Bailey Locked In

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

By any measure, it simply does not make any sense to renew any contract, until there is something to truly measure in terms of performance. We cannot possibly know the KPI's which DB is required to meet, but surely they cannot be limited to the extent that such a judgment can be made, with a 16% win record.

Youth and lack of experience is a given. A sense of purpose, dedication and commitment from any playing group is a must. I have yet to see those things to a level which would serve to convince me that DB is the man for the long term. He may well be an astute developer of young men, but that on its own does not make him a good AFL coach. The jury is still out and it is reasonable to take as much time as it needs to make a final decision, before pre-empting any contract extension.

[Craig Drinker 179]

By any measure, it simply does not make any sense to renew any contract, until there is something to truly measure in terms of performance. We cannot possibly know the KPI's which DB is required to meet, but surely they cannot be limited to the extent that such a judgment can be made, with a 16% win record.

Youth and lack of experience is a given. A sense of purpose, dedication and commitment from any playing group is a must. I have yet to see those things to a level which would serve to convince me that DB is the man for the long term. He may well be an astute developer of young men, but that on its own does not make him a good AFL coach. The jury is still out and it is reasonable to take as much time as it needs to make a final decision, before pre-empting any contract extension.

The clubs hierarchy obviously are planning on extending Bailey's contract for a reason.It's doubtful they just came up with this on a whim.

Therefore they must be thinking something along the lines of:

1.He is doing a good job.

2.He is following a plan that agrees with thinking of the Board.

3.It will benefit the club by extending his contract.(They have an option to wait.)

4.He has the respect of the players.

5.He is a good educator of young players.

I would expect they would have some performance measures they would be assessing him on.It would be interesting to get Chris Connolly's views on Bailey as a coach given that CC has coached at AFL level recently.

[beelzebub 23,200]

I'll re-phrase.

So your evaluation of Bailey two minutes after the draft picks come in...."it's a different cause" ...is it ? After a NAB Cup game... ?

Hardly 2mins after...it was everything up to the point of snaring them. And ftr i thought Bailey had done well in ensuring we got them.

Again. How about evaluating where we are at present as a list, and not in the context of where we were. Understand now ?

we have a very yuoung , if not the youngest list going around. We have within that list , by all accounts , a treasure trove of talent. Much media has been written andd presented showcasing this. Bailey is on record as saying much effort had been put into some of the simpler things... skills wise...like kicking ( imagine that )amongst other things. Its quite possible and highly likely that this wont flourishas our forte for just a littel whiles ...but we arent seeing a lot to even get cheery about.

But we are not the only team with a weightiness towards youth and the litmus will surely be over the next few months as more Challenge cup matches lead into the season proper as to whether there has been any real advancement of the team. The list is vastly improved since he ( DB ) arrived..the onfield displays ?? well......

[Deeoldfart 7,996]

The clubs hierarchy obviously are planning on extending Bailey's contract for a reason.It's doubtful they just came up with this on a whim.

Therefore they must be thinking something along the lines of:

1.He is doing a good job.

2.He is following a plan that agrees with thinking of the Board.

3.It will benefit the club by extending his contract.(They have an option to wait.)

4.He has the respect of the players.

5.He is a good educator of young players.

I would expect they would have some performance measures they would be assessing him on.It would be interesting to get Chris Connolly's views on Bailey as a coach given that CC has coached at AFL level recently.

Thanks Fairbump, for bringing some reality to this debate!!

[dreamin' man 0]

I don't think Sheahan's comments about DB are "salacious" (lewd or erotic) & I think he's right. If we sign DB for two & win, say, three games for the year how will it be for the players, fans at the end of this season? No one will want to play for us (already mentioned on this site or 'ology that Scully seems less than impressed to be there), our membership will be reduced to only the rusted-on types like those of us who contribute to this site. We simply can't afford another lousy season, let alone two, when our existence is tenuous.

[Keyser Söze 0]

I don't think Sheahan's comments about DB are "salacious" (lewd or erotic) & I think he's right. If we sign DB for two & win, say, three games for the year how will it be for the players, fans at the end of this season? No one will want to play for us (already mentioned on this site or 'ology that Scully seems less than impressed to be there), our membership will be reduced to only the rusted-on types like those of us who contribute to this site. We simply can't afford another lousy season, let alone two, when our existence is tenuous.

I meant more in terms of "obscene" or "grossly indecent".

But you are right to an extent.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Keyser Söze

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Its all a bit academic now to argue this as Bailey has been signed for 2011.

Given we have such a young list, 2010 was always going to be a rocky road. Sunday may have been the first bump.

[H_T 3,032]

Its all a bit academic now to argue this as Bailey has been signed for 2011.

Hot off the press Rhino ?

[1858 285]

I understand Sheahan's sentiment but it comes down to whether we place our mindset in that of a journo or the club. For mine, an extra contracted year (2011) is a satisfactory and important condition under which Bailey should coach this year. Naturally, 2012 in the bag is a different story though I think Sheahan mentioned that to gain some emotive weight to his over-all article. I have no doubt that Bailey knows exactly our flaws and exactly what 2010 football is all about. Getting us to perform is another story and from that POV Olympic Park can't come quick enough.

I saw a lot of things in the Freo game that were pretty bad and despite it feeling obvious that the coach can easily rectify many of those instances our biggest challenge is still a tip-top squad - I don't mean injury free I mean a group of players who can adequately perform roles given to them at 2010 AFL level for 4 quarters. Even though Freo did the right things and we were ordinary the other night there was still a clear difference IMO in the condition of both sides as a whole. Freo looked fresh, hardly had a strapped player and ran in waves and positioned themselves well all night. Joel MacDonald was probably our best player, he played intensive tempo football under pressure and used his nouse and body and he just happens to be from an AFL club where he would have been considered average at best - this is an eye opener people. Both the coach and the players need time and stability.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

I meant more in terms of "obscene" or "grossly indecent".

But you are right to an extent.

Why are Mike Sheehan's comments out of order? Whether we agree with him or not, he is an "opinion" piece writer and within his profession, a respected one at that. Sheehan writes as he does because his opinion pieces usually generate debate and as a result, they sell the newspaper he works for. Hence this debate on this forum

Apparently, according to some, those of us to have the temerity to question DB are seen as being "hysterical", yet Sheehan writes a piece that supports one school of thought on the forum, and suddenly conspiracy theories abound as to his motives. Guys, it works both ways.

Again, I ask what I consider to be a reasonable question. If an extension is considered the appropriate thing to do for DB, how long should we give him - 1, 2, 3 or even 5 years? If the strategy implodes, can this club, in particular, cope with and afford the ensuing collateral damage? There is potential for some serious fall out if we go into any extension, without fully thinking it through. A mid season review, as with any club, is the best time to look at this and not before.

It is imperative we adopt caution with this issue.

Edited February 23, 2010 by iv'a worn smith

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I don't often agree with Sheahan but I do on this occasion.

[Demon Stalwart 255]

Why should Bailey get a long term contract?

Okay here it is in a nutshell

Bailey had an ordinary list it is claimed over the past few years

Now hopefully we have all this potential new talent that in years to come will lead us to the Holy Grail.

Sacrifices were made to get us to this point of that there is no doubt, not only by the club but by the members as well

We understand that the players need to be blooded, to gain the AFL experience they need to get us to where we all want to be.

But part of that is to establish a winning culture, to create a belief in their own minds that not only can they play, but that they can play at this level and not only be competitive but they can also "WIN".

The question is?

Is Bailey the one to be able to install this in the players is he capable of installing the belief in themselves that they can win

Over the last few years as a supporter I have seen some glimmers of this but not a lot

So now it’s a whole new ball game and mediocre performances are no longer excusable.

So yes to me and I would believe most members, Bailey has to now prove himself!

How does he do this?

I want to see a contest in every game. I mean a contest down to the line. No capitulation no throwing in of the towel

This doesn’t mean we are going to win every game because we are not. But if Melbourne is competitive in every game and can win a reasonable percentage of games (at least 8 minimum) and they are competitive in all the rest with no thrashings or debacles.

Only then will it be time to offer Bailey a longer term contract I believe.

In my opinion until he can prove that he can make them competitive as well as win games why should we??

And don’t talk to me about the media, who cares?

I’m just interested in the club and what is best for the club.

The Media can go take a hike.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Why should Bailey get a long term contract?

Okay here it is in a nutshell

Bailey had an ordinary list it is claimed over the past few years

Now hopefully we have all this potential new talent that in years to come will lead us to the Holy Grail.

Sacrifices were made to get us to this point of that there is no doubt, not only by the club but by the members as well

We understand that the players need to be blooded, to gain the AFL experience they need to get us to where we all want to be.

But part of that is to establish a winning culture, to create a belief in their own minds that not only can they play, but that they can play at this level and not only be competitive but they can also "WIN".

The question is?

Is Bailey the one to be able to install this in the players is he capable of installing the belief in themselves that they can win

Over the last few years as a supporter I have seen some glimmers of this but not a lot

So now it's a whole new ball game and mediocre performances are no longer excusable.

So yes to me and I would believe most members, Bailey has to now prove himself!

How does he do this?

I want to see a contest in every game. I mean a contest down to the line. No capitulation no throwing in of the towel

This doesn't mean we are going to win every game because we are not. But if Melbourne is competitive in every game and can win a reasonable percentage of games (at least 8 minimum) and they are competitive in all the rest with no thrashings or debacles.

Only then will it be time to offer Bailey a longer term contract I believe.

In my opinion until he can prove that he can make them competitive as well as win games why should we??

And don't talk to me about the media, who cares?

I'm just interested in the club and what is best for the club.

The Media can go take a hike.

Agreed.

[titan_uranus 24,656]

The issue is not Bailey's past 2 years at the club. No one else could have done any better, and, as Sheahan points out, if there wasn't the lure of a PP, we may well have won a few more.

However, I still believe signing Bailey to a contract now is foolish, and that's something I've believed since well before Sunday. I'm not saying we will, but if we do have another year like the last 2, I'm not sure that Bailey will be the right man to lead us beyond this year. I've made my views very clear in regards to our gameplan/match-day tactics, and ultimately those are the responsibility of the coach.

There do exist reasons for extending contracts early, such as club stability, player faith, and the coach's personal assurance, but in this case I believe the most important factor is on-field improvement. Before Sunday, the overwhelming thoughts on this site were that we were going to improve this year to a point where we would win something like 7 wins and climb a few spots up the ladder. Whilst that is still achievable, Sunday's performance can only diminish our chances of that.

IMO, the best thing we can do is put our faith in Bailey publicly, but not sign him up until we show improvement on the field.

[Hardnut 327]

Demon stalwart is spot-on and probably fair to everyone.

Personally, as a Melbourne supporter who knew MFC when it was ruthless and successful, I would replace Bailey immediately. It would be even better if Bailey did the right thing and stepped down as Dean Laidley did at North. Then MFC could move on from this debacle with some dignity still intact.

[Clanger King 9]

If they dont sign Bailey i think the club would be going backwards again. We are one of the youngest lists in the AFL. what do young players need CONFIDENCE and STABILITY.

Sack the coach that has just drafted and beleived in them. What will that do? Make them second guess themselves ask themselves are they good enough to be playing AFL? Is it my fault the coach got sacked? Will i be part of the next clean out...? Which could set us back another 5 years.

Some Melbourne supporters need to pull there heads in

[stitches 19]

If they dont sign Bailey i think the club would be going backwards again. We are one of the youngest lists in the AFL. what do young players need CONFIDENCE and STABILITY.

Sack the coach that has just drafted and beleived in them. What will that do? Make them second guess themselves ask themselves are they good enough to be playing AFL? Is it my fault the coach got sacked? Will i be part of the next clean out...? Which could set us back another 5 years.

Some Melbourne supporters need to pull there heads in

Once again I will state that most people are not calling for Dean Bailey's head they just want the club to wait until the end of the year, when they can properly review his performance, before they make any rash decisions.

[Hardnut 327]

Understand where you are coming from Clanger King, but my understanding is that the players don't know where they are at now, especially on the field. Better to let them play basic football first - that's what they were drafted for - then improve their game tactics understanding.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

If they dont sign Bailey i think the club would be going backwards again. We are one of the youngest lists in the AFL. what do young players need CONFIDENCE and STABILITY.

Sack the coach that has just drafted and beleived in them. What will that do? Make them second guess themselves ask themselves are they good enough to be playing AFL? Is it my fault the coach got sacked? Will i be part of the next clean out...? Which could set us back another 5 years.

Some Melbourne supporters need to pull there heads in

Yeah, Ok Ok, we have the youngest list around - no other club has had to do it as tough as we have had to in recent times --------- no not at all. It wasn't all that long ago Thompson was being touted as the first coach sacked during a year, nor was it that long ago Clarkson had real problems with Kennett. Eddie Magoo refused to endorse Malthouse and said all positions in the football department will be reviewed at season's end. I hate to admit it, but Eddie made the right call then. Laidley jumped before he was pushed and the apprentice Scott came in and stamped his brand on the youngsters almost immediately.

All I am I saying is, it is prudent to wait for any re-appointment (extension) and evaluation process, before locking into an arrangement that could also be very harmful to the overall welfare of the club.

I can think of no other enterprise in life, where such a decision is made, before necessary performance measures can be taken. It simply makes good sense to wait.

[Clanger King 9]

Once again I will state that most people are not calling for Dean Bailey's head they just want the club to wait until the end of the year, when they can properly review his performance, before they make any rash decisions.

Yes I understand. Melbourne supporters always take the approach of the glass is half empty what about the wth glass is half full?

On the weekend we had alot of our senior playres out and compaired to freo who had there full list to choose from. They were pretty firm favourites on the tote. yes we got beaten by 46pts but our average losing margin is 40 over the last 4-5 years we were never going to win. Yes the way we played was poor but it can sometimes take not much to improve a side. We did alot of the basic things wrong cause i think we were trying to hard. if we as supporters continue to put pressure on our young team they might continue to try to hard and forget about the basic things and become indivuals

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Yes I understand. Melbourne supporters always take the approach of the glass is half empty what about the wth glass is half full?

On the weekend we had alot of our senior playres out and compaired to freo who had there full list to choose from. They were pretty firm favourites on the tote. yes we got beaten by 46pts but our average losing margin is 40 over the last 4-5 years we were never going to win. Yes the way we played was poor but it can sometimes take not much to improve a side. We did alot of the basic things wrong cause i think we were trying to hard. if we as supporters continue to put pressure on our young team they might continue to try to hard and forget about the basic things and become indivuals

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion. We're simply asking for a "sound" business decision. .............And footy is a business nowadays, let's not forget that

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Meh. This is just payback for Bailey sacrificing his win/loss record to get us the PP. I have no doubt that the deal was done around July last year.

[TonyMelb 7]

Spot on.

Totally agree. What we were told by CC was that the players were ready to go a few weeks ago and while not expecting to play finals we need to see some concrete progress in terms of skills, disposals and decision making as the players gain in experience. No signs of any of that on Sunday night. So Mike's article is correct. No need for and MFC cannot afford to extend DB's contract immediately in view of the lack of readiness of the team on Sunday. MFC does not have the money to pay a coach out early given financial support it gets and we can not afford to waste the window of opportunity that the recent recruits including Watts, Scully, Trengove etc will provide in 2 years time!

[Clanger King 9]

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion. We're simply asking for a "sound" business decision. .............And footy is a business nowadays, let's not forget that

I agree but who/what can tell you that hes not the right person for the job? Who out there would be better for the job? its a big business decision so they would want to make sure that there is someone out there that work with the same list beacuse if there isnt then we will have to rebuild again

[agent_orange 0]

Is it not obvious that Mike Sheahan has a vested interest..?

I'm surprised so many people are so easily fooled.

Not a matter of being fooled. It is what most are thinking. Words are good, actions are better.

I hope as much as anyone that Bailey can pull it off - Sunday was worrying. I expected them to have more of a dip - no AFL player should be making that many skill errors.

Still think the players are struggling with Bailey's game plan, or Bails is unable to implement it. He'd be better of just playing a simpler straight down the lines game plan. The players would improve their game overnight.

For some reason, everything is too complicated. There is no need to handball around in circles. Firstly, it takes forever to get the ball down the field and secondly just end up making a mistake.