue. They have top training facilities, they have a handy FD, they have handy "support" players around them, and most importantly, they have the ability to move this club forward. If they want to take the easy way out and go to a team where they don't have the responsibility of leading a club to finals footy, then they can fcuk off.

I will refuse to let players hold the club to ransom unless they have runs on the board. In any job, if your top performing employee is criticial about the runnings of the company they work for, then you listen. You don't sit back and listen to the lazy pricks who prefer to sit back and sulk rather than doing something about it. Until your words are actions, I dismiss anything you say. In that, if Nathan Jones wanted to leave, I'd be very concerned.

This is the crux of it Billy. Neeld has only just started to listen now after getting smashed in the opening games. Going along with your analogy, if you're top employees think the guy running the company is a total [censored] because of his autocratic ways and is not prepared to listen to their thoughts, it would be a simple decision to move on and make similar money in a more attractive environment.

I said it in the Time to Go thread that Neeld just may be able to coach the game but the mistakes he's made and the damage he's done at an emotional level with the players is a massive variable. If he can't win these guys back over at a subconcious level then they will walk.

I really do hope I'm proved wrong and Neeld turns it around but until that starts to happen we will be struggling to keep our better troops.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/neeld-readies-as-rival-clubs-circle-demons-20130523-2k2jc.html

Doesn't fill me with a whole lot of confidence.

I agree that Frawley and Gawn should be priorities over Watts and Sylvia, though the club should work hard to retain them all, or at least get a trade for a decent hard nosed mid if they can.

It's a measure of character, let's be honest we don't want blokes who are going to have a sook and jump ship because it's too hard, we want blokes like Grimes, Jones, Trengove and viney who are going to work hard and have a genuine crack at turning things around.

Agree, my biggest worry about JW is that he's still waiting for others to lift and lead the team into better times. Those players you mentioned seem to be taking public responsibility for turning it around. At the same time JW publicly laments our lack of selwood, hodge type players... makes me think he's painting himself to be a fringe player... Which we'd all hoped he'd be more than.

If we lost Gawn that would be a massive blow.

If he goes he's "Gawn" ...just saying !

It's a measure of character, let's be honest we don't want blokes who are going to have a sook and jump ship because it's too hard, we want blokes like Grimes, Jones, Trengove and viney who are going to work hard and have a genuine crack at turning things around.

Hear hear

He could start by trying?? His efforts this year have been deplorable.

Maybe he is trying relative to how he feels about playing at the club.

Why do you have to show character to stay somewhere where you are not happy?

If im not happy at my job, i would start looking elsewhere, life's too short to stay somewhere thats destroying your confidence just to build character.

Compare Rivers v Moloney and the terms they both left on.

RPFC in what universe is Tom McDonald more accomplished player than Jack Watts? He might be a better runner and he has a good attitude, but I've never seen a player with such poor skills and decision making get the wraps that Tom gets on here. Will be a good player in time, fine, but he's not there yet.

Also naming Hogan as more accomplished before he plays a senior game for the club is a bit rich too!

You have to be kidding. Tom McDonald has already played more good games than Jack Watts has.

Watts is a tlent without a position at the moment. He cannot play back as well as McDonald and Hogan has already moved ahead of him in the forward line - and did so last October when we got him.

I'm not sure how you get dropped because of injury??? you are either injured or omitted, Jack was omitted.

If Watts wasn't playing better football now than 3 years ago something would be drastically wrong, it's part of his growth in the game. Whether he should be playing better football is the debate. I just didn't like what seemed to be him being made an example of, Jack just doesn't need that. If he's crook or injured then say it and leave him out.

Semantics rjay - I meant dropped in the sense off the list for the game.

IIf you're argument is about transperency and if he should be played with a cold/injury or whether he should be playing better footy than thats fine... but thats a far cry from your original statement: "Neeld who has methodically destroyed his confidence and toyed with him."

Re his "natural growth". People criticise MN for not developing players, then when players develop its a natural growth - lol its laughable

The players are sick of losing and being miserable all the time just like we are.

The only difference is we bleed for the club, and love the club as supporters, for the players its a career.

Normally a player would be happy to stay loyal to his mates and club, but when there is no chance of short term success and you are being offered more money elsewhere to play for a more succesful team you would probably go.

Player’s have a relatively short earning capacity to the rest of us working folk as well. If they are lucky enough to have a 10 year career (average AFL career is 5 years) they will earn something like 90% of their lifetime earnings between the ages of 18-30. The average person will earn the bulk of their lifetime earnings between 30 and 55, so it’s hard to decry a player too much for wanting to put themselves in the best possible position to set themselves up.

That said, I’m more sympathetic toward Frawley and Sylvia’s situations, as they have spent enough time at Melbourne to either qualify or approach qualification for free agency. They’ve done the time at Melbourne with varying degrees of success, and each have one, maybe two high earning contracts left in them.

Right this second i'd say Chippa is probably on a par with jonesy as our most important players, he is a must keep

from what everyone is saying the other two will take some convincing, Col has every right to use free agency and chase money or a flag

i really hope we can keep watts, i think he will be a good 250 game player, hopefully we can sell him a vision of the future.

WE "sold" him a vision of the future when we drafted him at no. 1 !!! It didn't happen and it hasn't worked because we bought a brand new "car" and the bloody engine proved to be a "lemon" He now has to be "traded in" for a model that has a decent "engine" with a bit of "grunt" .... Sorry for the analogy, but why has he been "torn to pieces" by so many on DL and now suddenly when there is a distinct possibility he may go, some of those same Posters are squealing to keep him ??? What BS... Let him go... He will NEVER be a match winner as the other bloke (Nick Nat) we chose to pass over with a preference to Jack Watts is already a proven match winner ...Another great MFC recruiting decision... Watts was nothing but a glorified schoolboy footballer starring against kids of his own age but much smaller in stature... Now he has to face men older , tougher and more courageous he has proven to be a failure... I am sticking to my opinion.. !!!

Watts has been managed appallingly since the day he arrived at the club. It was my hope Neeld would put an end to this poor management. How wrong was I.

Neeld making him a scape goat for the round 2 flogging was disgraceful. According to Neeld he had the flu. As such he should not have been playing. Blind Freddy could see he was struggling to run that night. Neeld subbed him off, but instead of coming to his defence and admitting that in hindsight he should not have played as he was still suffering the side effects of the flu, Neeld publically sprayed him and then dropped him. It was unprofessional, and disgusting publically humiliation. Neeld (not for the first time) made him into a scape goat for the teams terrible performance. Despite being sick Watts was far from our worst that night. In fact I will say that half the team played worse than him.

The following week he was then left on the boundary as an emergency, while hacks who played worse against Essendon and have 10% of his skill played.

Absolute appalling player management. Its as if Neeld went out to try and destroy this kids self confidence. It worked. No wonder he wants out under Neeld.

Can we please stop this crap?

The media will bring up every name of an uncontracted or out of contract player for a possible trade. Its a game that the media and the player managers play.

You can't do anything about it. Don't stress. Don't worry. It will be what it will be.

At last some sanity prevailing

The day of decent journos is long gone, it is no secret most of what they get is from club fan forums, Player agents are not stupid either and just play the game

At last some sanity prevailing

The day of decent journos is long gone, it is no secret most of what they get is from club fan forums, Player agents are not stupid either and just play the game

+ me PSD