Jeff White - believe it or not !

[rednblue2009 0]

I was surprised to read in todays Age footy magazine club player reviews - Jeff White 'Led the competition in hit-outs in 2007"

This statistic amazes me - is it true?

[Jarka 767]

  rednblue2008 said:

I was surprised to read in todays Age footy magazine club player reviews - Jeff White 'Led the competition in hit-outs in 2007"

This statistic amazes me - is it true?

No, he was 4th with 461

http://www.finalsiren.com/AFLPlayerStats.a...=HitOuts%20Desc

[kieranbj 111]

I think at the end of round 22 he was leading the comp for hitouts and others passed him in the finals.

However, i think Jeff would be the first to admit that his hitouts were not as effective this season as seasons past. That said it is one of my real gripes with Demonland the bashing Jeff White has received at times. Ruined by a rule change, he remains one of our best players and has held the ruck together with literally no support for years. In these cynical days White remains one of the frighteningly few players i feel genuine pride for that he is representing the Dees.

[w00dy 146]

correct weight kieran... while he isn't as good as he used to be, he's still at least in the top 10 ruckman in the comp, and would be close to top 5... who is better than him?

cox

sandilands

lade

ottens

mcintosh

wouldn't be many more ruckman out there who are better than jeff...

[rednblue2009 0]

  kieranbj said:

I think at the end of round 22 he was leading the comp for hitouts and others passed him in the finals.

However, i think Jeff would be the first to admit that his hitouts were not as effective this season as seasons past. That said it is one of my real gripes with Demonland the bashing Jeff White has received at times. Ruined by a rule change, he remains one of our best players and has held the ruck together with literally no support for years. In these cynical days White remains one of the frighteningly few players i feel genuine pride for that he is representing the Dees.

Thanks guys for the clarifications and views - I certainly didn't mean to knock Whitey in my headline - it is just that the fact of most hitouts truly amazed me - he has certainly been restricted with the new centre bounce rule , and I didn't guess the tally of hitouts that he obtained.

He gets little support, so Meeson and Johnson have to take some of the pressure off him - I doubt that Jamar is as capable.

[Gouga 570]

  rednblue2008 said:

I doubt that Jamar is as capable.

If people are getting sick of Jeff White bashing then I'm getting sick of Mark Jamar bashing. From the reports I've read Jamar has shown more in the ruck than PJ, Meesen and White in the matches so far.

He had a good season in 2006 and played injured in 2007. DB signed him up for two more years so the club is obviously confident he can play the second ruck position (maybe even first by the end of the season).

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

  Gouga said:

If people are getting sick of Jeff White bashing then I'm getting sick of Mark Jamar bashing. From the reports I've read Jamar has shown more in the ruck than PJ, Meesen and White in the matches so far.

He had a good season in 2006 and played injured in 2007. DB signed him up for two more years so the club is obviously confident he can play the second ruck position (maybe even first by the end of the season).

At the moment Jamar, PJ and Meesen have shown little capacity to grab that second ruck role. We have been crying out for a capable second ruck for Jeff White since the rule changed in 2005. WIth White closing on retirement there is a big opportunity for a ruckman to take over the reigns. The contenders so far have yet to show they can get their feet in the stirrups.

Jamar has not filled the role in that time and after some promise in 2005 has plateaued. As for his contract, his services would be cheap and at worst he is cheap insurance for injury but yet to be a viable and reliable option. He could easily be 4th in line for a game and be low grade trade option at year end.

[Gorgoroth 13,190]

The problem with jamar is not his rucking its the fact he does nothing around the ground. He playes well at sandy but does not seem to be able to impose himself upon the game when the bal;l is flowing back and forth.

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

  condemned 84 said:

The problem with jamar is not his rucking its the fact he does nothing around the ground. He playes well at sandy but does not seem to be able to impose himself upon the game when the bal;l is flowing back and forth.

Correct. No-one is doubting the Russian's ability to ruck, its his work around the ground that means PJ is ahead of him. PJ is far more mobile around the ground and far more versatile, whereas Jamar is quite one-dimensional. Add to that PJ's improved ruck work over the pre-season, and it adds up to PJ being a far preferred choice.

[Bring-Back-Powell 15,401]

  dees_rule_4eva said:

Correct. No-one is doubting the Russian's ability to ruck, its his work around the ground that means PJ is ahead of him. PJ is far more mobile around the ground and far more versatile, whereas Jamar is quite one-dimensional. Add to that PJ's improved ruck work over the pre-season, and it adds up to PJ being a far preferred choice.

Agree.

PJ looked quite good against North and should be given a spot for round 1.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Nothing but a 'feeling' but I think Bails has other things in mind for Meeson anyway. Id like to see PJ given a chance..He either makes it or he's on my list for 09 !! lol

[don cordner 204]

no suprise to me..

this guy is L33t

[biggestred 5,281]

its not that he doesnt win the hitouts

[Deleted: Language]

measure our clearances won with our clearances lost and its another story. the clearances from the stoppages are the important bit!!!!

[bjgc 0]

If White had a decent midfield to work with he would still be considered a great ruckman. Our midfielders are more to blame than White's ruckwork our midfield at this stage is just not good enough at clearances.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

  bjgc said:

If White had a decent midfield to work with he would still be considered a great ruckman. Our midfielders are more to blame than White's ruckwork our midfield at this stage is just not good enough at clearances.

You raise a good point bigc. There is a naive assumption that because White wins the hit out and midfield loses the clearance that it is the hit out that the problem. Its not necessarily true. White has issues but our midfield last year was crud particularly at centre bounces and stoppages.

We need our rucks to be competitive but we need our midfield to be better than the opposition. That is where many games are won and lost.

[george_on_the_outer 7,855]

Hitouts are something which is useful as a statistic to Dreamteam fanatics and nothing more....

In football the only statistic that is relevant is hitouts to advantage. Don't blame the mid-field if the hitout is 20 metres over their head to no-one in particular. Don't blame the mid-field if the hitout is directly into the arms of the opposition....but don't blame the ruck if the mids overrun the ball or cough it up with the first possession.

True son of the club that he is, Jeffs best days are behind him. Not through any fault of his own but the centre square rule has killed him because he cannot use his leap to win the contest. It is no surprise that 200cm rucks are the norm now not the 196 type that he is. Then around the ground the 200cm giants just stand in the way at throw ups and boundary ball ins.

Personally I don't think there is any advantage in having a ruck on the ground most of the time these days, unless they can do other things like Cox and Lade do. I have wondered before who will be the first coach to realise that no ruck but 4 mids will beat 1 ruck and 3 mids at the centre bounce more than 50% because there is noone to hit it to.