Outs: Miller, Whelan, Bruce, McDonald

Ins: Watts, Cheney, Jetta, Robertson

Just about Melbourne's best player tonight.

Fail.

Well what can I say ssssuch a disappointing 2nd half......mmmm still apart from not scoring in the second half we hung in there Im still really enjoying the way we play...just got to get it together on the half forward line....dropping Robbo mmm...whilst I totally agree with the discipline..do we have to drop them? Could we try other things like waterboarding or something

But Jaded, I thought this wasn't an issue?

Round 1, 2007.

Your issue was always about us needing to bomb it long, which is never a tactic that works consistently, particularly when you don't have any forwards capable of taking big contested marks.

You also had an issue with us not playing enough forwards, which we actually do. Our forwards all push up the ground and are getting a lot better at running the other way when we win possession.

My issue is that the forward targets we are choosing to play (note: we ARE playing enough forwards) are completely and utterly useless. Now obviously that is an issue to do with personnel, and not something that we can fix short term. At the moment we load up the backline with all the talent we have, because we know that we can't break even in the middle, so our best chance of attack is through the half backline.

However, I would still prefer to have one of Green or Morton up forward, instead of having both of them down back. And if you are going to play Martin as a forward, just leave him in the square. Constantly switching up from deep forward to half forward to wing to half back is doing nothing for us.

On a side note, can somebody please forcibly remove Paul Johnson? He has battled manfully when all our rucks died, but he is a completely terrible user of the ball and other teams know it. They let him get a million uncontested possessions which inevitably end up in their hands.

Edit: I should clarify that when I said "How many times did we go inside 50 to nothing?" I didn't mean that we had no players in the forwardline. Nothing is another term for "terrible makeshift forwards that can't mark or kick"

Just about Melbourne's best player tonight.

Fail.

Not even close.

I love the contest that Whelan provides, but he is not accountable enough and he hasn't adjusted well to the run and carry style. He consistently makes poor decisions by hand.

Cheney deserves an opportunity and Whelan is the only one that should make way for him.

I hope like hell Watts kicks 11 tomorrow and gives Bailey no choice but to play him against the Pies.

I didn't comment on the Robbo issue and dropping him, because in essence I agree with the decision, however I would just like to make two comments:

1- You can't drop one senior player for not performing, but let someone like Bruce continue to turn the ball over and make really terrible decisions every single week. I realise that Robbo was dropped for accountability reasons, but at least Robbo contributes 2-3 goals a game, while Bruce is costing us goals at the moment

2- You can't drop the only, and I repeat, only deep forward we have capable to taking marks and kicking goals consistently, and not even attempt to find a replacement

How many times did we go inside 50 to nothing? Either play Green out of the square, and have our midfielders kick to him on the lead, or play Martin at FF and bomb it long. Jamar and PJ are not forward targets.

And finally, we will continue to lose, competitiveness or no competitiveness, until we can eliminate the completely unnecessary amount of ill-directed handballs and start winning some contested footy on the back of long kicks (taking a mark one on one seems a completely foreign concept to us, and it goes back to my second point in regards to Robbo).

On the plus side, I thought our backline was brilliant under constant siege and Grimes (and Maric and Bennell) will be a star!

Jaded you didn't comment on Robertson being dropped because he is your lovechild.

Robertson was dropped for not following team rules/lack of endeavour/selfishness..... How you draw a comparison with Bruce is farcical. Give me a player who plays for the team and has iffy disposal over a player who doesn't play for the team any day.

Who should they have replaced Robertson with Newton? I think your thoughts on him are pretty clear. The message of dropping Robbo was much more important than the potential short term difference he could have made tonight. Martin was played deep along side Bate in the first half with minimal success. Green on the lead out of square is what I believe we tried last qtr but its hard to tell when we butcher the ball like we do.

The endeavour was fantastic, the polish will hopefully come.

I didn't comment on the Robbo issue and dropping him, because in essence I agree with the decision, however I would just like to make two comments:

1- You can't drop one senior player for not performing, but let someone like Bruce continue to turn the ball over and make really terrible decisions every single week. I realise that Robbo was dropped for accountability reasons, but at least Robbo contributes 2-3 goals a game, while Bruce is costing us goals at the moment

2- You can't drop the only, and I repeat, only deep forward we have capable to taking marks and kicking goals consistently, and not even attempt to find a replacement

How many times did we go inside 50 to nothing? Either play Green out of the square, and have our midfielders kick to him on the lead, or play Martin at FF and bomb it long. Jamar and PJ are not forward targets.

And finally, we will continue to lose, competitiveness or no competitiveness, until we can eliminate the completely unnecessary amount of ill-directed handballs and start winning some contested footy on the back of long kicks (taking a mark one on one seems a completely foreign concept to us, and it goes back to my second point in regards to Robbo).

On the plus side, I thought our backline was brilliant under constant siege and Grimes (and Maric and Bennell) will be a star!

Jaded bruce has been a tagger all year

Not even close.

I love the contest that Whelan provides, but he is not accountable enough and he hasn't adjusted well to the run and carry style. He consistently makes poor decisions by hand.

Cheney deserves an opportunity and Whelan is the only one that should make way for him.

I hope like hell Watts kicks 11 tomorrow and gives Bailey no choice but to play him against the Pies.

I agree Jaded. A couple of aggressive/courageous acts of play each week seem to make people blind to his overall game. He was disappointing again tonight.

Not even close.

I love the contest that Whelan provides, but he is not accountable enough and he hasn't adjusted well to the run and carry style. He consistently makes poor decisions by hand.

Are you serious?

He was one of the only players creating space, hitting targets and providing some poise down back when Melbourne were under the most pressure.

No clue.

Jaded you didn't comment on Robertson being dropped because he is your lovechild.

Robertson was dropped for not following team rules/lack of endeavour/selfishness..... How you draw a comparison with Bruce is farcical. Give me a player who plays for the team and has iffy disposal over a player who doesn't play for the team any day.

Who should they have replaced Robertson with Newton? I think your thoughts on him are pretty clear. The message of dropping Robbo was much more important than the potential short term difference he could have made tonight. Martin was played deep along side Bate in the first half with minimal success. Green on the lead out of square is what I believe we tried last qtr but its hard to tell when we butcher the ball like we do.

The endeavour was fantastic, the polish will hopefully come.

I agreed with the Robbo decision, as I just said. I also realise why Robbo was dropped, and it had nothing to do with his skills (again, I wrote that).

But if one senior player is made accountable for their poor effort, why shouldn't others?

Yes Bruce's issues are different, because he works hard and is accountable, but that does not eliminate the fact that he is making far far too many poor decisions by hand and foot and costing us dearly.

Why is it OK to drop young players who are out of touch, or making poor skill errors, but the senior players can cruise by with barely passable decision making? If Bailey is serious about dropping players who are struggling (regardless of reason!), he should drop Bruce because like it or not, he is struggling with the game plan and has done so since the start.

I think that a couple of weeks at a lower, slower level, will actually help him. He just needs to make that mental adjustment to the speed of the game plan and the way in which we should be moving the ball. I'm not suggesting we drop him, delist him, and never speak of him again.

Junior is another who is really struggling, but that's another issue.

tez, it does not matter what position you play, if you can't use the ball, you're in trouble.

Tez - how does Bruce been a tagger all year having anything to do with his disposal???

Just about Melbourne's best player tonight.

Fail.

Once again Bizkit you show your that your living in your own bizzaro world.

Whelan has been a brilliant servant of this club, however it's Cheney's time now.

Clearly you're the type of guy who rates a players game on one spear tackle.

Tez - how does Bruce been a tagger all year having anything to do with his disposal???

Bruce clearly aint suited to the role as tagger so dont try and jsutify yor comment with what his disposal is like when he is clearly in the heat all night long

Bruce clearly aint suited to the role as tagger so dont try and jsutify yor comment with what his disposal is like when he is clearly in the heat all night long

Ummm, if you play in the midfield, you are under pressure. Period.

Bruce is actually very good as a run-with player, and has been playing that role for many years with a lot of success.

The skill errors and poor decision making have nothing to do with his role on the ground. Even under little pressure he makes mistakes.

Bruce clearly aint suited to the role as tagger so dont try and jsutify yor comment with what his disposal is like when he is clearly in the heat all night long

I didnt say anything about bruce & his disposal (read the thread again), I was just asking for clarifiaction on why you were saying this.

tez, it does not matter what position you play, if you can't use the ball, you're in trouble.

How about if you can't get the ball? Miller had 3 kicks, 4 handballs, 3 marks to 3qtr time. Didn't end much better.

Whelan was excellent in linking/forward running for (I believe) three of our six goals, and seemed to sweep well down back.

Your issue was always about us needing to bomb it long, which is never a tactic that works consistently, particularly when you don't have any forwards capable of taking big contested marks.

You also had an issue with us not playing enough forwards, which we actually do. Our forwards all push up the ground and are getting a lot better at running the other way when we win possession.

I dare Dean Bailey

I dare Dean Bailey to play six (6) players (preferably forwards) in the forward line (where goals are kicked), whereby a minimum of four (4) players must always be within the forward 50 at all times, two (2) of which within five (5) metres of the goal line for a whole quarter of football.

What a joke it was to see Aaron Davey stream out of defence, take a bounce and look up to see no players in front of him.

Bad coaching performance

- No players (or never enough) players in the forward line. The game was lost at the very start of the third quarter when Melbourne had three forwards to North’s five defenders. How often would a player have the ball in the middle and look up to see an outnumbered forward or no forwards at all?

This LONG KICKING to a FORWARD LINE thing could take off...

This LONG KICKING to a FORWARD LINE thing could take off...

What's a forward line?

The number of times that a Melbourne player would look up and have no one in the forward half, let alone the forward fifty to kick it to was beyond ridiculous

Where it all began:

Wanted:

If anyone knows the whereabouts of Melbourne's forward line could they please contact the MFC football department ASAP.

Key features:

- It consists of at least six players

- It is most effective when entered long and directly

You just said:

How many times did we go inside 50 to nothing? Either play Green out of the square, and have our midfielders kick to him on the lead, or play Martin at FF and bomb it long. Jamar and PJ are not forward targets.

It only took you two and a half years, but you got there in the end.

It only took you two and a half years, but you got there in the end.

There is no chance I'm wasting my time reading the same things I have read from you for 4 years. I know the gist.

But you still don't get my issue here. I don't mind that we play 5 forwards, and I hate the bombing long tactic (especially given our current forward woes), and I understand the need for our forwards to push up the ground and switch back (and after two and a half years you still don't). My issue is that we are playing the wrong people deep in attack. Neither Jamar nor PJ are any sort of targets, and if Jamar is ever going to kick a goal, it's going to be from the goal-square (and even that is doubtful).

What we are also desperately missing is CRUMBERS, and I like that Bailey played Bennell in attack in the last quarter.

All in all, we have little to work with, and when you drop the one and only forward that can consistently take contested grabs and kick goals, you cannot expect the likes of Jamar and PJ to replace him.

Are we ever going to see Green play an entire game as a leading forward?

Just about Melbourne's best player tonight.

Fail.

spot on, but bruce, mcdonald, miller and throw in johnson (gets himself in good posistions tho) there disposal was embarrassing at best. it does my head in........

My issue is that we are playing the wrong people deep in attack.

When Melbourne play anyone deep in attack I might agree with you.

spot on, but bruce, mcdonald, miller and throw in johnson (gets himself in good posistions tho) there disposal was embarrassing at best. it does my head in........

Johnson provided the best (his 50 metre pass across the ground to set up the Frawley goal) and the worst (just about everything else).

I still rate him.

Oh how i wish they would just kick the dam thing

Amen brother. After watching the garbage served up by both clubs, I'm looking forward to watching a real game of football tonight between Chelsea and Everton.

Martin Flanagan's article in today's Age hit the nail on the head. He mentions that in the old days it was a player's game, but now it's a coaches' game.

Modern day coaches are ruining the game as a spectacle.

We had 33 Inside 50s and of those, many were delivered poorly.

And yet we are complaining about the forward line?

It never got there.

The problem in the second half was that the entire team seized up and decided they would much prefer stopping their direct opponent from getting a touch rather than work into space or help Whelan, Grimes, Morton, Frawley, and Bennell get something started off half back.

Our midfield works manfully when the other team has it, they fight it out in close and tackle ferociously, but when we have it they expect someone else to run into space, or be a link in a switch of play, or meet the ball forward and kick a goal.

Davey has been in AA form for doing these things (except the getting forward and kicking goals part) but the last two weeks has been tagged and the midfield hasn't adjusted.

He needs help and right now there isn't many putting their hand up.

Always remember that old axiom: It's the midfield, stupid...

We had 33 Inside 50s and of those, many were delivered poorly.

And yet we are complaining about the forward line?

Skills are poor, but as we have seen since Round 1, 2007 when there are no targets to hit in the forward line (or the targets are out-numbered) then it is difficult to hit those targets.

Our midfield works manfully when the other team has it, they fight it out in close and tackle ferociously, but when we have it they expect someone else to run into space, or be a link in a switch of play, or meet the ball forward and kick a goal.

This has been symptomatic of our problems for the last season and a half. There is no lack of effort by our mids, but we don't have designated players to run forward of the ball, hence we don't get any scoreboard reward for effort.

It would be interesting to know which midfielder is our leading goalkicker in the past 18 months, because I seriously doubt that any of them would have kicked more than 10 goals.

Skills are poor, but as we have seen since Round 1, 2007 when there are no targets to hit in the forward line (or the targets are out-numbered) then it is difficult to hit those targets.

We had 14 Inside 50s in the first qtr. And we kicked 4.5. And we kicked well, or the right side of contests. 50 I50s a game is about the average for a decent side - 33 is pathetic.

The problem our midfield has had all season long is putting it on someones head instead to the side of the contest that would help their teammate benefit the most.

I'm under no illusions, our forward line is a work in progress, but Nick Riewoldt wouldn't have got a kick at goal in our forward line after qtr time.

It wasn't delivered well, or often enough.