List Management

[w00dy 146]

I'm not starting this thread so people can come in and call for our players to be delisted at years end, but rather to identify which players on our list really need to offer something this year on the field, in order to secure the future of their careers, so we can keep an extra eye on them and track teir progress.

I think we're at a really interesting time with our list, and it will be very interesting come years end to see who stays and who goes.

Firstly lets identify how many spots need to be freed up on our list... I'm going to assume that we qualify for a priority draft pick, and we finish on the bottom... I don't think the latter will happen, and possibly the former either, but for simplicitys sake I'm just going to make that assumption... I'm also going to assume that we won't make any trades come trade week...

Therefore we have selections: 1, 2, 18, 34, 50, PSD 1. (I'll assume we won't use picks 66 or 80)

That means we'll need to free up six spots on the list for these draft picks. In my opinion players who I would consider to retire or be delisted are:

Junior - 2009

Robbo - 2009

Bruce - 2010

Whelan - 2009

Wheatley - ??

Bell - 2009

Dunn - ??

Bartram - ??

Cheney - 2009

McNamara - 2009

Bate - 2010

Buckley

The years are when their current contracts expire. Removing those we know are contracted beyond this season we're left with.

Junior

Robbo

Whelan

Wheatley

Bell

Bartram

Dunn

Buckley

Cheney

McNamara

There are some controvertial names on that list, I know. And don't have a go at me saying he or she shouldn't be on the list. All I've done is go over our squad and find every possible player I could imagine getting delisted at the end of the year.

There are a number of players who I think don't belong there, but the fact is we're going to have to drop 5 players off the list minimum, most likely 6. And I think that 5 or 6 will come from the above 10, and that's without any rookie promotions onto the senior list. It's going to be a hard time for the coaching staff come October.

Some comments from me on some of these players:

Junior / Robbo - both great players for the MFC. Both good enough to continue playing on, but age is not on their side. Would love to see them play on, but we may well see them exit gracefully at seasons end.

Wheatley - had a pretty good season last year, but injury setbacks this year will cost him. Needs to get back for Melbourne and play some great footy in the latter half of the year.

Whelan - Wheels is one of my favourite players, but the youth are taking over down back. He along with Wheatley are the last remaining players for Daniher's backline. Currently trying to get fitness at Casey Reserves, I really hope Wheels can get back for Melbourne and return to the form he's shown us in the past. Would be great to see him play 10 games, and notch his 150th game this year.

Bell - massive year for Daniel, his career is on the line no doubt. Just about to return from a broken thumb, he really needs to force his way into the red and blue and give the coaching staff a reason to keep him on the list. I hope he's given every opportunity to do this, but he's really going to have to lift.

Dunn/Buckley - both turn 22 this year, and both still on the fringe of the side. Both have shown potential, but are getting to the stage of their careers where they should be cementing their spot in the 22. Both should be safe this season, but better players have lost their spots on AFL lists.

Bartram - to be honest, I can't see this happening, but stranger things have happened. Tries his guts out, but many question whether he has the skills required at the top level. Will keep going about his business, but he's the type of player who could become a shock announcement come October. I remember a man with a famous indian tattoo Matty Collins, who was one of our better players in the 2000 grand final (from memory, correct me if I'm wrong) being delisted only a couple of weeks later. Simon Godfrey another one who played a lot of football in his final year before being delisted.

Cheney / McNamara - very doubtful, but not impossible. Would be extremely harsh on McNamara who was drafted quite young, and Cheney who has shown something for Melbourne this year. I have bigger question marks over Cheney to be honest, I'm not sure if he has the game to succeed at the top level. I've heard some great things about McNamara, but is obviously going to take time. Both players just need to show improvement in their own games throughout the year and they will ensure their spots for next year. If either of these two go, they would possibly be redrafted or rookied.

Lets hope all the players mentioned have really good seasons, and make it a difficult job for the coaching staff.

[rpfc 27,570]

There are a number of players who I think don't belong there, but the fact is we're going to have to drop 5 players off the list minimum, most likely 6. And I think that 5 or 6 will come from the above 10, and that's without any rookie promotions onto the senior list. It's going to be a hard time for the coaching staff come October.

Mentioned this somewhere else but it is 3 minimum deletions.

You may say that because of our position we need more new faces than other teams but this year is an anomaly.

The age change is drastically lessened the depth of the draft. Pick 35 would be worth 55-60 and so on.

I can see us winning 6 games (not ideal I know) and having 2, 19, 35, and elevating Spencer.

Whelan, Wheatley, and Bell are, unfortunately, the front-runners to be moved on. Macca and Robbo would have to finish the year strongly to go around again. Sylvia needs to continue his good form. PJ needs to step up or risk being overtaken by Meesen. Dunn needs to string a few games together. McNamara needs to push for a game as well.

To many it would seem morbid to be plotting the end of careers so early in the year but it is an important issue for us to discuss nevertheless.

[youami 53]

Mentioned this somewhere else but it is 3 minimum deletions.

You may say that because of our position we need more new faces than other teams but this year is an anomaly.

The age change is drastically lessened the depth of the draft. Pick 35 would be worth 55-60 and so on.

I can see us winning 6 games (not ideal I know) and having 2, 19, 35, and elevating Spencer.

Whelan, Wheatley, and Bell are, unfortunately, the front-runners to be moved on. Macca and Robbo would have to finish the year strongly to go around again. Sylvia needs to continue his good form. PJ needs to step up or risk being overtaken by Meesen. Dunn needs to string a few games together. McNamara needs to push for a game as well.

To many it would seem morbid to be plotting the end of careers so early in the year but it is an important issue for us to discuss nevertheless.

also if my memory is correct, a rookie can only be listed on a rookie list for a maximum of 2 years. in which case you d expect spencer would get promoted next year, so that is another spot

decisions will need to be made at the end of this year on valenti and zomer too.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,317]

I remember a man with a famous indian tattoo Matty Collins, who was one of our better players in the 2000 grand final (from memory, correct me if I'm wrong) being delisted only a couple of weeks later.

A bit off topic, but Collins was actually delisted after 2001. I can recall it was a contract dispute rather than a sacking, similar to Powell.

Didn't mind him as a player.

Robbo is contracted for 2010, so I can't imagine him pulling the pin this year (assuming he has a decent return this year) considering how hungry he is to return to the field.

[BAMF 3,787]

I have made my view fairly clear on the 'Whats more important thread' but for the sake of this thread.

It will be a tough time at the end of the year.

I personally think we will have to delist anywhere between 5 - 7 players, depending on the depth of the draft.

Im thinking 6 personally. which gives us - Priority pick, Round 1, Round 2, Round 3, PSD 1, Elevate Spencer.

Thats depending on us winning less than 4.

If Valentine continues his current form he will need to be given a decent run in the firsts to see if hes worth it.

I heard that we might be able to rookie him for another 1 year??

Robbo, McDonald, Wheatley, Whelan, Bell are all the main ones who would be gone at this stage of the year (Still a long way to go till the end of the season)

Tough to pick another. Dunn, Pj, Jamar, Bartram, Mcnamara are all there.

My choice would be to delist McNamara and then pick him back up in the rookie draft.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

My choice would be to delist McNamara and then pick him back up in the rookie draft.

I like it. He's so young, and the wraps on him, given his age, are enormous. We could try pot-luck in a couple of years hoping that another Martin comes along in his twenties and earns a spot, but I'd rather stick with a tall that can stay on the list for a few years without expectation. Let him train with and watch Jared Rivers go about it, and you have a custom-made defender.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

Dunn/Buckley - both turn 22 this year, and both still on the fringe of the side.

Speaking of fringe players turning 22, you forgot to put Newton on your list.

His contract isn't up until the end of next year but I could see him getting paid out.

[w00dy 146]

A bit off topic, but Collins was actually delisted after 2001. I can recall it was a contract dispute rather than a sacking, similar to Powell.

Didn't mind him as a player.

Robbo is contracted for 2010, so I can't imagine him pulling the pin this year (assuming he has a decent return this year) considering how hungry he is to return to the field.

My apologies on Matty Collins, he was delisted after 2001. However I'm friends with his sister, and I can tell you it wasn't a contract dispute, it was a sacking. Was told he was being delisted a week before his wedding.

And I'm sure Robbo's contract expires at the end of this season. At the end of 2007 he was considering going to the Bulldogs because they were willing to offer him a 3 year contract, but we were only willing to offer two. After some soul searching he decided to remain a loyal demon, and take the 2 year contract which will expire at the end of this season. If he shows good form for the rest of the year, but still doesn't make the cut at Melbourne, could he still be picked up by a Geelong or Western Bulldogs at 31 years old?

Tough to pick another. Dunn, Pj, Jamar, Bartram, Mcnamara are all there.

My choice would be to delist McNamara and then pick him back up in the rookie draft.

Probably should've included PJ and Jamar in the list, the fact is though you still need 3-4 ruckman on your list, so even if we elevate Spencer, I can't see any of the ruckman losing their spot.

Agree on McNamara, if he doesn't threaten for senior selection toward the end of the season, then I think he could be headed for the rookie list. I can't see the club cutting him all together.

Speaking of fringe players turning 22, you forgot to put Newton on your list.

His contract isn't up until the end of next year but I could see him getting paid out.

I should've included him on the first list. However given he's contracted till next year, he's safe. The club signed him mid last year for an extra 2 seasons, they wouldn't have done that if they weren't willing to give him the time to develop.

[Toad33 57]

... I'm also going to assume that we won't make any trades come trade week...

I find this a baffling statement.

Why wouldn't the club try and trade these players if they had some value to improve our position in the draft.

I have heard it said that there will be NO trades this year because of the impact GC17 will have on the talent pool in the National Draft.

I beg to differ....indulge me for a moment.

Imagine you are currenlty a top eight club who have NO prospect of getting your hands on a low draft pick(s) in the coming years without giving your best player to either GC17 or Western Sydney to get one.

How do you improve your list?

Do you use your late round draft pick(s) on 'speculative prospects' and hope they develop quickly while the rest of your list ages, or, do you use them to 'top up' with other clubs experienced fringe players and hope they are the difference that will win you the Holy Grail?

Sydney and now St Kilda are two prime examples of topping up with other clubs aged, troubled, bit or fringe players to fill roles in their teams IMMEDIATELY.

I don't for a second think we have to 'clean out' again just to make a available a heap of draft picks for this year. But we do need to use at least three (AFL rules) and if they are gained through trading our 'fringe players' we could end up in an even better position in this years draft.

If players like Whelan, Wheatley, Robbo finish the season off strongly, but hold no real place in the future of our team, the club would be derelict in it's duty not to try to gaet something for them before just showing them the door. And I dont' think the players would mind if it extends their career for another year.

Win-win.

Go Dees - Building for the Future.

[Yze_Magic 3]

Daniel Bell the only certain delisting.

[H_T 2,941]

Firstly lets identify how many spots need to be freed up on our list... I'm going to assume that we qualify for a priority draft pick, and we finish on the bottom... I don't think the latter will happen, and possibly the former either, but for simplicitys sake I'm just going to make that assumption... I'm also going to assume that we won't make any trades come trade week...

Therefore we have selections: 1, 2, 18, 34, 50, PSD 1. (I'll assume we won't use picks 66 or 80)

That means we'll need to free up six spots on the list for these draft picks. In my opinion players who I would consider to retire or be delisted are:

Junior - 2009

Robbo - 2009

Bruce - 2010

Whelan - 2009

Wheatley - ??

Bell - 2009

Dunn - ??

Bartram - ??

Cheney - 2009

McNamara - 2009

Bate - 2010

Buckley

Interesting list. Whilst it may be a worthwhile exercise, I think your a tad too early tbh.

Out of interest, why does it have to be "six" spots you want to free up? It could be 4 or 5.

I think the ones in danger at the moment are Whelan, Bell. Still, we are only 4 rounds in with plenty of footy to be played.

[w00dy 146]

Interesting list. Whilst it may be a worthwhile exercise, I think your a tad too early tbh.

Out of interest, why does it have to be "six" spots you want to free up? It could be 4 or 5.

I think the ones in danger at the moment are Whelan, Bell. Still, we are only 4 rounds in with plenty of footy to be played.

I agree it is pretty early to be considering this stuff, but the purpose of it is to identify those players who will be playing for their careers this season, and keeping a closer eye on them, and the opportunities they get to prove themselves.

And it doesn't have to be six spots. It could be less. I just assumed the way we've drafted aggressively in the past, that this would continue and we would chose to use 6 picks.

However you may be right, and we could use 5 or maybe only 4 selections, as this is the first comprimised draft, due to the draft age being increased by 4 months. So there are only 2/3rds the amount of players eligible this year compared to previous years.

I find this a baffling statement.

Why wouldn't the club try and trade these players if they had some value to improve our position in the draft.

I'm not saying I don't think we'll trade, or that we shouldn't trade. It was just an assumption I made purely for the exercise, to make it simpler... Once you start talking about including trading, well then who do we trade? What picks/players do we get for them? It's all so speculative at this time of year that it just makes it a whole lot more complicated.

[45HG 1,539]

What's the minimum turn over we're required to make?

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

I'm not saying I don't think we'll trade, or that we shouldn't trade. It was just an assumption I made purely for the exercise, to make it simpler... Once you start talking about including trading, well then who do we trade? What picks/players do we get for them? It's all so speculative at this time of year that it just makes it a whole lot more complicated.

It does make it trickier. I don't want to choose players coz there is a lot of footy left to play but if we traded for another player then we still have to find a spot for the draftees so I would assume (if I'm on the same wavelength as the MFC) that the trade might be "player x and pick 38 for pick 21" or something like that.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Robbo is contracted for 2010, so I can't imagine him pulling the pin this year (assuming he has a decent return this year) considering how hungry he is to return to the field.

Robbo has a 2 yr contract that expires this year. I understand from my sources on the inside Robbo is keen to saddle up again next year, fitness allowing.

We need to cut 6 to 7 players this year. We need to keep refershing the list.

For mine Junior, Wheatley and Whelan will retire. I will punt on at least McNamara, Bell and PJ to be cut.

And given that this is the last pre GC draft you can forget teams offering draft picks for NQR players.....particularly ours.

And what players do we have that are surplus to our needs that other Clubs will give up their draft picks for? I cant think of one MFC player in that boat.

[Madness 44]

Kyle Cheyney? LOL no chance, get a clue...

[w00dy 146]

Kyle Cheyney? LOL no chance, get a clue...

Just because you're young and you're playing AFL doesn't always mean you're safe.

Jace Bode anyone? Was only 20 in his last season of AFL, played 5 games and got delisted.

I'm not saying he will go, or that I think he should go, and I'm definitely not saying he's not better than Jace Bode. It's a very very remote possibility.

But if the coaching staff identify that he doesn't fit into their long term plans, then there's nothing keeping him on the list. Jamie Bennell is ahead of him at the moment, and Jack Grimes is yet to come into the side.

He's had one good game so far where he got plenty of the footy, but his opponents have also been very damaging.

[Madness 44]

He will be a good player for MFC,just needs to work on a few things, he is light years ahead of bode at that age...

[Guest unstable punt]

no way Cheney, Dunn, Bell, Bate or Buckley, you are delusional and have NO IDEA if you think that

:angry:

sick of dropkicks making irrational statements, learn the game first dipstick

[Jaded No More 58,489]

What's the minimum turn over we're required to make?

4?

I think you are required to draft at least 4 new players into the club each year. However we will obviously be looking at a minimum of 6 given we'll have some pretty good picks again.

However, it is far far too early to be making calls on anyone's future. This time last year people wanted Garland and Warnock gone, and I'm sure some had question marks over Rivers and his ability to ever return to fitness (some of us still doubt, but are stalking his progress to ease the worry ).

At the end of the day very few players on our list can be given the "gone" stamp in Round 5.

[smoking dog 0]

Jamar / Bartram / Bell + Pick 35 (or thereabouts) for a higher draft pick? Adelaide teams might go for Jamar . . . . . and Bell for that matter.

[twist 0]

Jamar / Bartram / Bell + Pick 35 (or thereabouts) for a higher draft pick? Adelaide teams might go for Jamar . . . . . and Bell for that matter.

They already have a few useless ruckman, why the hell would they want another one?

Tell him he's dreaming.

[rpfc 27,570]

It is 3 minimum deletions in a shallow draft.

Why do we NEED to refresh our list this year?

Quality over quantity.

Prendergast and Bailey may say that a 19 year old we already have is a better option than Pick 35 or 51.

[dee-luded 2,958]

It is 3 minimum deletions in a shallow draft.

Why do we NEED to refresh our list this year?

Quality over quantity.

Prendergast and Bailey may say that a 19 year old we already have is a better option than Pick 35 or 51.

Spencer is putting the Heat on Jamar, 2 crash/bash hitout rucks.

Meeson, surprisingly, is putting pressure on PJ, 2 follower types.

By my reckoning, we need 2, or 3 tall forwards, + 1 @ least, elite midfielder, (Scully).

At least one more ruck, (maybe rookie).

I'd say we need @ minimum, 5 recruits, this 2009 drafting season.

[w00dy 146]

By my reckoning, we need 2, or 3 tall forwards, + 1 @ least, elite midfielder, (Scully).

At least one more ruck, (maybe rookie).

I'd say we need @ minimum, 5 recruits, this 2009 drafting season.

I disagree.

I think we only need one more key forward. With Watts + another key forward, Aussie, Jurrah and whoever else you want to play down there (Dunn, Miller, Bate, Maric, Jetta) we've got a pretty solid forward line.

Having said that, the midfield is most important. Look at Geelong, not a great forward line, but have been the dominant side for 2 years, running into their 3rd. Why? Because of their midfield... Name the last side to win the flag that didn't have one of the best midfields in the comp? I'd say it was North Melbourne in 1999, and they only won it because Essendon choked the week before.

So one more key forward, then mids, mids and more mids...