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Would be funny if Watts and Morton come down and they ask if anyone on here hangs sh!t on them. We would all collectively shake our heads like little kids and then say it's not us it's Range Rover.

We're going to absolutely demolish them. Norm Smith is back. The G is ours. Every other club can G&GF.

Good bye Riv. A montage for the great man.. Rivers disagreeing with our Assistant Coach Leigh Brown Our Leadership Group haha.. couldn't help myself.. We will miss you Riv!

Jack <mumbles> FitzGimeWatRove

Usually when Melbourne players leave for another club I couldn't care less if they did their knee in three places, but I wish Rivers all the best. One of my favourites during his career.

Ahh well I guess It's time for a name change

"Mummy! Greg Denham called us Bears again!" "What have I told you?" "To ignore him." "That's right. He only teases you to get a response. That way, he gains attention and feels relevant. It should only make you angry if you feel there is some truth in what he says." Do not feed the troll, people. Walk away.

Well put Ron, even if he doesn't win us a flag he's shaken the [censored] out of the club and rid us of anyone that doesn't want to play hard, tough, football. All the creeps on radio and television have had a crack without really having a clue what processes Neeld was putting in place and even though they'll never admit it, they will all look stupid. Mark has restored pride in the club and that's something I thought I'd never see again.

Good to hear. Without wishing to sound trite, once we'd secured Hogan and Viney in the second round this trade period was always going to be a monumental success from my point of view. Posters here and everywhere often talk about young players that are yet to play a game as "unproven", but in the main the real quality "unproven" kids stand out. There will always be a Tambling or Morton, but the top 5 also delivers Riewoldt, Judd, Murphy, Buddy, Pendlebury, Cotchin, Griffen, Thomas, etc. Not to mention top 10 - Selwood, Rich, Bartel, ... I stuffed up majorly when it came to Watts. I watched him a few times as a junior and he never seemed to do much, but what he did was all class. Class that was in a class of its own for a tall. I became intoxicated with his upside. He moved beautifully, he could take a nice mark, he made really good decisions and his kicking skills were sublime. I'd grown up watching talls butcher the ball by foot. When one factored in his draft camp, which highlighted his pace, agility,etc. this 196cm forward was the bees knees. The only knock on him that I'd seen was that he wasn't great one-on-one in a strength contest with a decent backman. He didn't outmark them and couldn't push them off the ball. In fact, it was the other way around. But I pushed that to one side, because once his body developed it was obvious he'd establish that side of his game. I won't fast forward and rehash hundreds of my posts that elaborate on my disappointments regarding Watts, but when I saw him not committing his body in aerial contests for the Scorpions in his first year, as well as pick and choose his marking contests the alarm bells started ringing. I drove home one day with a sick pit in my stomach. I thought maybe it was an aberration. But it wasn't. He didn't contest physically, he noticeably avoided contests and the same theme happened every time I watched him at any level year after year. And for interstate supporters, I acknowledge that you don't always notice it on tv. It's the reason he's now a "plus one" backman and the forward-line is presently shelved. I don't come down hard on Watts for the sake of it. But don't fall into the trap of doubting Hogan because of Watts' failings. Hogan is aggressive, Hogan loves physical contact, Hogan has courage in aerial contests, Hogan is a strong mark, Hogan weighs more than Tom Hawkins did when he was first drafted despite being 2cm smaller and younger. Does anyone remember the lump of a lad Hawkins was for Vic Metro ? Hogan weighs 97kg compared to Joe Daniher, who is 211cm and weighs 89kg. Hogan is also fast for a key forward. James Frawley ran 2.98 seconds for the 20 metre sprint at his DC and was lauded for his pace - especially as a tall, Hogan ran 3.02, which shows there's nothing in it, even though Hogan is taller and weighs more as a 17 year old than Frawley does now. And this isn't some mythical pressure on Hogan, it's just stating facts. And clearly Melbourne agrees to have made the investment it has. Put simply, Hogan is the antithesis of Watts when it comes to key forwards. Add the undeniable will and sheer determination of Viney, who virtually any footy watcher says is the hardest junior they've seen - with pace, skills, a great sidestep, quality leadership, and this could never be considered anything but a good draft. No matter what else happened. Two potential stars. And not your garden variety star. And the Gods will surely think it's about time ? Dawes, and others, ice the cake. I really like the structure this team is going to have next year. Importantly it gives the players a hell of a lot to buy into. And that's half the battle.

I heard from someone at the club today that they were targeting Jesse Hogan from 6 months ago and were wrapt to see GwS wanting to accept their trade. Then they couldn't believe they got another crack at Dawes after they hard tried and really wanted him last year. They were wrapt Filth mucked him around and let him fall in our laps. This has all been a very well planned attack to close the gaps on our list!

Yep.....Lets get in a unproven 18 year old and trade away a top ten in our b&f and a player that is in his third year and looks to be a long term player for us.......Do you really think about the propersitions you put up?????......

Nathan Carroll

What I believe the introduction of Dawes will lead to is the rise of Jack Fitzpatrick. A 200cm running machine who improved out of sight this year at Casey and kicked 2 in the last game of the year at Subi. His body is getting bigger and as the 3rd tall in the forward 50, with the 3rd best tall defender on him, he COULD turn into a devastating weapon. Just a thought

We are building our list the way it should have been under Bailey/Daniher etc but never was. If you look at Gold Coast and GWS they have fallen for the same trap as we did and have recruited mainly kids who, whilst being good players, don't have the maturity to get you in to and win finals. I'm happy that we didn't just go out and pick another 6 or so 18yo kids who would probably turn out to be ok but not great because they wouldn't have any one to lead them. I've never been a fan of Joel Mac but I'll give him one thing, when he came to Melbourne he was probably the hardest "at the ball player" we had and he was just an ordinary player at Brisbane. It just showed me that our team was made up of kids and some soft Senior players, we were going nowhere but hopefully now we will. Neeld is righting the ship, adding experience and toughness in to a side that has lacked it for years.

To say that we have had a disappointing season under Mark Neeld would be a gross understatement. MFC fans anticipated huge improvement on 2011 but were hugely disillusioned. I have nothing but praise for the manner in which Mark Neeld and the football department have reacted to the disaster that has been MFC this year. Enticing 'good' players to our club has been an almost impossible task these past couple of years. It would seem that things have changed. Neeld has set standards from which he has not deviated. He knows exactly what needs to be done to transform us to a tough and competitive team. By the end of next week we could well have several experienced players from other clubs who will become positive role models for our youngsters on and off the field. Neeld's has been a polished performance and I, for one, acknowledge his huge efforts. I'm excited!

This may be a bit early but I want to thank the Melbourne Football club for showing that Aggression is still part of our Club I have been a supporter for a long long time now and I cannot remember a time in recent history where I have been impressed by the way the MFC has approached a trade period such as this with a obvious plan and the aggression and determination to go after what they want the way they have this time around .in this draft period Its my belief that we may actually be beggining to make some progress. At least I now I feel I have something to look forward to again and I believe our time frame has been reduced as a result of this recruitment as to us becoming a real contender . It will still take some time but as a supporter at least for now I can say I am happy to see the way we are heading and my faith in Neeld and the whole MFC team has been reinvigorated. Yes we still have to perform on the field but now I believe we have the players to form the structure needed to do just that and the trade period still isnt over . Maybe too early to say happy days are here again but the clouds are certainly clearing

I'm curious as to why Pedersen's stocks are so high. I've not got FOXTEL so I see few North games. Even if I did, I'd rarely have had the chance to see him and as such know nothing about him. While North have had an improved season, it has hardly been Dench & Glendinning keeping him out of their backline. Nor are there a Carey & Longmire duo in his way up forward. He wasn't used as their 2nd ruck and at 193 cm, unless he jumps like Howe I'm not surprised What has he done to generate such enthusiasm ? What makes him better option than a Sellar, a Martin or even a (shudder) Dunn ? I'm not getting it.

Playing port round 1 is not good. If we win which we should I will drink too much and start running my mouth stating we are a top 8 certainty. If we lose I will drink too much and claim the year is over already.

Relax! We've got this. lol

I would be shocked if Sellar was delisted. I thought he played pretty well this year and was versatile, playing in a number of positions. He was much better than I thought he would be.

NO we should'nt.

I think we all felt that when McLean left that he could see the writing on the wall and he had no future but I think we all got ahead of ourselves, let's hope we haven't this time. Riv is one of our better players and the last remaining senior player, apart from Flash and he may not even be able to play next year. I'm disappointed he's decided to leave and I don't think it's been all his decision, I have a feeling that he wasn't encouraged to stay. Anyway hope he has a few good years down there and wants to be a part of our club again after he retires.

MFC vs Cats Mark Neeld: Alright Clarke/Dawes, whoever has Rivers on them make sure you go to the goal square and go 1 on 1

We've already recruited 2 for the role he played for the 2nd half of last season. Dawes for now and Hogan for the future. He's role as a defender was already covered which is why he moved forward. Good player for us, but wouldn't be critical for our next 5 years. FA is ideal for situations like this.

MFC 2013 may as well be new club! No Green, Rivers, Moloney - talk about culture changer.

He's 24. FF for 6+ years.

Trenners is the key Will he be the dynamic attacking midfielder he first promised to be - or the slowish defensive player he was last year? Viney, Pick 4, Evans Taggart and co may be part of an elite midfield group going forward - but I'm not sure we can realistically expect them to play key roles next year. I have seen Viney play - and he will make an impact from day 1 - but whether he can do it week in /week out in his first year is problematical. He is an extraordinarily physical player - and his young body will take time to get used to bumping into mature bodies. Whether or not Trenners is able to lift will be pivotal to the performance of our midfield next year [ Viney has exams until mid November. I wonder if he'll join his mates on schoollies after that]

I think many people under rate Evans. I believe if he gets his body right he could become a A class AFL Midfielder. I have watched many of the games and he is such a hard player to actually fault. He is much better then many of our current first 22 mids when he is fit and he isn't scared to go forward and kick a goal. The kid has much more class in his game then most of our other mids.

Without being too harsh - crap - it is UP TO GYSBERTS to realise his potential.

For all of his faults, I too would like to see if the penny can drop with this guy. Build a body to match his height, build endurance to match AFL footy, and develop a hunger to be the best he can be, and there's definitely a quality player waiting to emerge despite some shortcomings in his game.

"old" brand tarnished

Bummer. Sad to see him go and was hoping he would stay. Personally, I don't wish him the best and I hope the Cats start sliding out of the 8, and he lives to regret not playing out his career at the Dees.

Geelong are on the way out of the 8. Im upset he left, should have hung around

As much as I admired his efforts, this is probably the right decision for all concerned. Geelong happy because Rivers replaces Scarlett; Rivers happy because he has a chance to play finals football; Melbourne happy because he's at the wrong end of his career for the latest rebuild plus a compensation pick. Well played everyone.

All down to what you can get. Trade any and all is fine by me

I called in last week and asked him why he hates Melbourne so much, his response was along the line he hates incompetence not Melbourne. I said no mate even if melb won 3 games in a row you would put a negative spin on it, response no,no I wouldn't! I can't wait until we win 3 in a row and call him back!

Surely it all depends on what value we can get for them, and given that all three have live contracts (I think), whether they are prepared to be traded. Personally I'm not fussed either way, but perhaps Gysberts may warrant another year more than the other two, in the hope that he can have a bit more luck injury-wise, and get the other parts of his act together.

Brett Lovett

Anyone that thinks Gys deserves a 1st round pick in exchange isn't seeing how value is determined at market. At the draft kids are picked nearly exclusively on potential. They will have exhibited the various skills and abilities over their junior journeys and arrive at combines and are ranked by those whose job it is. Are they drafted on what they can do or what the recruiters think they may do once brought into the AFL system ? It has to be the latter almost exclusively as they are almost unaminously untried at a senior level. One word sums it up, POTENTIAL. They are given "mystic" point values for potential. This value holds sway whilst all their actual proess is essentially hidden. This adds to the sometime lotto effect of the draft. Some kids come on, some don't. Valuable draft picks are essentially pegged to educated guessing. Once a kid enters the system and is unwrapped al is laid bare. The mystic value disappears and we are then able to see the real , raw recruit for what he is. After a little time a revaluation will occur as matter of course. A comparison of what the recruiters estimated will be put against what IS. His mystic value was pick 11 , his real value at trade is effectively now that plus a round, yes folks he's worth no more than a mid second at very best. He's been overtaken in the potential valuations by the new kids. We now KNOW what he's done. All current values are/will be based on that. We have a number of kids showing more. I'd take anyone's second rounder and roll the dice again.

Absolutely does my head in- posters with zero clue pot an assistant coach with no more insight than the midfield is not performing. Posters here see the end result and bam - whack the coach. You cant pull your socks up if you arent wearing any. Lay blame squarely where it should be laid - at the feet of underperforming footballers not assistant coaches.(let someone who knows, the senior coach, make the assessment on his assistants)

Throw Blease, Sylvia, Watts and Dunn into that group as well. Neeld has sorted out the committed from the lazy and has worked out what he needs. 2013 will be the year of progression and development with at least 6-10 wins.

Who's still bagging the apparent lack of process that saw Mark Neeld appointed as our head coach this time last year?! Come out you bloody dweebs - you know who you are. Ms Wilson, you're one. And where are our 'On The Couch' buddies? Anti intellectual, grubby, gutter journalism at its best. Disgraceful stuff. Personally I cannot believe Fast Eddie's not getting absolutely slammed at the moment. Malthouse, Neeld and Watters in one season. Surely a shocking result for that club. That said, I feel indebted to Monsieur Maguire. His ineptitude gifted us Mark Neeld, and he is just what this club needed at that very moment. Thank you Melbourne FC. Thank you even more Collingwood FC. And thanks also for the wholly unreasonable criticism of Neeld for much of 2012 - it will just make it easier to demonstrate the influence he had on turning this joint around in the years to come. FWIW this club is back in business.

Somewhere is the corner of a darkened room, Jeff White is pulling his hair out.

Every single year I hear Melbourne fans, me included, jumping up and down around this time of year. Well, forgive me, but I am not congratulating anyone until I see results on the field this time around. I am not saying I think they have stuffed up, or that Neeld is no good, but I have seen these sort of posts every year for the last few.

Is this Demonland or Punt Road End?? You don't win games in October. Nobody fears us, nor should they. Nor should it matter. and we most certainly aren't back. we've been dug out of the rubble, taken to the hospital and out of ICU. still on long way to go to full health. Lets win some games first and all the periphery stuff will fall into place.

Hi Nudge Firstly thanks for your "inside info posts" very enjoyable, of course anyone would be naive to think many or most trades and delistings would come to fruition. as like all clubs the mfc would have a plan of attack and see what transpires. I for one (and probably speak for majority demonlanders) would be dissapointed if you no longer felt you wanted to contribute to this forum.

Macdonald isn't a player blessed with great skills or ability to read the play, but he gives everything he's got and more whenever he's on the field. He's the type of player that we need to set an example for the younger ones coming through. I don't think he'll be part of our next premiership team, but I think that at the moment he's an important player for us.

I actually think that this is a great sign for Neeld. If all the potential trades go through and Dawes, Pederson, Viney, Pick 4, Ray and Byrnes run out for the red and blue there will be very few excuses for the type of performance we saw this year. Bailey constantly had his recruiting team go it about it in a way that gave him a youth and inexperience excuse, we need KPF, we draft Watts and Cook and preach patience. We need mids, diddo Scully et al. Neeld took a year to give the whole list a chance to prove why they should stay. Now he's sorting the wheat from the chaff and will stand by his results. Its a brave approach, its a daring approach, but overall I think its a hugely positive move for a club that has been playing it so safe for so long. As for standards, he has doubled the FD, increased training loads, attracted one of the best fitness guys going around in David Misson who has put the club through the hardest pre-season in memory and set clear goals for every player that must be reached, no excuses. Has refused to play players on reputation and has dropped several who would not have been dropped under Bailey, providing positive results for Watts, Blease and a few others, and sorting out which of our players were total sooks for those that couldn't handle it. He hasn't told us as supporters that success is just going to happen on the back of good draft picks, he has basically attacked everything that came before him in terms of elite performance in all facets of the club and he is putting himself in a position where he has backed himself completely and will live or die by it very early in his coaching tenure, rather than trying to preach in a way that keeps his job. He has also taken the most agressive approach to a trade period that our club has taken in a very long time in response to poor performance this year. Pretty good if you ask me. Lets see if it works before we bag him out.

I had the pleasure of having a long chat with Jared at a function prior to the Darwin game. A delighful down to earth bloke. While he was not specific about his own plans two things were clear. 1. He is a commited demon. 2. He talked about the concerns of a player who is approching the big 30 and wants to maximise his opportunities before it is all over career wise. My overall impression was that he dearly wanted to stay at Melbourne but that ultimately he had to consider his long term future. IMO he has been a courageous and loyal servant of the club. I hope we we do what it takes to retain him.