Dean Bailey

[H_T 3,049]

Extending the contract of a coach too early that was was not warranted.

I am not saying that Bailey does not warrant an extension, but that decision should be made after his three years which is more than enough time to shape a list (i.e. recruit and cull) and develop sound tactics and a game plan that will win matches.

Why after the 3 years are up? I think we'd all agree to prefer to see how we have progressed after the first month of football next year fwiw.

Ok. Hypothetical. Say the Dees are 5 and 6 after Queens B'day next year...........any chance of an extension at the halfway mark in 2010?

Even though the list has undertaken recruitments, culling, retirements it still leaves a very young (even younger) list that is still in development mode. It will still be in that mode early 2010. Do you agree CB?

[mo64 5,875]

Extending the contract of a coach too early that was was not warranted.

I am not saying that Bailey does not warrant an extension, but that decision should be made after his three years which is more than enough time to shape a list (i.e. recruit and cull) and develop sound tactics and a game plan that will win matches.

I agree. I've never understood why clubs extend a coach's contract mid-term. In the AFL, It's very rare that a coach will leave a club to go to another (Wallace excepted), so it's not like the club would be worried that the coach would be poached.

You sign a coach to an original term with specific expectations, and if he's exceeding all expectations, you can't imagine why he'd contemplate leaving the club. If he's not meeting expectations by term's end, you have the option of replacing him without a termination payout.

It would be senseless to extend Bailey's contract at the end of this year.

[Roost It 1,434]

Why after the 3 years are up? I think we'd all agree to prefer to see how we have progressed after the first month of football next year fwiw.

Ok. Hypothetical. Say the Dees are 5 and 6 after Queens B'day next year...........any chance of an extension at the halfway mark in 2010?

Even though the list has undertaken recruitments, culling, retirements it still leaves a very young (even younger) list that is still in development mode. It will still be in that mode early 2010. Do you agree CB?

Either way what difference does it make? Let him coach out the year and then as the year draws to a close begin talking to him regarding extending his contract. From all the noises out of the club it seems Bailey will be the coach for awhile yet. No need to rush things. let's say we are 5 and 6, then finish the year 5 and 16. We'll save a few bob on his extension if that happens!! Or we may decide to change coach. I hope not but absolutely no need to rush things at the moment.

[Roost It 1,434]

I agree. I've never understood why clubs extend a coach's contract mid-term. In the AFL, It's very rare that a coach will leave a club to go to another (Wallace excepted), so it's not like the club would be worried that the coach would be poached.

You sign a coach to an original term with specific expecatations, and if he's exceeding all expectations, you can't imagine why he'd contemplate leaving the club. If he's not meeting expectations by term's end, you have the option of replacing him without a termination payout.

It would be senseless to extend Bailey's contract at the end of this year.

Oh no, I've agreed with Mo and Clint, I need to go and lie down

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Oh no, I've agreed with Mo and Clint, I need to go and lie down

I know.....me too.

There is nothing to be gained by extending the contract this year.......... as long as Bailey is allowed to continue his mandate of development without feeling the pressure to eke out some meaningless wins to satisfy the board.

[H_T 3,049]

It would be senseless to extend Bailey's contract at the end of this year.

For the record I'm not saying at the end of this year, I'm saying mid next year after seeing the progress made Rounds 1-10, 2010.

[Roost It 1,434]

I know.....me too.

There is nothing to be gained by etending the contract now.......... as long as Bailey is allowed to continue his mandate of development without feeling the pressure to eke out some meaningless wins to satisfy the board.

can't talk, still lying down

[mo64 5,875]

For the record I'm not saying at the end of this year, I'm saying mid next year after seeing the progress made Rounds 1-10, 2010.

It was grazman who suggested that we should extend his contract now, but even mid next year is too early.

The Roos are handling the Laidley coaching situation the right way. At the moment, it's 50/50 whether Laidley will get the gig next year, so the club is waiting till round 16 before deciding on his future. Laidley's management are making noises that other clubs are interested, but if the Roos finished the year poorly, no other club will be interested in him. If they finish off the year well, they'll probably make the finals, and he'll want to stay, because it's unfinished business at the Kangaroos.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I've refrained from joining this convo because I thought a couple of days relection was needed. Yes we were very bad on Monday but this is the same team that made Geelong, Hawthorn, StKilda and Footscray earn their possessions. Yes we were very bad on Monday but Collingwood has done the same thing to us both times this year. Yes we were very bad on Monday but the game was horribly over-hyped and I'm sure this is part of everybodies reaction. I could go on but people need to remember that, despite us playing kids and messing around with the team structure to see what will work next year and beyond, we are moving forward. Between our top 3 draft picks last year they have 1 game. We have no forward line. We have (at my count) 4 players from Mondays team that will not be on the list next year. Bailey is doing a damn fine job under very difficult conditions. The people here that want instant success would be better off following Geelong but those that want to see a very good team come 2012 will understand that patience is required.

Good post, agree totally. One qualification for anybody tempted to run off to Geelong. What will be the average age of their list in 2012? I actually suspect that this is their last year of such dominance.

The biggest worry for us I feel is your comment "no forward line". We aren't going to be able to recruit a whole new one. We need better from both the current forwards and especially from the forward coaches (and Bailey in this area). From all I've seen this year, we could innovate better with what we've got. We need the forwards coaches to be creative and think outside the box.

To not be too pessimistic, remember we've got Wona, Jetta and Jurrah waiting in the wings. And Maric gaining experience and confidence every game...

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

All the points made above are valid.

However, I have said it before and I will say it again. One thing more contagious than confidence, is a lack of it. Sure, I want the top draft picks and yes, kids are our future.....there is no question about that. But as the year goes on, young bodies will grow weary and we can expect more beltings like the one we got on Monday.

If kids are the future, then let's play them. Give Grimes a free commission to roam off the half back line and forward. Let's see if he can break the lines. Let's have a look at Jurrah and Strauss and see if they can display some innate sense of magic.

Our older guys are letting us down, in terms of leadership. Something is not right with Chooka and he is becoming more and more pedestrian. Beamer tries hard, but he cannot break the lines. While I have no doubt Junior has the respect of the playing group he doesn't (or can't) show enough leadership on field. Bruce is gone and Robbo is trying to be the "universal" forward and is not up to it.

Neil Balme once said that footy is a pretty simple game and while he did not make it as an A-grade coach, I still think he is still right and knows footy pretty well. SUrely Geelong would not have him as Footy manager, if he did not have an acute understanding of the game and what is required to be successful. Maybe I'm dumb, but I just can't see a game plan out there, that is in line with our current skill level. We over possess, opposition teams zone of our forwards far to easily and cut us to pieces through the guts.

Sure, the kids are our future, but let us not destroy the fabric of the footy team's spirit, in the pursuit of A-Grade draft picks. Dean Bailey's greatest challenge, in my view, is not just to manage the playing list - he will get plenty of assistance there from his assistants - but to manage the culture of the playing group, so that it becomes a winning culture.

I suggest the jury is still out on that one.

[Hobbits's 17]

Extending the contract of a coach too early that was was not warranted.

I am not saying that Bailey does not warrant an extension, but that decision should be made after his three years which is more than enough time to shape a list (i.e. recruit and cull) and develop sound tactics and a game plan that will win matches.

Slightly off topic....

Clint, when in your humble opinion was Daniher's contract extension not warranted?

[e25 5]

Far too early to be discussing this -- Bailey should be judged from this time next season onwards.

The areas you can fairly judge him on now (media performance, leadership, development, weeding out deadwood) he has performed exemplary in.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Far too early to be discussing this -- Bailey should be judged from this time next season onwards.

The areas you can fairly judge him on now (media performance, leadership, development, weeding out deadwood) he has performed exemplary in.

And game plan?

[e25 5]

And game plan?

Probably too early to judge seeing as he doesn't have the horses to correctly implement it, but so far i'd say its a success.

In the periods where we get it right we have been competitive with the best sides in the competition. I couldn't realistically ask for more at this stage.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Probably too early to judge seeing as he doesn't have the horses to correctly implement it, but so far i'd say its a success.

In the periods where we get it right we have been competitive with the best sides in the competition. I couldn't realistically ask for more at this stage.

Like I said in my previous post, maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see a game plan, or at least one that is commensurate with the skill set we currently possess.

[e25 5]

Like I said in my previous post, maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see a game plan, or at least one that is commensurate with the skill set we currently possess.

But its not about the skill set we currently possess -- its about the skill set we endeavour to develop.

I want a gameplan that will win a premiership, not one that will accommodate underdeveloped and NQR players.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

But its not about the skill set we currently possess -- its about the skill set we endeavour to develop.

I want a gameplan that will win a premiership, not one that will accommodate underdeveloped and NQR players.

Agreed, but is the collateral damage we suffer, in terms of playing "culture", going to be worth it? How many backward steps do we have to take, before there are discernible steps forward. Gun draft picks will not fix a deflated culture.

We lack even in the basics, despite improved performances in some cases.

[e25 5]

Agreed, but is the collateral damage we suffer, in terms of playing "culture", going to be worth it? How many backward steps do we have to take, before there are discernible steps forward. Gun draft picks will not fix a deflated culture.

We lack even in the basics, despite improved performances in some cases.

Personally I don't buy into the winning / losing culture debate.

I think the only damaging culture is one like richmond at the moment where there is overly-intense scrutiny and they eat their own.

Players, given time and experience will develop into winners. Crushing defeats only enhance this.

If it does have the affect of making them accept losing, then i think this is in their nature and it was always going to happen.

If this occurs it just means we weed out the mentally weak.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Personally I don't buy into the winning / losing culture debate.

I think the only damaging culture is one like richmond at the moment where there is overly-intense scrutiny and they eat their own.

Players, given time and experience will develop into winners. Crushing defeats only enhance this.

If it does have the affect of making them accept losing, then i think this is in their nature and it was always going to happen.

If this occurs it just means we weed out the mentally weak.

A well reasoned argument. I only hope you are right. It is just that I would like to see a bit more "grunt" I suppose. I don't think the seniors supported Jack too well, when he copped his first crunch on Monday.

Anyway, onward and upward as they say.

[e25 5]

A well reasoned argument. I only hope you are right. It is just that I would like to see a bit more "grunt" I suppose. I don't think the seniors supported Jack too well, when he copped his first crunch on Monday.

I agree, I was shocked more wasn't done to remonstrate, especially when he was gang tackled by 4 players (although he did bounce up virtually unscathed).

Before the game, we knew this situation would occur and I saw this as a perfect opportunity to set the tone that we weren't going to lay down and accept this sort of treatment.

Instead we did the opposite and played accordingly.

If there's a silver lining then it could be that the players stayed focused on the ball and didn't get sucked in.

Unfortunately in my mind there's room for both of these things.

But in Bailey's defence I don't think the desired response should ever be instigated by the coach. It would send the wrong message to the playing group. It probably shouldn't be condoned at all, but met with a mild scalding, to let it be known that it was correct in this instance but should not be a permanent mindset (that is, to go the man).

Flying the flag for your teammate is a delicate situation.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

If this thread was done last week before the bad game v the filth then the replies on here from some posters would have been a bit different I think.

Of course it takes weeks to gain respect but only 1 to lose it and that is exactly what we have done.

I don't think he has failed or conquered anything, I think he has done nothing.

His judgemenent year will be next year he better at the very least get us off the bottom 4.

All he has to do this year is get the club consistantly competitive which we done so far and make sure we don't win more than 4 games.

It will be interesting to see how he treats his non performing experienced players, if he gets rid of nearly all of them I will have a lot more respect for him he has to make the tough decisions now especially with the captain.

[Roost It 1,434]

There's no doubt that this club suffers from a poor culture. Losing is virtually accepted by the club. Many look at Daniher's era as successful and that's fine if just playing finals is enough. Unfortunately the next step hasn't been taken by this club for nigh on 50 years. This and the associated infighting that comes with failure has led to a crumbling of the very fabric that makes up successful clubs. We are on one of our last rolls of the dice, we have to succeed soon or further disintegration will occur. Imagine if in 10 years we haven't finished better than 3rd and only won a handful of finals games, our "stars" are retiring and our list is again in need of rebuild. Jimmy has left, Connolly long gone, Schwab retired, Bailey sacked mid season. Can we really imagine that if this occurs we will have managed to turn this club around off the field, Who will fear us? Who will even care? Don't get me wrong I'm confident we're on the right track but at some point the coach is going to need to stand up and drag this club back from the abyss. Is Bailey the man for the job, Geez, I hope so.

[Roost It 1,434]

Of course it takes weeks to gain respect but only 1 to lose it and that is exactly what we have done.

I don't think he has failed or conquered anything, I think he has done nothing.

His judgemenent year will be next year he better at the very least get us off the bottom 4.

All he has to do this year is get the club consistantly competitive which we done so far and make sure we don't win more than 4 games.

It will be interesting to see how he treats his non performing experienced players, if he gets rid of nearly all of them I will have a lot more respect for him he has to make the tough decisions now especially with the captain.

It takes years to earn respect, just ask St. Kilda

[rpfc 28,551]

Extending the contract of a coach too early that was was not warranted.

I am not saying that Bailey does not warrant an extension, but that decision should be made after his three years which is more than enough time to shape a list (i.e. recruit and cull) and develop sound tactics and a game plan that will win matches.

Making a decision in Sept/Oct will bring the distraction of endless speculation.

High Tower wants a decision early in the year, but what if the decision is to move on.

Bailey does the hard work, puts up with our crap and leaves a much better list than the one he took over?

Footy doesn't care about fairness, but I don't three years is long enough to garauntee a cull, rebuild, and drastic improvement.

I think 12 wins is possible, but equally 6 wins is possible, how many wins, and to what stage, has Bailey earnt another contract?

My personal view is that he should get a year extension at the end of this year. Giving him two years to show that the last two years of rebuild were worth the pain.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Making a decision in Sept/Oct will bring the distraction of endless speculation.

High Tower wants a decision early in the year, but what if the decision is to move on.

Bailey does the hard work, puts up with our crap and leaves a much better list than the one he took over?

Footy doesn't care about fairness, but I don't three years is long enough to garauntee a cull, rebuild, and drastic improvement.

I think 12 wins is possible, but equally 6 wins is possible, how many wins, and to what stage, has Bailey earnt another contract?

My personal view is that he should get a year extension at the end of this year. Giving him two years to show that the last two years of rebuild were worth the pain.

If the MFC Board actually back Bailey then they will do this prior to the start of next year. Doing it at the end of three years is just dysfunctional and plays into the hands of the media. I hope MFC are more professional in their handling of their coaching matters than some clubs recently.