Is the end near for Bruce?

[beelzebub 22,257]

Put succintly.. There was a time you would have penned in Bruces name on any starting 18.. This must soon end and he be there purely on merit or what he can do to help an up and comer. He was a Brownlow fav one year til he hit a bus called Guerra. Never the same since

Times 'a changing !!

[Guest Cleveland_Steamer]

Here is some more stats for all to dwell on:

- He is 2nd in total disposals for the year

- He is equal 2nd in contested possessions this year;

- His disposal efficiency is 75% for the year. This is better than Brock McLean, Junior and many others;

- He is equal 6th in clearances;

Do you know what constitutes an effective disposal?

Believe it or not, Bruce is credited with an effective disposal for all his little hospital handballs that put team mates under immense pressure. The ball may get to them, but 9 times out of 10 he takes the worst option imaginable.

His true disposal efficiency would be down around 30%, probably worst in the league.

[montasaurus 0]

He is a hard running midfielder that wins his share of the contested ball so get off his case!

This is not quite right ATM.

He is playing a totally defensive back role. I would much rather see him as a forward/mid then backman/mid. Same argument when green comes back.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Or has he? ^

I thought about it actually. But the original post was way too kind to be THAT empty vessel...

Bruce's days are indeed numbered..just what that number is is unclear.

Yeah, but that's true of EVERY player. It's like saying: Not this year or next year. Maybe not the year after... but the days are NUMBERED!

Given that we weren't brave enough to trade him at his peak, he is now worth virtually nothing on the open market.

I'm not sure whether or not his contract is out at the end of this year, but if it is, he should certainly be a year by year proposition.

Man, another "we didn't trade him at his peak" post... I wouldn't want to have to count the amount of times people advocated trading all of Green, Davey, Bruce, Trav and White a couple of years ago SIMULTANEOUSLY... It's REALLY simple. The club decided they wanted to trade out one of the leadership group. They felt that Trapper would be missed the least given what he offered us, and what he would have netted us in trade, so he was moved on. Cam, Green, Junior, Neitz, White... they were kept on because it was believed they took it upon themselves to lead. Maybe they're not good at it, but they're not selfish footballers. THAT'S why he wasn't traded. We couldn't draft 17 kids in one year after all!!!

Oh, and I reckon at 30 yo EVERY player should be a year-by-year proposition. It's the done thing these days I think... at least it is MOSTLY.

[Guest petjud]

Jaded, the criticism labelled at Bruce is now and is focused on this year. When he is not getting the ball and his effectiveness to the MFC declines I too will call for him to be dropped - we are not there yet and based on his form so far this year he is some way off.

Agree there are other threads that focus criticism on other players but none more often and none more unjustified than the Bruce bashing that goes on.

Here is some more stats for all to dwell on:

- He is 2nd in total disposals for the year;

- He is equal 2nd in contested possessions this year;

- His disposal efficiency is 75% for the year. This is better than Brock McLean, Junior and many others;

- He is equal 6th in clearances;

and just to give some balance to the argument he is equal 6th in clangers.

All in all a pretty good year to date and certainly all of the crap that goes on about Bruce is simply not justified.

I know you will say stats aren't everything and I saw him do that or he should've have done that. Yes there are "nuances" in the game that can stick in peoples mind and hence stats are a way of removing the emotion and taking a step back from the argument.

Afterall stats can't be that bad - every single coach at every single club analyses them in great detail every week.

Love this........look at stats, stats mean nothing, stats are everything....I am afraid Pello you are wasting your breath, Demonland is fast becoming the reason I joined here instead of Demonoloby....a totally negative, over critical, MFC bashing not matter what the cirumstances self serving forum.

You can try talking football and pointing out a few salient facts and that there are 22 players all playing different roless, but to the majority of the posters that doesn't matter, most of the present team are useless with one or two exceptions....Flash is exempt at the moment...but you will even find a post about him at the start of the season where everybody agreed he was not the player he was......

It is either I want to win win win or I remember back in 64 when we werer a good side and wait until the next saviour appears over the horizone we will be ok..............it would be nice to hear that the team gave it a bloody good crack yesterday and everybody played their part to the best of their ability and we at least kept the best team in the competition honest....and we didn't get monstered by over 100pts last year.............

but hey let's be negative and get on with advising DB of what changes he needs to make to his team of losers for next week over in the west....you never know somebody may have put one or two good games together in the VFL and although they are lacking match fitness let's throw them in....then at least we can add to the list of players we can criticise nest week.

[Ghost 0]

Next year he will be the wrong side of 30, especially in a developing team. You'd think next year will be a difficult one for Cam. He's had a good engine and you'd have to say he gives his best, but his best is behind him.

At one time he had great promise and played some quality football. But there's nothing exciting about Cameron Bruce right now.

I hope he sticks at it but his time is coming up.

[beelzebub 22,257]

Yeah, but that's true of EVERY player. It's like saying: Not this year or next year. Maybe not the year after... but the days are NUMBERED!

OK..lets put Oct 2010 down as D-day ( well month..lol )

[Cards13 9,117]

People cry out for loyalty from players like Johnson at the end of last year, slander and slag him off then wonder why the club didn't get the best value "on the open market" for a great servant of the club like Bruce... Can't have it both ways. Loyalty goes both ways, but only when it suits the club huh Jaded???

[rpfc 27,590]

Bruce has been kicking helicoptors throughout the 'Naughties.

Some people are creating their own reality to bash Bruce, because they think it's time to move him on.

The bloke would be running about 4th in the Bluey at the minute and is contracted for next year.

As somsone else eluded, I am much more concerned with the non-progress of PJ, Dunn, and, of the last three weeks, Bate.

[Guest hangon007]

NO!

[beelzebub 22,257]

A little reality shall we

The team is rebuilding.. Youth is the key.. game time is required.

We arent looking to play serious finals for a number of years. We arent that flash.. hence our position on the ladder, but we are .getting better and heading in the right direction by all accounts.

Players such as Robbo , Whelan & McDonald wont be part of that action... so where is the rationale that Bruce will be the exception ?? Where is th eassociated logic to renew his contract beyond '10. If thats the case then whilst you will use him to effect his forward value isnt high.

Therefore his time is most likely numbered too

[Pello 1]

Love this........look at stats, stats mean nothing, stats are everything....I am afraid Pello you are wasting your breath, Demonland is fast becoming the reason I joined here instead of Demonoloby....a totally negative, over critical, MFC bashing not matter what the cirumstances self serving forum.

You can try talking football and pointing out a few salient facts and that there are 22 players all playing different roless, but to the majority of the posters that doesn't matter, most of the present team are useless with one or two exceptions....Flash is exempt at the moment...but you will even find a post about him at the start of the season where everybody agreed he was not the player he was......

It is either I want to win win win or I remember back in 64 when we werer a good side and wait until the next saviour appears over the horizone we will be ok..............it would be nice to hear that the team gave it a bloody good crack yesterday and everybody played their part to the best of their ability and we at least kept the best team in the competition honest....and we didn't get monstered by over 100pts last year.............

but hey let's be negative and get on with advising DB of what changes he needs to make to his team of losers for next week over in the west....you never know somebody may have put one or two good games together in the VFL and although they are lacking match fitness let's throw them in....then at least we can add to the list of players we can criticise nest week.

Good call - well said!

[Jaded No More 58,609]

Loyalty goes both ways, but only when it suits the club huh Jaded???

You are kidding yourself if you don't think that Bruce shopped himself around 3 years ago. And Green did exactly the same thing, as did Robbo. I have no problem with that, because they are all entitled to look out for themselves and their future, and it takes nothing away for their loyalty to the club. For what it's worth, Travis was probably the most loyal to the MFC over the years off the field, but this did not reflect in his on-field efforts.

But football is a business, and just as players are allowed to sniff around for the best deal, it is the club's right, if not duty, to look at trading players who they feel are worth more to other clubs. 3 years ago, Bruce would have got us a top 20 pick. That's potentially 12 years of great service versus 4 good to average seasons from someone who is not going to be around when we're ready to challenge. Now obviously 3 years ago, the club was not rebuilding, and did not have the vision to execute this move, however they should have been more realistic about where we stood as a list. As it was, we traded for the likes of Pickett because we believed we had a good enough list to challenge. We obviously had no idea what the hell we were on about. That is not Bruce's fault.

At the end of the day, he is in decline and at 30 that is acceptable.

I don't really get why every other player can cop criticism, but we are not allowed to ever say a negative word about Bruce.

The facts are, that his decision making is poor, and that while statistically his disposal is up to standard, when you watch him play you realise how many of his handballs and kicks put teammates under pressure and lead to turnovers. At 30, he is never going to improve on this, and he seems to be one of a few players who is struggling to adapt to Bailey's game plan, which would explain why he is spending a lot more time in defence than usual.

He is a year by year proposition, and the fact that this year's draft is not as deep as last year's, means he is more than likely going to stay on for at least another year. But he won't be a regular senior player in 2010 IMO.

[Guest Cleveland_Steamer]

The bloke would be running about 4th in the Bluey at the minute and is contracted for next year.

He also won the Bluey last year.

Shows how horrible we have been, cos at any other club he wouldn't even be in the best 22, Richmond and Freo included.

The sooner he is dumped and replaced with a Grimes/Jurrah/McNamara, the better.

[rpfc 27,590]

A little reality shall we

The team is rebuilding.. Youth is the key.. game time is required.

We arent looking to play serious finals for a number of years. We arent that flash.. hence our position on the ladder, but we are .getting better and heading in the right direction by all accounts.

Players such as Robbo , Whelan & McDonald wont be part of that action... so where is the rationale that Bruce will be the exception ?? Where is th eassociated logic to renew his contract beyond '10. If thats the case then whilst you will use him to effect his forward value isnt high.

Therefore his time is most likely numbered too

The reality is that Bruce will find it difficult to get another contract, but it is also important to note that he is playing well enough to warrant selection right now.

The entire team doesn't have to be kids - the team last week had a 32 yr old, a 30 yr old, and 29 yr old, and the rest were 25 and younger. With 13 of them 23 yrs old or younger.

The fact is Bruce has a contract for next season, the three you mentioned do not.

[beelzebub 22,257]

maybe your not on the same page here.. Im not saying he will get the boot at seasons end.. He will indeed be in red and blue nextyear.. beyond that I doubt. Increasingly , esp next season there is nothing to say he is an auto start

[dee-luded 2,958]

The reality is that Bruce will find it difficult to get another contract, but it is also important to note that he is playing well enough to warrant selection right now.

The entire team doesn't have to be kids - the team last week had a 32 yr old, a 30 yr old, and 29 yr old, and the rest were 25 and younger. With 13 of them 23 yrs old or younger.

The fact is Bruce has a contract for next season, the three you mentioned do not.

Yes, & thats why we're in this lowly predicament, that consequently is giving us the opportunity to fasttrack repairs to our missmanaged, of recent times, list.

This hole in the age bracket, (32/30/29) >>>>> (25 & under), could be a lifeline to some, who have found themselves struggling in some role. Daniel Bell, I'm thinking of you here, could with belief, transform themselves into a different player.

Maybe Daniel, this inside mid role can suit you, good luck.

[damien 0]

you guys kidding me Bruce is the heart and soul of this club, he has a good quality leadership role in this team, and this season he hasn't been that bad just having a few troubles with his ball handling when he gets the ball and he will improve on his game, he still gets the hard ball gets which is crucial to our midfield.

[The Backyard Charizard 1,178]

I have been saying this for a while now and I still believe it to be true.....

Cameron Bruce will serve the club extremely well in the last 2 years of his career as a smart forward! He knows how to get hold of the football and he can take a grab when he needs to.... If anyone remembers Rnd 6 2004 against Carltank at the MCG you will know what I am talking about!

The only reason he is still running around in the middle for the Dees is that our other "outside" midfielders are yet to develop into consistent users of the ball.... Once the younger guys get a grip of the role, then Bruce will (or at least should) be dumped into the forward line to wreak havoc....

I believe this is the plan.... I think he would be quite servicable in the F50 with a possible 35-50 goals a season....

Go Dees!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

OK..lets put Oct 2010 down as D-day ( well month..lol )

Yup. So he has pretty much 2 seasons left. Wow. Nostradamosbub. :D

A little reality shall we

The team is rebuilding.. Youth is the key.. game time is required.

Players such as Robbo , Whelan & McDonald wont be part of that action... so where is the rationale that Bruce will be the exception ?? Where is th eassociated logic to renew his contract beyond '10.

The logic is simple, and has been ignored by everyone and anyone on this site and others. The REASON they keep picking him and older guys who won't be there when we're next a good squad is because you can't field a team completely made up of kids. It will stunt their growth as players. We will waste our recruiting drive over teh last three years if they're not given an example to follow. Bruce and co may not be the BEST example to follow, but they were the best we had at the time we realised we were going into a complete rebuild.

Why 'land posters can't grasp the fact that they don't know as much about football as the footy department is beyond me. We all LOVE watching kids come through, it's the most fun we can have... It's like football porn. But the truth is there is way more to consider here than just the viewing pleasure of a clubs' members. If 22 Marics went out there, we'd be calling for 40 delistings by years end.

I don't really get why every other player can cop criticism, but we are not allowed to ever say a negative word about Bruce.

He is a year by year proposition, and the fact that this year's draft is not as deep as last year's, means he is more than likely going to stay on for at least another year. But he won't be a regular senior player in 2010 IMO.

I think you'll find that Bruce gets WELL more than what he deserves here. One particular posters' non-sensical ramblings alone are WAAAAY more criticism than he deserves. I think you can expect a bit of balance return to this topic, at least for the next 4 weeks or so.

Depends what you mean by regular. How many MFC players play 22 games in a year? I'd say he'd stick around for '10 and '11, maybe playing 16 or so in '11 depending on injuries. Then it's sayonara VERY suddenly. That's still a pretty regular gig as far as I'm concerned. And as other players start to warrant extra attention, his form will likely spike in a year or two as he returns to being our 3rd or 4th best mid. And anyway, what coach WOULDN'T want the ball in his hands? Better than Watts up against the boundary.

[Pipefitter 2,027]

Another Bruce bashing thread.

Remember he won the B&F last year and remember this year he averages 26 disposals per game. Does he butcher the ball anymore than Bartram, Morton, Jones and Petterd? Certainly arguable but Bruce always seems to cop it.

Because he is a senior player and he gets the pill that often his poor disposals are highlighted. By the way his disposal efficiency yesterday was 82% but even if we assume an average of 65% (which by the way I think is lower than his actual efficiency for the year) then he is sending it to our advantage 17 times a game on average. How many players in the first 5 rounds have averaged 17 effective disposals a game - I'II go out on a ledge and say none!

He is a hard running midfielder that wins his share of the contested ball so get off his case!

Yeah but bruce has had 10 years to get his kicking right, so its obviously not going to get better now. At least those kids you mentioned have some scope for improvement.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,192]

Laughable.

YM if you are as dumb as the guy in your photo looks then you are laughable!

[rpfc 27,590]

Laughable.

Will the mods catch on that this disgustingly named poster is Yze Magic?!

YM, Bruce is a great player for the MFC.

So [censored] off already.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,192]

I have seen every game this year and Cameron Bruce has been sadly out of touch. his disposal has dropped away and he does not appear to be setting up the play and finishing off the way he used to. I am now starting to worry as to whether he will be able to recapture his spark that made him one of the better players in the comp. Thoughts?

One just average game (against Geelong) and the rest good ones. Open BOTH eyes pal! Stupid thread and one that has been done to death!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Laughable.

Y_M... Please go follow someone else. You're the worst supporter we could hope for...