for a team that has had so many top picks, it is amazing that a player like carazzo that absolutely murders the ball can finish in your top 5 best and fairest!!

Carazzo: Italian for turnover.

Still, give Carlton credit where it's due. They are on a roll. They have close to the best on-ball running brigade in the comp. They will almost certainly (barring injuries) make the finals next year. They will look to select or trade for key backs in up-coming drafts.

They are currently a better prospect than Melbourne.

I just ask..

Many teams have young "guns" coming through...probably at least half have someone(s) more than useful..So not a lot special about us ( in that respect )

More than just Melb can offre a ruck play time..again ..were not unique

I was just playing that little game they make you do on "those " courses etc.

A little role play as it were...."why to go to Melbourne "

We love our club..we think its pretty special, but its in our own way. The problem I think is that to many outsiders or potentials...theres really not a lot to write home about. We're enthusiastic. We think we have potential and should go somewhere but our view is lets be honest rather biased.

But lately..last few years, werve been spending a lot of time looking into the abyss, weve had a lot of unheaval, experienced a lot of ridicule. We hang on by the seat of our pants. In the words of others weve been bashed from pillar to post..and were 16th..down from 14th

13th last year is playing finals

15th seem mecurial by comparison and manage 11th..with prospects

16th are knocking on the eight and playing ok

we seem to be owning the bottom...whether thats true..its what it looks like..

No one expects us to nudge the eight for 3-5 years at best

So is it so surprising that an up and comer..with a bit of talent..and desire to succeed ...might just overlook us ??

I dont think so.

I think the coaches and footy dept stilll have much work cut out for them. I think we need at least some runs on the board before too many players will look upon us favourably.

Even the best salesmen will struggle when all you have is dreams and desire. We may just have to be patient before anyone comes to knock our door down

I don't think we were ever much of a chance. We just can't compete with the other clubs until we show that we have decent prospects in the forseeable future. Money is one thing, but I reckon the biggest thing that got Warnock to Carlton was the fact that they have a genuine chance of finals next year, and a reasonable chance of a premiership in the next 6 years. We don't. Players like Warnock don't want to come to Melbourne, especially when they can earn more money at a club where they will experience more wins.

I just ask..

Many teams have young "guns" coming through...probably at least half have someone(s) more than useful..So not a lot special about us ( in that respect )

More than just Melb can offre a ruck play time..again ..were not unique

I was just playing that little game they make you do on "those " courses etc.

A little role play as it were...."why to go to Melbourne "

We love our club..we think its pretty special, but its in our own way. The problem I think is that to many outsiders or potentials...theres really not a lot to write home about. We're enthusiastic. We think we have potential and should go somewhere but our view is lets be honest rather biased.

But lately..last few years, werve been spending a lot of time looking into the abyss, weve had a lot of unheaval, experienced a lot of ridicule. We hang on by the seat of our pants. In the words of others weve been bashed from pillar to post..and were 16th..down from 14th

13th last year is playing finals

15th seem mecurial by comparison and manage 11th..with prospects

16th are knocking on the eight and playing ok

we seem to be owning the bottom...whether thats true..its what it looks like..

No one expects us to nudge the eight for 3-5 years at best

So is it so surprising that an up and comer..with a bit of talent..and desire to succeed ...might just overlook us ??

I dont think so.

I think the coaches and footy dept stilll have much work cut out for them. I think we need at least some runs on the board before too many players will look upon us favourably.

Even the best salesmen will struggle when all you have is dreams and desire. We may just have to be patient before anyone comes to knock our door down

Good post .... until we change the club culture and start the perform a bit better we'll continue to have this problem.

I think having such a young list will make it a lot easier to bring change

Forget the trades, if we get some decent players along the way its a bonus, but what will really bring us back to the fore will be the development of our young players and draft picks.

It was all very romantic, the thought of Robbie playing with his brother here, I don't think.

I'm not all that upset about not paying $300k/yr for an unproven player. Imagine if he breaks down again, even.

I hope Vlad is diligent, and consistent, in the Carlton salary cap audit.

Roll on national draft. Go Dees footy dept!!!

So is it so surprising that an up and comer..with a bit of talent..and desire to succeed ...might just overlook us ??

I dont think so.

I think the coaches and footy dept stilll have much work cut out for them. I think we need at least some runs on the board before too many players will look upon us favourably.

Lets face it we have been knocked from pillar to post this year. We have been told by the AFL we stand for nothing, finished last, sacked two CEO's, had another reject us, had our Board walk, lost money and ended up $5m in debt, dithered over our new training base ( Olympic Park, Casey ) among other lowlights. What to do?

Raising $3.1m in a month to ease the debt is a great start.

Promoting a closer relationship with the wealthy and powerful MCC is also a positive and who knows where that will end up.

Uniting all of the factions/divisions within the club is another positive.

Having 3 picks inside the top 20 at the Draft is another.

Appointing CS as CEO with his experience should be another.

Adopting a business plan/model that can be successful going forward will be another.

Finding more sponsors will be another.

Trimming the list of players who are not part of our future is another.

Completing a fairly successful trade week will be another ( not expecting a miracle ).

Getting a good player in the PSD is another.

Having given game time to young players like Garland, Maric, Martin, Frawley, Wona, Grimes, Valenti, Buckley, C J etc is another.

Having found a coach who is prepared to develop youth and remain totally focussed is another.

Improving the fitness/injury/strength side of training is another.

Having a home base during summer, instead of being gypsies is another.

Having some luck with injuries and getting our better players on the park next year is another.

Having our supporters talk the club up instead of putting it down is another.

Promoting any positive in the press will be another.

Probably the most important, having the side play a good brand of football next year.

These and many more things are part of improvement and making our club strong on and off the field again. If we can get our act right the Warnocks of this world might pick us instead of others.

PS. If Warnock does go to the Blues I hope he costs them a trade that they regret in years to come. I dislike that club more than any other and wish it 12-14th position on the ladder for the next 20 years.

Isnt what Carlton is offering him the "market price"?

Yes and then we would have to pay above the market price to secure him :wacko:

Yes and then we would have to pay above the market price to secure him :wacko:

Not if Warnock had chosen to come to MFC.

I suspect that was not the case.

You'll work it out.

So what happens if we offer pick 19 to Freo for him? At least it could bump up what Carlton give for him.

So what happens if we offer pick 19 to Freo for him? At least it could bump up what Carlton give for him.

Keeping the bidders to just Carlton and Melbourne: if we keep bettering Carlton's offer, then Freo are duty-bound to accept our offer. If Warnock is still reluctant to come to Melb, he must then put himself into the PSD and put a price on his head that we would be unwilling to pay and hope to slip through to Carlton.

In theory.

While I'm as disappointed as anyone that Warnock has supposedly chosen the Blues, if mainly from a "why not us" view, two things spring to mind to put a positive spin on it. The first is that Warnock is still an unproven commodity in terms of the contract he would command, very over inflated on performances to date, when in reality our financial situation does not justify the outlay when bringing down our TPP to 92%. He is a likely prospect, but no more. He may be a champion, he may be another Peter Street.

The second is that we can now continue to develop from the ground up, and nurture a Jake Spencer and maybe another unknown teenage beanpole to become at least what Warnock is now and then develop further again within a side that will be performing much better than it is now. These things are cyclical and I remember thinking at the time that neither Hawthorn or Carlton would ever climb out of the holes they were then in.

Carlton is likely to be taking Warnock, when at a similar stage to where Geelong was at when they took Brad Ottens. When we eventually move up the ladder - and it will happen, we will begin to attract players to us as they will see the signs of September action. At the moment, with Judd last year and Warnock this year, we don't present in this way and we need to accept that. Anyone coming to us as Judd and Warnock both could have, would be a bonus rather than an expectation. And at what cost to our coffers and our list management direction? We must not deviate and choose those who don't fit on either front.

I would rather reward performing and developing players from a 92% TPP base moving forward, than overpay an import on not much more than raw potential. Hawthorn started way back on $92% TPP when they bottomed out which gave them scope for paying more as their list developed. We need to do the same. They got rid of dead wood and we are now doing the same. From memory, they did not bring in and overpay anyone that deviated from their long term strategy. Again, we need to do that too.

Early and wise draft picks is the only way for us at the moment, with the continuing patience and satisfaction, like proud parents, of watching them grow. Hopefully the results of this will also mirror those of the Hawks.

And of course, with the anticipation of a better pre-season under a post honeymoon period coach with a developing game plan, some better luck with injuries, two exciting new premises under development, an adventurous, responsible, yet proactive board with AFL and MCC support, reducing to nil debt (early signs are fantastic), I say again - our turn will come.

A bit of hope and momentum can be contagious - and alot can take you anywhere!

Hope to hell Freo demand top compensation and make them pay. don't reckon pick 24 will get them signing him over.

Indeed. I hope they screw Carlton into the ground. This will snow ball and may even entice Kerr to Carlton.

MEMO: WAKE UP AFL AND SMELL THE ROSES! SOMETHING STINKS!! SEND MORE INVESTIGATORS TO OPTUS OVAL. PRATT's PALACE AND VISY.

To those who want to try and offer more than Carltank I am not so sure.

I don't want to pay 1.3m over 3 years to an unproven, albeit promising, beanpole ruckman.

I don't want to go after someone who has a brother playing for us and yet still seems reticent to play for us.

I don't want to trade a pick in the top 30 for him.

Get him in PSD if it breaks down but let's get the right blokes for the right deals.

Ahhh do you think the guy with the usename Jack Watts could change his photo.

I believe i have had that photo as my avitar for a couple of months now.

And i didn't think you could use a footballers name as a username if i am correct.

There are enough pix of Jack Watts to go around. I agree with Haydo. JW should change his avatar.

If he doesn't then we simply draft Naitanui ahead of him!

In 12 mths time if Warnock is on 300K plus per year what are Carlton going to pay there No1 Ruckman when he comes out of contract, Matty Kruz must be saying here comes 400K+ as a 20yo. Getting players is one thing keeping them together by paying a player on potential is dangerous. Cain Akland must enjoy being the highest paid VFL player in fact he would make more then the whole Franston team from Footy.

I think there is cause to be surprised at Warnock's decision. The number one ruck factor is normally a carrot for every ruckman worth his salt. Simmons didn't leave Melbourne for money, he wanted to pursue his dream of being a top flight AFL ruckman, of an opportunity to play, pure and simple. Same as Jolly. Freo had never appeared in a final when Snake went over there. I don't know Robbie Warnock, and I'm not going to judge him based on him choosing one team over another. It does speak volumes about what he wants to achieve as an AFL ruckman though. Very little it would seem.

I think there is cause to be surprised at Warnock's decision. The number one ruck factor is normally a carrot for every ruckman worth his salt. Simmons didn't leave Melbourne for money, he wanted to pursue his dream of being a top flight AFL ruckman, of an opportunity to play, pure and simple. Same as Jolly. Freo had never appeared in a final when Snake went over there. I don't know Robbie Warnock, and I'm not going to judge him based on him choosing one team over another. It does speak volumes about what he wants to achieve as an AFL ruckman though. Very little it would seem.

I would have thought Warnock would be Carlton's number 1 ruckman and Kruezer would spend most of his time at CHF, like he did for parts of games this season.

Its not like they've got a better option for that position... brad fisher..? Waite belongs in the backline.

I would have thought Warnock would be Carlton's number 1 ruckman and Kruezer would spend most of his time at CHF, like he did for parts of games this season.

Its not like they've got a better option for that position... brad fisher..? Waite belongs in the backline.

Either way, he's going to be competing with Kruezer and Hampson for number 1 ruck duties for the rest of his career. Who is his competition at Melbourne? PJ, Jamar and Meesen! It's a money call, coupled with our woeful image at the moment.

Either way, he's going to be competing with Kruezer and Hampson for number 1 ruck duties for the rest of his career. Who is his competition at Melbourne? PJ, Jamar and Meesen! It's a money call, coupled with our woeful image at the moment.

he has Hampson covered. Kreuzer will predominantly play up forward, giving him 1st crack at ruck.

Either way, he's going to be competing with Kruezer and Hampson for number 1 ruck duties for the rest of his career. Who is his competition at Melbourne? PJ, Jamar and Meesen! It's a money call, coupled with our woeful image at the moment.

Would that mean that Cloke and Ackland are for the chop?

Does anyone have an opinion on Hampson, is he worth pursuing given that his club has now seemingly bypassed him?

Either way, he's going to be competing with Kruezer and Hampson for number 1 ruck duties for the rest of his career. Who is his competition at Melbourne? PJ, Jamar and Meesen! It's a money call, coupled with our woeful image at the moment.

Agree with that.

Would that mean that Cloke and Ackland are for the chop?

Does anyone have an opinion on Hampson, is he worth pursuing given that his club has now seemingly bypassed him?

Yes. Even if they went for White in the PSD (which they are unlikely to do now).

Does anyone have an opinion on Hampson, is he worth pursuing given that his club has now seemingly bypassed him?

I don't think Hampsons being bypassed. This is how i would've thought Carlton pitched it.

Robbie Wargock and Hampson to share the ruck duties. Kruger plays a KPP role and pinch hits ruck.

Hampson gets experience and hopefully becomes a ready made ruckman in two years. they then ship him off home to the GC17 for their top ten even top 5 pick and still be strong in the ruck with Wargock and Kruger.

To those who want to try and offer more than Carltank I am not so sure.

I don't want to pay 1.3m over 3 years to an unproven, albeit promising, beanpole ruckman.

I don't want to go after someone who has a brother playing for us and yet still seems reticent to play for us.

I don't want to trade a pick in the top 30 for him.

Get him in PSD if it breaks down but let's get the right blokes for the right deals.

Spot on! Would have been nice to get him, but not at the apparent asking price (both $s and draft picks). A bit too risky at the potential price.

Spot on! Would have been nice to get him, but not at the apparent asking price (both $s and draft picks). A bit too risky at the potential price.

Agreed. At that astronomical cost I would like to think we could do a lot better. There are a few young ruckmen avaiable in the draft who inspire me as much as Warnock, even young Spencer on our rookie list shows more strength and aggression.

Its a silly comparison that lacks vision.

Probably, but people still brought up PJ and the Russian as comparisons. The fact remains that Warnock has never done anything to earn a contract entitling him to $400k for four years. Good luck to him I say, his management has done brilliantly and they've used his connection with Matthew and the others at Melbourne perfectly to draw out the best possible offer. If I was a 22 year old spindly tall ruckman with 21 games under my belt and I got what the Blues are alleged to have offered, I would be giggling all the way across the Nullarbor.

Of course, if Carlton are paying that sort of coin, they can't honestly expect to get him with draft pick # 24 and they can't afford to let him slip into the PSD.

Fun and games coming up!