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massive issue in my opinion, shows exactly where the clubs culture is at in a nutshell.

Had a cushy job at a successful club. Could have stayed there for a few more years. Could have chosen an easier option like Adelaide or St Kilda but no he came to the basket case that was/is the MFC and has staked his entire fledgling coaching career on turning around the Titanic. He's been prepared to put self-satisfied noses out of joint, sack ineffectual leaders, drop soft no. 1 draft picks and most importantly completely dismantle a useless game plan that would have seen us fold under the first sign of trouble in a final. And he's prepared to get flogged week-in week-out, enduring the inevitable calls for his sacking by supporters fearful of change, in order to get the job done. Hard as f..!k this bloke and I for one stand up and applaud him for having the cojones to put his own future in the game on the line in order to turn this joint into what for most of the past 47 years it has only ever been masquerading as ... and that's a football club. I'm backing him in come hell or high water.

I don't care about Scully's giant leaps forward, I just care about him falling backward on the end of Tappy's shoulder. If Scully gets off the ground unassisted when they play us I'll be ashamed of the whole team.

What a load of rubbish, his finest moment was signing a $6 million contract.

True, but at least pretend to care by shaking hands and walking off the ground instead of standing around chatting about which club they'll be meeting up at later.

No matter what Scully does from this point forward, he has no legacy. Instead of embracing true greatnes, and leading a club, he chose an easy option for money, and also probably listened to the likes of sheedy tell him he will never win or get any where at a club like ours. It is why no matter what LeBron does, he will never be Jordan. Some sportsman have true greatness, while others take the easy option. We are still waiting for our great one(or few).

Yep I will never forgive myself for starting that thread. Boy that one bit me in the backside. Am I in for a chance of dumbest thread of the year?

Thread title of the year is still ..."Relax ... We've Got This"

Interesting thoughts but i disagree. I think our on field performace has alot to do with players overthinking the game - spending too much time thinking about where they should run or kick the ball according to Neelds game plan, rather than backing their own ability and lnstincts . I hate the term "game plan", and ever since Need has come in the club has used it to death - i fear that alot of the side have been bamboozled/overwelmed by all of the new structures and plans and have forgot that they are listed at an AFL club becasue they are good footy players - they've lost the confidence in their own instincts and abilities to just get out there and play footy! The extent of the game plan under dean bailey was "take the game on" (as far as i could tell), but maybe it wasnt such a bad mantra for the blokes.

I think everyone's expectations were higher, including the coach. My bleating about it isn't going to change anything, so I try and analyse what's going wrong. I want to understand what's happening and why it's happening to make sense of it. Once I make sense of it I'll be in a better position to judge how long it will take to improve, but it also helps me to evaluate the coach. If not right away certainly in time. If you don't know what's happening before you it's hard to have an educated opinion on such matters. One aspect of his coaching that I don't like is the tagging roles. Magner started really well, but is now tagging, Trengove is now doing a lot of tagging. What I liked about Trengove was his hunting of the ball and aggression. He played instinctively. But he now reacts rather than initiates and I don't like it. I like McKenzie tagging, because it suits him and he's not great with the ball in his hands, but not the other two. There's a fine line between knowing your role and being accountable defensively and losing your natural instincts to win the ball. Right now, in my opinion, Neeld has the balance wrong. And it's another reason why we're performing badly.

I'm not taking sides Macca, but I'm just wondering what supporters think our game-plan is. I was talking to my despairing older Brother earlier today and he's just about had a gutful. He's been as loyal as any supporter over the last 40 years. He'd catch a train down to Kardinia Park as a 14 year old in the 70's by himself when we were sh*t. He'll stay loyal, but his resolve is being tested. He thinks our game-plan must be to grab the ball and kick it 40 metres down the boundary line; and you can't blame him, because that's what we invariably do. But I explained that the long kick down the boundary is our last resort. It's our 'get out of jail' card. Goals in the modern game come from turnovers and it's far easier to defend a turnover if it's close to the boundary. If you turn the ball over near the corridor you're invariably punished. So Neeld's/Malthouse's theory is sound. Get the ball forward, neutralise the next contest and start again. The problem is we're doing it far too often because we're not having nearly enough run, carry, and spread. The players aren't trusting each other. They're not trusting each other to win a 50/50 contest, so in turn they get sucked back into the contest. Have you noticed that we often have more numbers around a stoppage, but the opposition have more positioned outside ? We either win the ball and handball to a teammate under pressure, get a quick kick along the boundary, lose possession, or create another ball-up. When the opposition get hands on it they flick it backwards 10-15 metres, or wide and they're off. And we start chasing tail, while their forward half opens up. We need to stop over committing to stoppages and have our own outriders ready to create and run, but this is hard when you don't have faith in your teammate to win the contest. This is why we are diabolical when it comes to uncontested possessions. Neeld doesn't want to play like this. He wants the players to structure up well and be bold with their run and options. His game-plan is so foreign to Bailey's it's proving to be hard yards. I'm no Neeld apologist and right now he has to carry the can for not being able to get his players to implement the plan well enough. Afterall, he'll be happy to take the plaudits if they come his way, so he can't complain about the brick bats now. Everyone is accountable. The reason I'm not as gloomy as some is that I know the talent on the list isn't as dire as it appears. I hate the saying that a team is "playing above themselves" as physics tells me it's not possible, but I understand that some teams seem to eke out just about every ounce of their ability. However, those teams usually fail to win the holy grail. They're usually found wanting when it matters most and their lack of class catches up with them. Conversely, we're playing well beneath our true potential, which is why my wrists remain scar free. I still have faith in the quality of the list. I expect to see improvement and don't want any spin, because I feel I understand where we're at. But Neeld has to sell his message to the players and on the surface they're not buying in. Morale is low, especially amongst the older players, but with more understanding of what's required I do expect things to get better.

Don't worry about fs/draft tactics guys,the club will have our best brains working on it Hey, wait a minute........ummmmmm.........scratch that carry on with suggestions, guys

I agree Macca By any measure to be last after seven rounds with an average loosing margin of 8+ goals Is a bad result no matter who is at fault. I did not expect to be 7 - 0 but I hoped we could have won a couple of games by now and that we could be competitive against most of the teams we have played. Not sure how long as members we are supposed to keep coping seasons like the last five before we are allowed to complain. I say enough is enough [censored] loud and clear. Can it make us worse? I saw on replay Our team out on the ground well after the Hawks game all smiles and congratulating the hawks on a great game. Now that really pisses me off. Shake their hand and get off the ground. Does not appear there is much hurt in the Dees after another belting. If the boot had been on the other foot would the Hawks be all smiles? No they would be inside imediately planning the next encounter.

It's amazing that in round 7, 2011 we beat Adelaide by 96 points at the MCG. Moloney got 3 votes in this one. Now the bloke has the sooks. Sylvia kicked 4 goals V Crows. Now he can't be arsed doing anything. Petterd also kicked 4 goals and looked super dangerous and dynamic. Now he doesn't look AFL standard. All 3 could and should (bar maybe Moloney) be dropped this week. All 3 are supposed to be in our top 10 players. Something seriously stinks at this club.

Good post 'Hardnut' I fail to see why Neeld has "put aside" the attacking element of our game whilst we're supposedly learning the defensive aspect . Couldn't he have left it in ? From day 1 ? Does he think he can just add it in later like it's some sort of "tap" that you turn on and off . We should be playing a more "total" game , rather than just one aspect . From day 1 . We may not have been very good at it but at least we'd be learning on the job and practising a more "total" game . If it's good enough for both Essendon and Adelaide to have lot's of aspects of their game plans up and running , why not our team ? This is not primary school where you learn one thing at a time . It's footy , and a team needs to practice all aspects of the game , all at once , to improve .

Not willing? Rather it's that the daring run and carry isn't the gameplan.

Worst post I have ever read on this forum.

I'll go absolutely spaz if we lose full stop. And I expect the other 26 people who are there to do the same.

maybe jack heard this joke; Three old WAGs are in the toilet at the brownlow discussing their relationships. Michael Voss' wife pipes up , “Let me tell you our sex life is great! It's like one premiership after another.” Mark Bickleys wife replied, “Mine is absolutely fantastic too... It's like the back-to-back victories of '97 and ’98.” They then look at their friend, who hasn’t yet said a thing and she starts crying... "Whats wrong" they ask? “Well,” she says, “my husband is Luke Darcy and all he does is sit on the end of the bed and tell me how good it will be next year.”

The guy is a bit of flake. To keep making veiled comments on the culture of our club is his way to justify his decision to play for the money. He's a kid, how would he know about the culture of us vs. others? Good luck to him. If he doesn't reach his potential in a hurry the footy world will turn on him fast. That's a lot of pressure that I'm glad isn't on him as a Demon.

true, too many passive, retiring types in the Dees for too long. Far too little mongrel. And you cant just bring in and manufacture mongrel - we tried that with Phil Read and Byron Pickett. Its more about the mindset. If tyou have hard, uncomprimising leaders it sets the standard for the younger players.

We have a shot in this game believe it or not. But jamar needs to tap to advantage not just randomly.

Being in the mix for finals....Bring that on. It is a feeling i have forgotten.

I don't think the players are enjoying their footy at the moment no matter what they get paid, everyone plays footy because they love playing.......Are we so confused and befuddled and it looks like we have no clue how to play anymore ??.....So many zones,presses,kick it long to the boundry....Instructions.......I'm confused sitting in the stands....can't imagine what the players feel....Maybe just let them play and enjoy playing....Win ,lose or draw.....I reckon we couldn't do any worse....The KISS principle(Keep it simple stupid)

Dee-luded DB Told us in 2008 we had to have a complete rebuild and that our players and game plan were crap. He was just as honest ( if that is the word). So lets not make out this is the first time we have heard that things have to change and that Neeld is the first honest person to coach the Dees. I have no idea if he is a good coach at this point. We are putting up such bad performances how the hell could you tell. What I see is a large number of our players have never played so consistantly bad. Not sure what that means but it is not a good look for a new coach at this point.

I know I'll be absolutely smashed by everyone for this post but here goes: If at the end of the year it is GWS or GCS in 18th and MFC 17th we sit down with Todd and Jack Viney in the weeks leading up to the bidding and say – “We are getting Jack with our second rounder or not at all, we simply must do this due to the current state of our list, it is vital to the clubs future”. Then we pay out the remaining years on Jack contract (2 years), produce documentation to say it has been paid out. Have everyone involved in the recruiting department, CEO, Coach etc. to sign a sworn affidavit addressed to GWS saying – “we’ve paid out Jack Viney’s contract and we absolutely promise you via this signed guarantee that we will not be drafting Jack with our pick 2.” In effect we are basically saying to GWS “We know Viney isn’t worth pick 1 and you know he isn’t worth pick 1 so quit trying to screw us. If you want him he is yours and we will take the true #1”. In the lead-up to this we air “rumours” etc through our contacts in the media Schwarz/Lyon etc. that Viney would only ever sign a 2 year deal and would return to Melbourne immediately afterwards, he would be absolutely gutted if a team like GWS picked him up purely to just screw him and us over and that he would take great pleasure in inflicting as much pain as possible on all the young recruits etc etc. Melbourne say “We think we’d be a great chance to pick him up in subsequent years once his contract with GWS is up”. In poker the player who bluffs first usually wins the pot so I reckon we get in first and make them make the decision rather than them just making us pay up. So GWS/GCS can either take the best player in the draft or they can try and just screw us and potentially pick up a player who doesn’t want to even play for them – wasting pick 1 in the draft. Flame away.......

I doubt anyone on this site would have envisaged a game plan such as the one we're seeing . Nobody predicted this at the start of the season . Nobody . It's all very well to talk in hindsight here . That stuff doesn't cut it with me . I actually only have what I would call normal expectations . You need to lift your expectations . Be a bit more demanding . Neeld isn't going to read this and have a panic attack . What's wrong with myself and may I suggest many more Demon fans , expecting better performances ? To me it's just totally natural .

It's not working as intended, but it would be foolish to expect it to after only 7 games, and considering the list Neeld has at his disposal to implement it.

The game plan isn't working . If you believe our gameplan is working so well then why are we on the bottom of the ladder (18th) with a woeful percentage . In case you didn't realise it bing , we're in the results industry here . Wins and losses . Can you kindly explain how are wonderful gameplan is working so efficiently . Leave out any crystal ball or futuristic stuff . Just the cold hard facts thank you .

Slowest player I've ever seen. When running he looks like he's wading through Port Phillip Bay with seaweed caught around his legs. Being slow in itself, while not desirable, would be OK if he compensated with deft tap work or strong contested marks. But he doesn't seem to have those skills, either.

I've been thinking about it all day. All I can hope for is that in the next 4 weeks we play some good footy and do better than expected, because if we cop 4 big floggings we won't have any supporters at the GWS game, apart from me and a few who'll turn up for Scully hating

By sounds of that Chairman Graeme Kennedy, Bailey wouldnt be continuing this type of development. (ie dropping Jack W and starting Jack G or T on the bench in games). .please save the presidents speech, I think Neeld brings a steely resolve across the media but let's stop blowing wind up his ass y'all and wait n see....the board is still very much accountable more than ever for this in 2 yrs time that's it Neeld could've stemmed the flow and lost by 5 on Fri night! The club is bout supporters/ yes members and god help us if we have to watch that trash 2nd half of yr & next yr as well

It should be a no-brainer that there must be more instructions than "Kick it long down the line to a contest" . But that's all we've really seen so far . You can't know for sure whether our players are supposed to be "spreading , looking for the footy and being daring and bold" . Are you sure that Neeld isn't "shackling their ankles" ? I only post on what I can see . Anything else would be a guess . Neeld has gone on record as saying we have put our "attacking mode of play" on hold for the time being until the players learn the defensive aspects of the game . Or words to that effect . Just have a look at the way we're playing . The players seem unsure about what to do - often It's my belief that our attacking flair has been stifled by this over-emphasis on the defensive aspect . That's what we've been witnessing anyway . Unless you or anybody else can see anything different that I can't see . If you are correct and Neeld is instructing the players to be daring and bold etc etc then the players aren't taking it on board . And that in itself is a major problem . The message isn't getting through . You say the players are just not doing it . All of them ? I could understand a few but not all of them .

I keep hearing about this "weeding out" process, but what proof of this is there? Do we know about what happens behind closed doors? No. Have we tried out as many players as we could to see whose up to it? No. I'm not saying it isn't happening, because I, like the rest of us, DO NOT KNOW. So frankly, I'm not buying it without physical proof, not just rhetoric. How do we know victories will come? Just like improvement will come after tanking? Just like premierships were going to come after all the draft picks? We DO NOT KNOW this. We've been told to be optimistic and positive for far too long. I'm angry, I'm upset, I love this footy club and I'm devastated about where it's at and the lack of hope. There were a lot of people standing up for Bailey in the tough times too, but you know what, they DIDN'T KNOW.

Once again I have to look at the statistics since nobody has yet come up with an accurate measurement for pea-heartedness. Nic Nat - Games 60, avg disposals 12, av marks 1.7, av goals 0.6, av tackles 3.6, av hitouts 18.3, disposal efficiency 67.1% J. Watts - Games 45, avg disposals 14.3, av marks 5.1, av goals 0.8, av tackles 1.7, av hitouts 0.4, disposal efficiency 74.4% So, Watts has played 75% of the games, is the best part of a full year younger, has more disposals, marks and goals per game but fewer tackles and hitouts. Given that he doesn't actually play in the ruck it's not unexpected that he should fare so poorly in the hitout stats. To summarise, Watts is younger, has played less games, gets more of the ball and does more with it. Yet he is still considered the lesser of the two players and consistently hammered by the media and supporters for a perception that he lacks "heart." Edit: Stats courtesy of http://www.footywire.com/ (except for disposal efficiency, which came from www.afl.com.au)

I admire the loyalty and the optimism of the Neeld defenders and truly hope they are correct .But after 7 rounds we sit below a club that has been in exsistence for 1 year and another for 2 .Gee, they have made good ground on the 150 year start they gave us .It is not that we havent won a game -we havent even remotely looked like winning one .I find absolute frustation and emptiness in watching us play.I might be missing it all but I cant identify any discernible focus much less a game plan .We are shambolic .Why would you stand up and applaud Neeld ?.At best you can make a case for giving him more time to turn things around but I unlike others see no signs of any turnaround.Can anyone name a measurable positive to date ?

I'm tired of reading that it's the players who are to blame for poor performances, that the players should be replaced, that the players should be 'reprogrammed' to a massively different game plan etc etc. That's rubbish in a black and white sense (no pun intended)! Of course, players have to learn and adapt etc - that's the grey area that is part of building on their natural talent (which is why they were recruited) and becoming much better, experienced AFL standard players (and of course some won't make it. It is the coach's role to get the best out of all players, not just get rid of them quickly if they don't fit the coach's 'game plan'. Football is a simple team game as well illustrated in recent years by the success of teams like Geelong - the players have highly developed skills and know where each other will be as a result of working together over time. The so-called 'game plan' in this case is natural football, relatively simple, and certainly does not require a robotic approach - it is in fact the complete opposite, allowing players to take responsibility, which is why it is so successful. The grey area is where the coach tinkers with details, which could be called that coach's 'game plan'. IMO Neeld's approach is complicated, robotic (partly Craig's influence?) and has already been overtaken by (tinkering) developments at other clubs. That's why I can't applaud Neeld, probably his assistants, or the administration that selected this group.

Excellent post. I too hope we win as few games as possible for the reasons you mentioned. I don't want and I'm sure there won't be any tanking, but I'm fully cognisant of the benefits of losing for this one last time. Garry Lyon touched on the impact a change of coach can sometimes have in the first year. The Saints coming off a finals campaign won only 4 of their first 11 in 2007. At the time I remember the former coach and many others being critical of Ross Lyon half way through his first year. The calibre of players at his disposal included Riewoldt, Montagna, Fisher, Dal Santo, Ball, Goddard, Robert Harvey, Gehrig, Hudghton, Milne, Gilbert, Gram and Baker. Not a bad baker's dozen, yet they struggled big time with a foreign game-plan and structures. Imagine the difficulty our young mob is having with such a quantum shift in playing style. Alistair Clarkson won only 5 games in his first year. Players at his disposal included Hodge, Mitchell, Franklin, Sewell, Batemen, Joel Smith, Brown, Lewis, Dixon, Crawford, Croad, Roughead and Young. Not a bad group either, but many of them were young and all and sundry were calling for Clarkson's head. Franklin played 20 games for 21 goals. At that point no-one knew he'd become the star he has. I believe that we also have talent, even though right now we're considered a laughing stock. Things can and will change once some players mature, the style becomes second nature and we get some class into the midfield.

It's only a joke to you because you don't - or won't - see the bigger picture Stuie. Change is painful. Views such as yours are understandable and inevitable. But it's a wrong view nevertheless.

Welcome to The Melbourne Demons, where we bag the cr@p out of our best and fairest and stand to applaud a coach who has taken us to 0-7 and pretty much bottom in every important stat... Don't get me wrong, I like Neeld, a lot, and he may turn out to be a great coach, but this "positive" thread after what we've seen so far this year is an absolute joke.

I am sure we all understand how tough AFL footy is and that if you are a bit off you can get belted. Being "off" includes things like skill, talent, attitude, pace, fitness, aggression, team orientation ( selfless play), courage, knowledge and understanding of the game plan , any of which or a combination of some, that may be below your opposition. It would be fair to say that we are "off" in most of these areas. If I am correct with the above, then it can be no surprise what is happening. If that is the case and we believe we have a good coach as we all did when he was appointed, then he needs full support as many on here have posted and not be white anted. We have been down for a fair while and the team needs a clean out and the addition of more players who can provide what is needed in all respects. Not necessarily nice boys but great footballers. I am not suggesting criminals but you all know what I mean. Again as many have posted we need an injection of speed, skill and hunger for success. We have a strong draft coming. We will have high picks. We hopefully will get JV for a 2nd rounder thereby preserving our high picks. There are 2 players who GWS can trade and we might have the best picks to offer. We will have some players who can be traded for some value to improve our later picks. We should also be in the market to pick up a player who shows something but is not getting a game elsewhere like Sewell when we tried to get him and now say Kennedy and Hill who are playing well for the Eagles but were modest at their previous clubs. Our good young players will get fitter , gain experience and understand the game plan better by next year and those who have tried and failed will be gone. We have the nucleus of a side but we need the injection of that skill, pace and hunger. The players that don.t care less should be discarded and the culture will change. Both the Eagles and Bombers were pathetic and in one year improved markedly. We need to back this coach, footy department and club and stop sniping. We can,t keep changing coaches all the time, maybe it really is the players we have who are just not the right players. Does anyone really believe that even God could coach us to a flag at the moment? I hope I never have to say this ever again, but I hope we finish as low as possible this year so we have the best chance to fix this mess up. A few wins and a few spots higher could really stuff up our chances for the future. I will cop it this year for the last time as long as our choices in every situation after the season are the best ones that. Can be made. I will be at the games hoping we play well for the rest of the year but deep down inside knowing that a small loss may be our best "long term result". At the same time Neeld will have my full support and hopefully that of all Dees.

I think its extremely simplistic to say our plan is Collingwood's and therefore outdated. He is teaching one side of a Collingwood gameplan. Tweaks are still to come. He is starting by building a foundation.

No, I'm more into flagcelebration.

Haha I could say the same about you. Trengove is clearly carrying some sort of injury. Grimes has been Grimes. Any notion of the captaincy holding those 2 back, is purely in your head.

Agree Dr. G yes some of the Backroom Boys at the MFC are now right in the gun. Our current situation is unacceptable, but it is what it is. The next AGM should be interesting. Supporters will not cop sh!t again, too much cash is involved from our own pockets.

I shall applaud Neeld when it is deserved. Right now he has to work his guts off. "Head down Bum up" I hope he is a long term coach. But sitting at 18th after 7 rounds is not a good start. But he is contracted for 3 years. Many of our list will be made redundant at seasons end, that is when i begin to applaud.

I've had a bit of a dip this weekend but I'm tired of losing and I'm not going to accept mediocrIty . That doesn't mean I want the coaches head or anything like that . Far from it but blind loyalty to unacceptable performances is just not on . All that "Be patient" , "Keep the faith" jargon annoys me . I started barracking for this club in 1965 . Missed by 1 year hey ? I was 28 years old when I saw my 1st final . I know what patience is all about . There are plenty on this site with similar stories . Cheers OD

Not much has been spoken about Neeld's ability to get the players onside. To me it appears many of the younger players have bought in to the new coaches message. The real worry is in regards to the senior players. Moloney, Davey, Green & Sylvia when in form are/ were our most important players(no matter what our personal opinions of them as players are). The real test of Neeld will be to get these players to buy into what the club is trying to do & to get the best out of their abilities. The club will be far better off if Neeld is able to get inside the senior players heads give them some confidence & also turn them into disciplined players rather than another clean out. Moloney & Sylvia in particular are both good enough & it's up to Neeld to turn these players careers around. Question is whether some of the senior players really have any desire to adhere to team structures & perhaps sacrifice some of the aspects of their own game & ego for the betterment of the team. Needs also has to give this group some belief & confidence. 95% of the game is played above your ears, you can talk tactics, structures, player abilities till the cows come home if the players aren't playing for each other & the coach as a unified group we are going nowhere. There are numerous examples of players who forged careers out of not much ability but got through on mental application some of out players could learn from those examples.

Kahuna's ? To take on a head coaching job ? They either remain an assistant on way less money or take the job of a head coach on about 3 - 5 times more money . Often with a 3 year guarantee . Sympathy for any coaches , any time , is misguided . Go and join the general workforce if you can't handle being a head coach . Oh , and be prepared for a bit of a paycut . Coaches get well remunerated for their time . At least 6-7 times the average Australian wage and up to 15 times this amount . And there is a fairly good life after coaching . They're not forced to do it . At the moment all Neeld has proven is that we don't know if he can coach or not . His game plan is ridiculous and won't work . It's only a matter of time before somebody in the media will take his outdated game plan to task . And then watch all the others jump in like vultures . Hardest team to play against ? What an absolute joke . Now , he might or should get much better . I hope so , but only those with blind faith will guarantee that . Pressure needs to be put on Neeld . It should have happened after round 2 . He needs to abandon this game plan altogether and start again . I hope he's not too stubborn to change . All our attacking flair and creativity has vanished . Our teamwork is virtually non existant . That is Neeld's fault . The buck stops with him , as it should . I'm not calling for his head but he needs to lift his game . The players don't get off the hook . Only Clark , Jones , Magner and maybe Bartram , Howe , McKenzie , McDonald and Rivers have had acceptable years so far . The rest are either way below form , injured or not good enough .

i have been hardtack for 7 weeks now let me know when i can stop i'm getting a really short of breath