Pagan is man for the job

[Guest wheres_jacka]

I just have a gut feeling he will do well. Cant justify it, just do.

[Jarka 767]

A lot of these things are based purely on gut instinct. Me though, I don't agree. For starters we won't be able to afford him and I don't think he's really that good. At the Kangaroos he had some great players who really didn't need to much direction and at Carlton he hasn't shown anything other than an ability to rack up priority picks.

[GoDs 0]

I just have a gut feeling he will do well. Cant justify it, just do.

no thanks. The upside would be he demands respect hwever he is an old school coach in a changed era... not for me.

[Freak 100]

I don't understand why Melbourne or anyone would want to have the services of a washed up coach from another club. this includes Pagan and Connolly. pagan has done NOTHING for carlton since he has been there..they are still right down the bottom and they have a few good young players(like every afl team) but that is due to the recruiting manager, not pagan. Connolly on the other hand has the personality of a stick and I will be really p!ssed off if we choose any of these 2 hacks who will demand more money anyway.

[sylvinator 96]

in the last 4 seasons, carlton have won less than 20 games. carlton's list is still a rabble.

PAGAN IS DUMP. He was lucky to coach a team with Carey in it and he could base his team around him. Since then he has proven he is not up to it. I onestly cant believe carlton have still kept him as coach considering his [censored] results since he came to the club.

[Gorgoroth 12,447]

Hence the rumour of Carlton wanting Voss for next year.

[herb 1]

Id say ratten will coach Carlton next year, remember sticks basically runs the club.

[Johnny Karate 559]

A lot of these things are based purely on gut instinct. Me though, I don't agree. For starters we won't be able to afford him and I don't think he's really that good. At the Kangaroos he had some great players who really didn't need to much direction and at Carlton he hasn't shown anything other than an ability to rack up priority picks.

Agreed.

Don't think we can afford Deni$.

That's also why I don't think we'll get Voss or anybody with a very high profile.

[Kit Walker 210]

in the last 4 seasons, carlton have won less than 20 games. carlton's list is still a rabble.

PAGAN IS DUMP. He was lucky to coach a team with Carey in it and he could base his team around him. Since then he has proven he is not up to it. I onestly cant believe carlton have still kept him as coach considering his [censored] results since he came to the club.

I don't agree with that at all. His record pre-Carlton is fantastic - 5 u/19 premierships with North, a reserves premiership with Essendon before taking North to 2 flags. It's all well and good to say he had Carey but there have been plenty of fantastic players who have not won premierships, even in recent times (Ablett and Lockett come to mind as key forwards). People forget that he made Carey captain at 21 because he has IMO a record without parallel in developing young players.

The Carlton situation is also much more problematic because he's coached in a period where Carlton have been destroyed with salary cap/draft pick penalties, the end of the John Elliot era and being white-anted from inside the club to the extent that an assistant coach applies for his job and makes a presentation to the board while he still has it. Even with that into account, the development of Waite and Thornton is impressive and again he is showing his track record of putting faith in quality young players by giving Waite the captaincy for this round.

If he's available, and with a year left on his contract that is still highly doubtful, the MFC board would be negligent if they didn't at least consider him. I'm fine with Voss, Harvey, [insert other potentially promising coach's name here] but I wouldn't be at all unhappy if Pagan was coaching the dees next year.

[Jarka 767]

The Carlton situation is also much more problematic because he's coached in a period where Carlton have been destroyed with salary cap/draft pick penalties,

That's a flawed theory because losing draft picks will hurt you in 3 or 4 years time, when those players are meant to mature. Pagan's teams have been dreadfull since he started at Carlton and he wasn't too good after Carey left.

Carey is probably the most influential player we've seen in the modern era, more so than Judd.

[Kit Walker 210]

That's a flawed theory because losing draft picks will hurt you in 3 or 4 years time, when those players are meant to mature. Pagan's teams have been dreadfull since he started at Carlton and he wasn't too good after Carey left.

Carey is probably the most influential player we've seen in the modern era, more so than Judd.

I don't disagree with your Carey analysis but a part (and I say a significant part) of what made him so influential was his development by Pagan. This is in giving him the leadership role at an early stage and developing tactics to maximise his effectiveness.

In relation to draft picks, Pagan took over in 2002 after they had won their first ever wooden spoon. Finished second last the year after but rose to 11th with a very weak list in 2004 and won the 2005 pre-season cup (which means nothing to most people although the 87 night grand final is one of my best memories). I'd say the 2005 and 2006 seasons are very much related to those lost draft picks which were the 2002 and 2003 drafts (1st and 2nd round picks in each year). This is the 3rd and 4th years. Add to that the off field problems and...

[Jarka 767]

I don't disagree with your Carey analysis but a part (and I say a significant part) of what made him so influential was his development by Pagan. This is in giving him the leadership role at an early stage and developing tactics to maximise his effectiveness.

In relation to draft picks, Pagan took over in 2002 after they had won their first ever wooden spoon. Finished second last the year after but rose to 11th with a very weak list in 2004 and won the 2005 pre-season cup (which means nothing to most people although the 87 night grand final is one of my best memories). I'd say the 2005 and 2006 seasons are very much related to those lost draft picks which were the 2002 and 2003 drafts (1st and 2nd round picks in each year). This is the 3rd and 4th years. Add to that the off field problems and...

I understand what you're saying but at the end of the day it's come down to your opinion and it's healthy to disagree. I just don't think we can afford him and I think there are other younger guys who are just as good.

[Kit Walker 210]

I understand what you're saying but at the end of the day it's come down to your opinion and it's healthy to disagree. I just don't think we can afford him and I think there are other younger guys who are just as good.

That's fair enough. Cost and availability would probably knock him out anyway.

Just think he should be considered. Like I said, I'm not locked on any particular option

[Jarka 767]

That's fair enough. Cost and availability would probably knock him out anyway.

Just think he should be considered. Like I said, I'm not locked on any particular option

I competely agree with that, so yeah, everyone should be considered then.

[maximum bob 462]

More clutching at straws. Forget Pagan and Carey. There is absolutely no chance either will be coaching us next year.

Carey is morally bankrupt and a flake and wouldn't have the respect of the players and Pagan has had his moment in the sun and it won't be repeated. He's more interested in his horses than his players these days. Coaching a footy team now funds his real passion.

[Kit Walker 210]

Carey is morally bankrupt and a flake and wouldn't have the respect of the players and Pagan has had his moment in the sun and it won't be repeated. He's more interested in his horses than his players these days. Coaching a footy team now funds his real passion.

Carey far too big a risk. Controversy would destroy the whole optimism factor of getting a new coach.

With Pagan though, people said very similar things about Sir Alex Ferguson...

[Grooski 0]

You guys have your head up your own ar$e. Pagan is widely considered to be one of the best match day coaches going around according to his own and past players. He inherited an absolute rabble of a football club and has done fairly well to keep the club moving forward. Its tough when he has to invest in new players that are complete rejects anywhere else to try to protect his young players from burnout. His team still lacks firepower but is showing marked improvement on previous years.

He is my pick if he is available. He takes no prisoners, drops players when they shirk at a contest and is able to employ different plans of attack for different situations. Dare I say it, he is even the 'r' word. Isn't that what we are looking for after all?

[Jarka 767]

You guys have your head up your own ar$e. Pagan is widely considered to be one of the best match day coaches going around according to his own and past players. He inherited an absolute rabble of a football club and has done fairly well to keep the club moving forward. Its tough when he has to invest in new players that are complete rejects anywhere else to try to protect his young players from burnout. His team still lacks firepower but is showing marked improvement on previous years.

He is my pick if he is available. He takes no prisoners, drops players when they shirk at a contest and is able to employ different plans of attack for different situations. Dare I say it, he is even the 'r' word. Isn't that what we are looking for after all?

Do you think Melbourne can afford him?

[beelzebub 22,799]

not that I particularly would wont pagan...but as to cost... do you think Danners was on peanuts ?? Gardner will get the best coach we can... money wont be so much the object ( a partial contributary factor for sure ) ...just suitability

[warren dean 193]

Don't forget in Pagan's last year with North (2002) he held the club together after the "scandal" and with no Carey managed to get an ageing and imo not particularly strong list into the finals for the ninth time in ten years. Yes, his timing in heading to Carlton was not great, but he can coach! His record as a junior coach is indisputable, and nine finals appearances out of 10 years, including seven consecutive finishes of fourth or better (including 1997 when Carey missed over half a season after dislocating his shoulder in round 1 against us) tells me the guy is a winner. I doubt a DNA combination of Vince Lombardi, Norm Smith and Jock McHale could have done much with the Carlton rabble!

[michael17seddon 0]

I wouldnt be toupset to see a dual premiership coach of the modern era coaching the demons