The Cousins Saga

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

he would be a great role model for all our young blokes coming through

I never thought I'd see these words... I can't believe it.

Ben Cousins... role model. I just... I'm speechless. Even with your caveat about him staying clean... and your "opinion" that he will. What "opinion" is that exactly? Seriously, if you have actually dealt with addiction yourself (I know I have) or if you have a background in drug rehabilitation, then I'd take it more seriously... but if you don't, what are you basing your opinion on? Just a guess? Fair dinkum, if that's what most people are basing their choice to recruit him on, then I'm at a loss...

Again, I'm not saying he should be ignored because of his addiction, but I don't see how a 30 year old player who has missed two years of footy can teach these things, and not one other person around the club can do it.

Yup. Get him at 25 and drug free and he could instill a culture... Crawford needed a whole career to inspire his team-mates and he was regarded as one of the great trainers. 2 years of Byron, a season of Moorcroft... They didn't change a single thing... Byron played some good footy, then contributed, with his attitude and laziness, to the axing of one of our most important identities. Moorcroft took his paycheck and ran...

AT BEST!!! This is all that Cousins would bring to the club. And that's if he's clean... that and a handful of on-field highlights. Oh, and it would contribute to our reputation as an old-folks home for has-been footballers in need of a final payment for their mortgage...

[donny williams no 25 0]

We don't have the resources or clout to protect him from the media, we don't have the team to offer him a chance to get to finals again, we'd win a few more matches thus weakening our position in the draft, and just because SOME people are in a forgiving mood in regards to his condition doesn't mean they're right. How can SO MANY PEOPLE just make this enormous assumption that the guy will come back and be a saint?!!!! (not a saints player) He could come in and spend two years showing the kids how to train hard, and it's equally as likely that a bunch of 17 year olds will turn around and follow in his footsteps in more ways than one!!!! How could any regular footy fan be so sure that the guy will be clean, unaffected by drugs, and against them COMPLETELY.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want drugs, or the reputation of drugs anywhere near my club. I'm not stupid enough to think that it doesn't go on, or hasn't in the past, but I'm not about to condone the recruiting of a player that has a history with it and has shown little if any genuine remorse about his drug related past. MFC is in a precarious position and needs, more than at any time in its history to make every step it can towards a flag, lest we fall away again and become even closer to relocation or merger. The Collingwoods, and Essendons of this world can take these risks and wear the damage if there is any, but not us.

And don't give me this wishy/washy addiction malarkey... No offence, but I don't care if it IS a sickness... He can go and be sick somewhere else. I don't wish him any harm, and hope he gets better and sets about repairing the damage he's done to his reputation AND the delicate fabric that is Aussie Rules footy, but I have to be honest I'm not about to put the guy ahead of MFC... It's as simple as that.

Recruiting a 30 yr old to a club that is nowhere near a flag, full of impressionable kids... Jesus I worry about MFC fans sometimes.

So you're happy to keep on the list a player who was so drunk at a night club during the season that he missed a ride home with a murderer. A talented player who's never been fit in his life. No 3 draft pick wasn't he?. You don't think that someone such as Cousins could teach C.S a thing or two about fitness, about trying so hard you're sick, even about getting the ball more than the few times he does.

I repeat--you don't draft him if he's not clean. If the club is not absolutely satisfied about that and about his physical condition, hamstring etc,, forget him. If he is clean, and fit, he's the greatest bargain imaginable.

[45HG 1,559]

I'm sure Cousins could teach C.S. lots of things...

[maximum bob 462]

My concern in the Cousins debate is that at least three clubs, and very probably more, not only put a big microscope on Ben's suitability/readiness for their club but also looked hard at the macro aspects of signing him up in terms of media impact and the unsettling influence this could bring to the rest of the team and the perception of the club culture. Regardless of how clean, enthusiastic and talented he is at the moment.

Collingwood would recruit a half-starved dog if it thought it could move into serious contention and it said no after what was described as an exhausting and intensive assessment which included their heavies meeting Cousins and doing all their background checks. The popular phrase is 'due diligence' and the computer still said NO.

Every single AFL club has said no and probably for very good reason.

For mine, we're better off letting DB focus on our young developing list without him getting caught up in a media circus and attending weekly counselling sessions with attendant psychologists and social workers.

Cousins is a definite NO from me.

[donny williams no 25 0]

My concern in the Cousins debate is that at least three clubs, and very probably more, not only put a big microscope on Ben's suitability/readiness for their club but also looked hard at the macro aspects of signing him up in terms of media impact and the unsettling influence this could bring to the rest of the team and the perception of the club culture. Regardless of how clean, enthusiastic and talented he is at the moment.

Collingwood would recruit a half-starved dog if it thought it could move into serious contention and it said no after what was described as an exhausting and intensive assessment which included their heavies meeting Cousins and doing all their background checks. The popular phrase is 'due diligence' and the computer still said NO.

Every single AFL club has said no and probably for very good reason.

For mine, we're better off letting DB focus on our young developing list without him getting caught up in a media circus and attending weekly counselling sessions with attendant psychologists and social workers.

Cousins is a definite NO from me.

ok--I can accept that. But don't you think they gave him a miss because of sponsorship issues?

And, curiously, if I supported a club that might win a flag next year, I wouldn't pick him. I say this because such a club can't afford to be de-railed by a huge media fuss if Cousins falls off the rails.It would be too disruptive, not worth the risk.Not so disruptive at Melbourne in the next year or 2.

. And I'm not seeking him because he might help win a few matches in 2009.It's the teaching of fitness, on-ball leadership, footy smarts that I'd like to see--things that might help the 19yos for 10 years to come. And the relationship with Stynes is something for the Club to work with--a real plus for Melbourne is that we have an outstanding Chairman whose whole life has been with troubled youth.

It could be turned into very positive, rather than negative,publicity--which we could well use!

[45HG 1,559]

Sponsorship issues have probably come into the picture of late, but the club has also been saying for months that we would only draft players under the age of 23, obviously Cousins does not meet this base requirement

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If he is clean, and fit, he's the greatest bargain imaginable.

You need to be able to confidently satisfy yourself of both factors not only at the time of signing but throughout his contract. You and 16 other Clubs cant do it.

Bailey has said categorically we wont be getting Cousins. End of story. Its a dead debate

Its amazing Cousins is seen as a "role model" when 16 clubs dont see it that way and he has almost single handedly destroyed the culture at a premiership club already.

BTW, sponsorship has been used as a front by some Clubs for an easy exit by them when there due diligence has revealed potential risks. Sponsorship interests are an influence but they have been a convenient crutch for one Club to back out at the last moment.

[Trisul 664]

Cousins ain't coming, 100% agreed - club has categorically stated numerous times.

Still. IF it was a friend or family member affected by drug (dictionary definition) addiction, would the venom shown in this thread still exist in the minds of some of the posters?

IMO, the best way to help people is to teach them how to help others. I believe this is the mantle Bailey (and Jim) wear, and that the MFC was probably the best placed (not the best resourced) club to provide that opportunity. Media scrutiny and associated sponsorship concerns are very important considerations. Hence the next-best 'trainer' proposition. I still think it's viable, but given the totality of his rejection by the clubs perhaps a year or so as a clean captain/coach in a decent competition might cut some peoples mustard. Ben himself will certainly now need time to rebuild from a shattered confidence and a low/est self esteem level.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Cousins ain't coming, 100% agreed - club has categorically stated numerous times.

Still. IF it was a friend or family member affected by drug (dictionary definition) addiction, would the venom shown in this thread still exist in the minds of some of the posters?

IMO, the best way to help people is to teach them how to help others. I believe this is the mantle Bailey (and Jim) wear, and that the MFC was probably the best placed (not the best resourced) club to provide that opportunity. Media scrutiny and associated sponsorship concerns are very important considerations. Hence the next-best 'trainer' proposition. I still think it's viable, but given the totality of his rejection by the clubs perhaps a year or so as a clean captain/coach in a decent competition might cut some peoples mustard. Ben himself will certainly now need time to rebuild from a shattered confidence and a low/est self esteem level.

Well I think Donny Williams is dead right! This bloke could be a tremendous asset for a few years--provided the Club can be satisfied he's clean--if not, I agree, let's forget it.If he is, he's a bargain we should not ignore.

One other point.We are the keen Melbourne supporters, we'll go and support them through adversity.But not many independent observers feel that way. Imagine trying to attract new supporters this year or next. Cousins would create interest! People would turn up to cheer or boo him--I don't care. At least they would come.And I agree about his work ethic which is greater by far than anyone at Melbourne.Forget the smart-arse jokes--this bloke could help our midfielders immensely.Long after he'd ceased to play. IKNOW the Club has made an earlier decision--it's now a new ball-game and the Club should reconsider

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Still. IF it was a friend or family member affected by drug (dictionary definition) addiction, would the venom shown in this thread still exist in the minds of some of the posters?

I have nothing against Ben's family and friends helping him through this, in fact, I think it is essential to his recovery that they do. But that is a completely different issue and has nothing to do with the fact that I don't want his problems and more importantly, his "friends", hanging around our very young and very vulnerable list. God knows we have more than enough [censored] to deal with as it is, and we are just not equipped to deal with someone like Cousins. If another club is, great, but we cannot and should not take him on.

Besides, Ben still seems to have a hell of a lot of issues to resolve and IMO a return to football is not the way to go about it. It seems that football was indeed the fuel that kept the fire of his addiction burning, it gave him the financial resources and social environment in which to continue his drug habit, and stepping away from all that is probably a good idea.

The reality is that all drug users eventually pay a very heavy price for their addiction, and Ben isn't any different. He had a lot going for him, but sadly blew (no pun intended) it all away on drugs, which is the nature of the beast really. A real shame, but hopefully not the end of the road for him, as he is still only very young and has a lot of living left to do while clean and sober.

[Trisul 664]

IKNOW the Club has made an earlier decision--it's now a new ball-game and the Club should reconsider

Yes but each and every time some extra consideration has come into play in BC's case, and importantly each time in the youth category, the club has firmly stated there is no change in its position. There is nothing to reconsider that isn't against that base requirement, and it's not going to change this pre-season.

[Redleg 41,431]

Forgetting all the baggage arguments the simple fact is he is a 30 year old who hasn't played in 18 months and whose last 20 games included 3 serious injuries.

Why the hell are we discussing this?

[45HG 1,559]

Can this thread be locked?

It's going nowhere, with no new arguments or angles

[Trisul 664]

Forgetting all the baggage arguments the simple fact is he is a 30 year old who hasn't played in 18 months and whose last 20 games included 3 serious injuries.

Why the hell are we discussing this?

Fair points. Is compassion an ok answer?

Err, lock request. OK. I'll shut up.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Fair points. Is compassion an ok answer?

Err, lock request. OK. I'll shut up.

Well, lock it if you wish!

I know lots of Demons supporters who are asking the question--why not grab him?

It looked like costing plenty--no longer so.

Are we strong in hard running midfielders--no, we're not.

Do we have mid-field leaders--without Mc Lean who's out for many weeks I believe--no

Is there anyone who can bring a bit of excitement to our list--not immediately.A few great prospects who I like, but not yet.

If Robert Harvey says that Cousins has 5 years of good football left in him, well, hell, that's longer than Melbourne may have. Have any of you lovely optimists turned your mind to Melbourne in 2010 and beyond?. Can you envisage the business plan that keeps us on the field, in Melbourne?

WE CAN'T AFFORD TO BE BORING AND LAST OR NEARLY LAST FOR THE NEXT 2-3 YEARS--SORRY!

[e25 5]

Well, lock it if you wish!

I know lots of Demons supporters who are asking the question--why not grab him?

It looked like costing plenty--no longer so.

Are we strong in hard running midfielders--no, we're not.

Do we have mid-field leaders--without Mc Lean who's out for many weeks I believe--no

Is there anyone who can bring a bit of excitement to our list--not immediately.A few great prospects who I like, but not yet.

If Robert Harvey says that Cousins has 5 years of good football left in him, well, hell, that's longer than Melbourne may have. Have any of you lovely optimists turned your mind to Melbourne in 2010 and beyond?. Can you envisage the business plan that keeps us on the field, in Melbourne?

WE CAN'T AFFORD TO BE BORING AND LAST OR NEARLY LAST FOR THE NEXT 2-3 YEARS--SORRY!

I think you're the optimist mate if you really think Cuz would be a good thing for MFC.

I'm pragmatist & i know the best case scenario with Cousins coming to Melb unfortunately doesn't justify doing it.

Its has been debated on this forum ad nauseum and Bailey has stated publicly it WILL NOT happen.

Accept it. Move on. ... like many others already have.

[montasaurus 0]

Did Cousins provide proof by 'lock of hair' that he is clean? - No.

I don't think this thread should be locked. Place it on the backburner guys because there will be more twists to come.

I was in the pro cousins camp until the above last week.

Also Casey S looks like a worth while pick therefore Richmond can have him. In a perfect world, if BC was over his demons I still think he would have been a valued pick to MFC but not now! If it was me I would have put myself on the record just like a good used car salesman - Any test welcome!

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Did Cousins play any kind of football last year, even though he had the opportunity? - No.

Has Cousins come out from behind his manager and stated his intentions? - No.

Has Cousins admitted his problems and provided marketing scope to become a role model for young athletes? - No.

Did Cousins provide proof by 'lock of hair' that he is clean? - No.

Has Cousins forgone his prior drug using 'social' group. Don't know, but;

Did Cousins fly to Melbourne to attend the funeral, and carry the coffin, of a 'suspect' drug criminal, a couple of weeks ago? - Yes

Did Collingwood, St Kilda and Brisbane do due diligence on Cousin's fitness for purpose? - Yes.

Did any of the aforementioned draft him, after spending much money investigating him? - No.

stueyspencer no12, you have no reasonable argument why MFC would waste their time!

I don't think this thread should be locked. Place it on the backburner guys because there will be more twists to come.

you are addressing the issue as to whether he's clean--I agree--that is critical. If there's a doubt amongst experts, at MFC or anywhere else--forget it!I would rely on Jim Stynes and those around him for a decision as to that. [it's the Stynes factor which makes MFC different in my view]

But with the testing regime ordered by the AFL I doubt that B.C would run any risks.

My sense is that the clubs you mention rejected him for non-football reasons, notably sponsorship. Particularly for C'wood and their problems, that would be huge.

Anyway--we'll see. I understand that the issue is not dead!

[e25 5]

you are addressing the issue as to whether he's clean--I agree--that is critical. If there's a doubt amongst experts, at MFC or anywhere else--forget it!I would rely on Jim Stynes and those around him for a decision as to that. [it's the Stynes factor which makes MFC different in my view]

But with the testing regime ordered by the AFL I doubt that B.C would run any risks.

My sense is that the clubs you mention rejected him for non-football reasons, notably sponsorship. Particularly for C'wood and their problems, that would be huge.

Anyway--we'll see. I understand that the issue is not dead!

Correction: You fail to see that the issue is dead.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Correction: You fail to see that the issue is dead.

no sir! Keep watching

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I would rely on Jim Stynes and those around him for a decision as to that. [it's the Stynes factor which makes MFC different in my view]

Anyway--we'll see. I understand that the issue is not dead!

DB has gone public emphatically saying that we are not chasing Cousins. I would have thought that kills it. Six months ago Stynes sacked a CEO because he went chasing players without foottball department approval. And you are suggesting that Stynes may make a call on Cousins over his Coach? Sure thing.

[H_T 3,049]

I can't believe this thread is still persisting. Cousins has certainly polarised the community. Answer: All over.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,809]

I'm jealous of Richmond.

All that optimism and publicity.

Next ,a major sponsor will jump on board to take part in all the exposure.

Plus....they've picked up a champ.

I hope we didn't have closed minds, and gave the drafting of Cousins a good think. In know a lot of posters to this thread discounted the possibility of recruiting Cousins with hardly any consideration of the pros and cons.

[montasaurus 0]

"His exposure could get a major sponsor on board"

I made the call re sponsor on the 20/11 and copped heaps of flack!

BTW have heard that his body is not up to it and that is why one of the other clubs pulled out.

They had him do a 1hr fitness test that he could not complete. Nothing to do with his history/problems. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm jealous of Richmond.

All that optimism and publicity.

Next ,a major sponsor will jump on board to take part in all the exposure.

Plus....they've picked up a champ.

I hope we didn't have closed minds, and gave the drafting of Cousins a good think. In know a lot of posters to this thread discounted the possibility of recruiting Cousins with hardly any consideration of the pros and cons.

And you considered the cons???

Now why did 4 clubs including one club that did six months DD (and not 3 days) and not proceed to recruit Cousins??

I am not jealous of Richmond. Their Board and management have been made to look fools over this with key central executives having been rolled. This could still blow up in their faces as well.

Now what sought of companies and products will want Cousins?