Whats Bailey doing?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If I were in charge of the club, I would demand that MFC's percentage be at least 70% for Bailey to survive at the end of 2009. 62% is Fitzroy-like and is simply not competetive.

No lets benchmark it to the Consumer Price Index or Melbourne's water storage levels.

[Gouga 569]

Finally, a memo to Melbourne chairman Jim Stynes and coach Dean Bailey. If you want members to come and watch you play, get your team to score. The Demons are ranked second in the competition for uncontested marks. They average 102 a game. But it's a waste of time and energy when the uncontested marks are the results of short kicks that go backwards and sideways.

It is infuriating watching this rubbish. Melbourne is last for inside-50 entries and scores. Why? Because the Demons play "ring a ring a rosey" in their back line and midfield. In case you don't know, Demons, you have to dare to win.

the above one and half paragraphs are from this morning column by Robert Walls, Bailey needs to take note of this and enforce it, the worse part of our year was the pathetic inability to score.

I don't think I'm being biased by saying the succesful teams in the Daniher era 1998, 2000, 2002 were awesome to watch. Hard running, very fast ball movement, high scoring. Probably the most exciting teams in the AFL at those times. We were a massive momentum side.

The standard of football this year was so poor. Very unenjoyable to watch. I've never been so bored at the football. I'd love to see us play more 'Daniher' style.

[CarnTheDees 52]

Which Daniher though?

The one you describe existed up until about 2005. The last couple of years we played exactly like we are playing now.

Bring back the MFC of circa 2004, at least the football was entertaining and the margins won't be any worse than they are now.

[Gouga 569]

Which Daniher though?

The one you describe existed up until about 2005. The last couple of years we played exactly like we are playing now.

Bring back the MFC of circa 2004, at least the football was entertaining and the margins won't be any worse than they are now.

Daniher wasn't good at bringing the younger blokes through in the last couple years. But when we had the calibre of Powell, Farmer, Neitz, White, Woewodin, Yze at their peak we were the best team in the competition to watch.

[Deeoldfart 8,032]

.................. i feel that i need to wait until next season gets into full swing before i can really make an objective opinion about him (Bailey).

Agree with that, but make it the end of next season at the earliest.

[Redleg 40,922]

No lets benchmark it to the Consumer Price Index or Melbourne's water storage levels.

Very funny. I knew you had it in you.

[Redleg 40,922]

Coaching or just Maric's decision making?

Clearly no Coach would instruct a player who is 50 out and running in to goal to turn sideways and kick to a contest.

PS. There was also a team mate 30 out on his own waving his arms for the pass who was ignored. It was just a piece of poor play from Maric.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Which Daniher though?

The one you describe existed up until about 2005. The last couple of years we played exactly like we are playing now.

Bring back the MFC of circa 2004, at least the football was entertaining and the margins won't be any worse than they are now.

Spot on.

There was also the Daniher from about round 1 to 16 and the Daniher from round 17 to finals.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

I don't think I'm being biased by saying the succesful teams in the Daniher era 1998, 2000, 2002 were awesome to watch. Hard running, very fast ball movement, high scoring. Probably the most exciting teams in the AFL at those times. We were a massive momentum side.

The standard of football this year was so poor. Very unenjoyable to watch. I've never been so bored at the football. I'd love to see us play more 'Daniher' style.

I think the style of footy in general is boring now. I watch good players from good teams with the ball on their back line looking desperately for some option open to them so the team can maintain possession. They're hemmed in like chooks and end up getting caught. That fast handballing group of cool defenders - I just don't notice it anymore. I'm no great tactician but if there is no option where your your team has a better than 50% chance of maintaining possession, then I'd do what any 11 yer old would do; kick it as hard as possible in the right direction. Then the coach would drag me but at least it would be more flowing.

[H_T 3,047]

If I were in charge of the club, I would demand that MFC's percentage be at least 70% for Bailey to survive at the end of 2009. 62% is Fitzroy-like and is simply not competetive.

Fitzroy in 1996 was 49%!

No lets benchmark it to the Consumer Price Index or Melbourne's water storage levels.

Very good.

I think the style of footy in general is boring now. I watch good players from good teams with the ball on their back line looking desperately for some option open to them so the team can maintain possession. They're hemmed in like chooks and end up getting caught. That fast handballing group of cool defenders - I just don't notice it anymore. I'm no great tactician but if there is no option where your your team has a better than 50% chance of maintaining possession, then I'd do what any 11 yer old would do; kick it as hard as possible in the right direction. Then the coach would drag me but at least it would be more flowing.

Alot of footy these days is uncontested footy. Defensively alot of teams set up defensive zones and don't man-up until the ball is kicked out. That's why they seem to be hemmed in like chooks and invariably alot of the time the opposition gets caught or coughs up the ball courtesy of a poor kick in or spilt mark.

[Tigers Dayz 2]

Has anyone got any idea who will provide the exeptional run, carry, deliver, that these guys did, that made our came exiting a few years ago?

Nathan Brown, Clint Bizzell, Matthew Whelan, Daniel Ward, Paul Wheatley.

I don't see that pace and endurance at this point. Probably due to lack of experience, skills, targets, pressure. But a fast game is usually a scoring game as the opposition don't get time to zone back.

[Rogue 585]

Has anyone got any idea who will provide the exeptional run, carry, deliver, that these guys did, that made our came exiting a few years ago?

Nathan Brown, Clint Bizzell, Matthew Whelan, Daniel Ward, Paul Wheatley.

Matthew Whelan - Matthew Whelan

Paul Wheatley - Paul Wheatley

Nathan Brown - Chris Johnson

Daniel Ward - Simon Buckley

Clint Bizzell - Colin Garland

[H_T 3,047]

Has anyone got any idea who will provide the exeptional run, carry, deliver, that these guys did, that made our came exiting a few years ago?

Nathan Brown, Clint Bizzell, Matthew Whelan, Daniel Ward, Paul Wheatley.

I don't see that pace and endurance at this point. Probably due to lack of experience, skills, targets, pressure. But a fast game is usually a scoring game as the opposition don't get time to zone back.

Simon Buckley. We definitely need more. The likes of a Blease would be a welcome addition.

I wouldn't say Bizzell provided 'exceptional' run & carry.

[mo64 5,874]

There’s a fab idea.

Most professional coaches and players will tell you that it is about the process and not the result.

This club is years away from focusing on results. You should stay o/s a little longer.

Unfortunately, relocation, merger or oblivion will come sooner.

We'll need an annual Debt Demolition appeal if this keeps up. :angry:

[Guest Chopper]

Has anyone got any idea who will provide the exeptional run, carry, deliver, that these guys did, that made our came exiting a few years ago?

Nathan Brown, Clint Bizzell, Matthew Whelan, Daniel Ward, Paul Wheatley.

I don't see that pace and endurance at this point. Probably due to lack of experience, skills, targets, pressure. But a fast game is usually a scoring game as the opposition don't get time to zone back.

Simon Buckley, Ricky Petterd, Chris Johnson, James Frawley. And we cant forget Matty Whelan and Paul Wheatley who are both still in good form.

[Tigers Dayz 2]

Matthew Whelan - Matthew Whelan

Paul Wheatley - Paul Wheatley

Nathan Brown - Chris Johnson

Daniel Ward - Simon Buckley

Clint Bizzell - Colin Garland

Whelan and Wheatley will gradually drop off. We have a big hole in our 'run and carry' going into next season.

We have Buckley, but he will claim a midfield spot IMO. We need it out of B and HB.

[H_T 3,047]

Finally, a memo to Melbourne chairman Jim Stynes and coach Dean Bailey. If you want members to come and watch you play, get your team to score. The Demons are ranked second in the competition for uncontested marks. They average 102 a game. But it's a waste of time and energy when the uncontested marks are the results of short kicks that go backwards and sideways.

It is infuriating watching this rubbish. Melbourne is last for inside-50 entries and scores. Why? Because the Demons play "ring a ring a rosey" in their back line and midfield. In case you don't know, Demons, you have to dare to win.

the above one and half paragraphs are from this morning column by Robert Walls, Bailey needs to take note of this and enforce it, the worse part of our year was the pathetic inability to score.

That reminds me of a side not all that long ago, Wallsy......ah that's right, Carlton.

[Tigers Dayz 2]

Simon Buckley, Ricky Petterd, Chris Johnson, James Frawley. And we cant forget Matty Whelan and Paul Wheatley who are both still in good form.

I'm not sure if Frawley will make the grade, Chopper. And a few here have suggested CJ as trade bait, although I thought he was terrific late this year. Not sure CJ will povide exceptional run & carry.

[deanox 9,915]

RE the game plan of not kicking to targets.

the problem we have here is that we when do kick to targets we invariably lose possession. this is because a) we dont have genuine marking targets to kick too. and b ) because our skills are poor and we constantly kick the ball over their heads or to the wrong side of the contest. imo players further up the ground do not move enough too present themselves. and that is probably two slightly different plans being played, i'll discuss them in a moment. but of course you shouldnt kick to a contest defensive of the center circle if you can help it. you would be killed on the turnover everytime.

game plan 1 'run and carry' or whatever you want to call it. summed up reasonably by skipper. now the key point i believe he missed is that we are trying to run as a group and allow the free man to kick into the forwards unpressured. this theorectically should result in better disposal quality to the forwards, negating problem a above. the issue we have here is that the plan is new and the players dont get it. often they dont run hard enough to link up (imagine them circling around providing an outside option, sort of like the ball moving across a rugby field), when they do, they often handball an extra player too many. most likely because they are not confident with how to execute the game plan. this extra handball often runs the last player into trouble, who then stuff the ball up either by hand or foot, or results in our attack being stifled, where we end up applying game plan 2. the players need to learn to read when they are the best option to kick, rather than just dishing off an extra handball because that was the game plan. they need to kick, unless the handball will put someone else in a better position to kick. game plan a results in the ball being turned over in the middle due to extra handballs, or the ball coming into the forward line, poorly.

game plan b is what happens once the ball movement is slowed down. this means the forwards have all led out of position waiting for the pass that never came, the cycle then ensures that the mids with the ball now take even longer because they have no one to kick too. what we have been doing to counter this recently is trying to create free space. we havnt been doing a good job.

[ChannellingHopgoodAgro 4]

great post skipper - you're on the money there with out plan IMO

[mo64 5,874]

I did not "conveniently" leave out your point iv - I did not include "dont kick to a contest" because that isnt in the game plan! In regards to kicking to a contest; the only time you as a footballer kicks to a contest is when you have teamates further up the ground who will be able to have more than a 50-50 chance of taking that mark. At the moment with the side we had on Sunday - we cant do that. For this to work we need what is called "marking options" - apart from Miller - we dont have that. The aim over the summer is to more time in to Bate, Newton, etc & get players who are injured back on the park. Also, recruit a key forward (i.e. Watts).

What absolute drivel. At the start of the season when we had Neitz, Robertson and Miller, we still didn't kick to a contest in the forward line. Get it through your head (and Bailey's for that matter), there is nothing wrong with kicking kicking to a 50/50 option in the forward line, if you have a structured forward line with designated crumbers. It is a far more preferable option than handballing sideways, which confuses the leading forwards, and allows the opposition to get numbers behind the ball.

And the biggest chuckle I got is when you suggested that Bailey is promoting attacking football. Aimless running doesn't constitute attacking football.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

there is nothing wrong with kicking kicking to a 50/50 option in the forward line, if you have a structured forward line with designated crumbers. It is a far more preferable option than handballing sideways, which confuses the leading forwards, and allows the opposition to get numbers behind the ball.

Correct.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

RE the game plan of not kicking to targets.

I was the watching the highlights of a game from 2005 (or thereabouts) the other day, I can't remember who Melbourne were playing but the commentators at the time were talking about how good Melbourne's foot skills were. But thing was, almost every kick (that I saw) traveled at least 30 metres and very few if any were sideways.

Not only that, Melbourne's forward line was full of players; Neitz, Robertson, Yze, Davey, Holland, Green and Sylvia for a bit. They were almost unstoppable because they had so many options. Even Holland looked dangerous on the lead because they moved the ball in quickly and if Neitz, Robbo, and Davey were covered then they would just go to Holland or put the ball to the 'hot spot' where a mark was taken or the ball would fall to the ground for the crumbers.

Those were the days.

[Guest skipper3]

Drivel eh??? Do note that yes - we did have that forward line - but, the players were only 6 months into a new coach with a new game plan!!! Do you actually watch the games or what??

I agree with you about kicking to a 50/50 when you have the right structure - but thats the points - STRUCTURE! That means have the right players on the park in the right places!

This does take time - it doesnt happen over night (but it will happen!)

What absolute drivel. At the start of the season when we had Neitz, Robertson and Miller, we still didn't kick to a contest in the forward line. Get it through your head (and Bailey's for that matter), there is nothing wrong with kicking kicking to a 50/50 option in the forward line, if you have a structured forward line with designated crumbers. It is a far more preferable option than handballing sideways, which confuses the leading forwards, and allows the opposition to get numbers behind the ball.

And the biggest chuckle I got is when you suggested that Bailey is promoting attacking football. Aimless running doesn't constitute attacking football.

[astrodee 0]

Reading this thread was a lot like watching Melbourne play.

Cuddles, who it seems might know what's going on, said that it will take DB up to six years to achieve their goals.

In this decade we have seen a young St.Kilda, Hawthorn and Melbourne squad play ring a ring a rosy. And their coaches be vilified by a number of their supporters.

I thought our last effort was overkill, but it wouldn't have been if not for Geelong's inaccuracy in the rain and wind. So we were pathetic - oh woe, the players were just a little dispirited and tired. We were told to expect pain, so accept it.

I said at the start of this season this man has rat-cunning. He managed to stave off Worsfald for the golden spoon.

Now the football department can take their time and select the kids we need to succeed, and hold the ace in the PSD.

All in all, on what I've seen so far - I love him. So do the young players - both my daughter and I know know a number of the players' rellies. The BOYS are slowly turning into men.

Just enjoy the trip. It'll be slow and steady for some time - with downtimes. But then.....

IMHO it will have been worth it.