7 hours ago, jnrmac said:

'the way the list is' is laughable. Almost our strongest possible side.

Exactly.

"Our strongest possible side" now includes a number of players who are a shadow of their former selves and/or on the decline, and is stacked full of kids and players with less than 50 games.

Meanwhile, down in the VFL the cupboard is even barer and you can probably count the number of players banging the door down for promotion on one finger.

Kicking Efficiency out of the 183 midfielders or mid-forwards listed on Wheelo Ratings.

Ed Langdon 13th

Xavier Lindsay 20th

Harvey Langford 27th

Chandler 59th

Pickett 110th

Oliver 142nd

Viney  169th

Tracc 176th

51 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Kicking Efficiency out of the 183 midfielders or mid-forwards listed on Wheelo Ratings.

Ed Langdon 13th

Xavier Lindsay 20th

Harvey Langford 27th

Chandler 59th

Pickett 110th

Oliver 142nd

Viney  169th

Tracc 176th

When Ed Langdon is your most efficient mid/forward kick you know you're in a spot of bother kicking wise (note: I'm guessing Spargo isn't included on that list as he's not a mid?)

1 hour ago, BoBo said:

Kicking Efficiency out of the 183 midfielders or mid-forwards listed on Wheelo Ratings.

Ed Langdon 13th

Xavier Lindsay 20th

Harvey Langford 27th

Chandler 59th

Pickett 110th

Oliver 142nd

Viney  169th

Tracc 176th

Obviously kicking efficiency is not a priority when you sign contracts, multi million or otherwise, at the Dees. Kozz is excused but that is damning for a few others.

8 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I always find it amazing when the whole team is not switched on.

I am not blaming Coaches, because they have probably been pumping up the whole side for at least 90 minutes, but like Sunday in the first quarter, the whole 22 gave such a small response. Not 1 or 2 players, i can understand that, but when the whole side is flat. How does that occur?

It has to be psychological, we need to improve massively in this area

Jeeelong & the Filth have been doing it for decades, it’s expected, as it should be. But for the MFC it’s always been very sporadic.

The Whole Club needs a line in the sand. After 2021 i thought this had been sorted, but too many went into party mode and now the Mojo has gone

Losing Gus Brayshaw was a massive hit, but it should never have taken the whole Club down….

There has to be some serious fight shown in these last 8 weeks or else the MFC will be irrelevant once again…..

We are teetering on the edge right now

I cannot for the life of me get my head around this one. Yes, we've seen it before but this week it really ticked me off big time.

We come off a bye with a point to prove and a coach who is getting crucified and we hardly put up a whimper. At this point you'd almost rather be smashed because then at least you know what you're dealing with, but the fact that this team needs to be 6 goals down to start putting in an effort suggests a psychological issue much more complex than most of us are qualified for.

And I'm not just potting Melbourne here either. I saw Paddy Cripps and Jacob Weitering come out during last week and throw huge support behind their coach. They were going to make a statement to show this and look what happened next. There are some plausible excuses for things that happen in this sport as much as we hate to hear them but not being 'ready' for a game of AFL or turning up with 3/10 effort from the word go is a cardinal sin. At least Carlton had a 6 day break excuse to wheel out.

2 hours ago, BoBo said:

Kicking Efficiency out of the 183 midfielders or mid-forwards listed on Wheelo Ratings.

Ed Langdon 13th

Xavier Lindsay 20th

Harvey Langford 27th

Chandler 59th

Pickett 110th

Oliver 142nd

Viney  169th

Tracc 176th

Sorry to bang on about this, but when Langdon is 100 spots higher than Pickett in a stat supposed to measure quality of kicking, is that stat in any way meaningful?

47 minutes ago, Maxie said:

Obviously kicking efficiency is not a priority when you sign contracts, multi million or otherwise, at the Dees. Kozz is excused but that is damning for a few others.

I know this was sarcasm but this is actually our entire problem.

Almost everyone on our list is either good at winning their own ball, or good at kicking, but not both.

Trac, Oliver, Viney and Gawn get spoken of enough. Rivers is in the same basket. At their best in 2021-23 the first three tore games apart to the point where we could cover for their kicking. Now that they’ve slid back, and with the other 17 clubs all learning how to win by scoring from the back half, their strengths are no longer proportionate to their contracts (at least for Clarry and Viney, anyway).

Then there’s players like Spargo, Laurie and Billings. Sure, they can kick, but what use is it to us if they can’t find it more than 10 times a game? (And, for the first two, they also have to deal with below average foot speed).

Which is why Koz, Langford, Lindsay, Bowey and Windsor (maybe Kolt) need to be invested in.

2 hours ago, BoBo said:

Kicking Efficiency out of the 183 midfielders or mid-forwards listed on Wheelo Ratings.

Ed Langdon 13th

Xavier Lindsay 20th

Harvey Langford 27th

Chandler 59th

Pickett 110th

Oliver 142nd

Viney  169th

Tracc 176th

Kicking efficiency is such a useless stat. It rewards 15m backwards kicks that are a far worse outcome than a kick to a lead inside 50 that falls short but still might result in a score.

If you want a meaningful stat, then Wheeloratings also has Kick Rating made up of Risk Rating and Retention Rating. It’s only available for teams from what I can tell. @WheeloRatings Are the individual player kick ratings available?

Our team retention rating is 5th in the AFL so it’s not too bad overall. I’d love to know where each of our players sit compared to other teams, as that would actually be useful.

People didn't watch the game if they thought we didn't try. we did evertything possible to get back into it and if Melk kicked that last one who knows what could have happened.

Thought we played really well at times.

3 hours ago, BoBo said:

Kicking Efficiency out of the 183 midfielders or mid-forwards listed on Wheelo Ratings.

Ed Langdon 13th

Xavier Lindsay 20th

Harvey Langford 27th

Chandler 59th

Pickett 110th

Oliver 142nd

Viney  169th

Tracc 176th

of all the finger pointing on demonland, those bottom 3 statistics are one of the key reasons for our struggles.

1 hour ago, layzie said:

I cannot for the life of me get my head around this one. Yes, we've seen it before but this week it really ticked me off big time.

We come off a bye with a point to prove and a coach who is getting crucified and we hardly put up a whimper. At this point you'd almost rather be smashed because then at least you know what you're dealing with, but the fact that this team needs to be 6 goals down to start putting in an effort suggests a psychological issue much more complex than most of us are qualified for.

And I'm not just potting Melbourne here either. I saw Paddy Cripps and Jacob Weitering come out during last week and throw huge support behind their coach. They were going to make a statement to show this and look what happened next. There are some plausible excuses for things that happen in this sport as much as we hate to hear them but not being 'ready' for a game of AFL or turning up with 3/10 effort from the word go is a cardinal sin. At least Carlton had a 6 day break excuse to wheel out.

totally agree here. the running efforts, lack of intensity were laughable. We gifted gold coast easy goals playing like witches hats.

19 hours ago, manny100 said:

According to the Footy Show Melks is our only 'natural' forward. Of course Kosi a a 'natural' small forward who can excel as a mid. Think Melks will seet another 2 years. The game has changed and players can play longer than in the past.

The others just have to work really hard. Eg JVR and Petty.

Jury out on Jeffo. Pretty natural as a junior, now looking comfortable at VFL level. I think we should play him for a few more consecutive games. He needs to be exposed at the top level.

Excited for Jeffo to be given a run but he must have shots on goal. Just giving a contest is not enough. Its not like we have an elite small unit.

Forget about accuracy for a second. Harrison Petty in 33 games as a forward has had a shockingly low 41 shots at goal. 1.25 per game. To give some context, Mason Cox averages 1.4 over his 'career'.

I fully appreciate the 'our mids are hacks' (they are) and the 'we dont nove it quick enough' (we do) but this really isnt a satisfactory output. Blinkers.

Edited June 30Jun 30 by Jjrogan

13 hours ago, Deez21 said:

I'm sure @Ghostwriter enjoyed that game and first quarter performance as those of us who actually care about the direction of the club were disgusted at what we saw in that first quarter, but seeing as losing every week now makes him happy - must've been a great weekend for him

He had a ball. He thoroughly enjoyed the loss. He is now considering jumping on the misery-mongers bandwagon, is Ghostwriter. 😃

3 hours ago, Maxie said:

Obviously kicking efficiency is not a priority when you sign contracts, multi million or otherwise, at the Dees. Kozz is excused but that is damning for a few others.

It was a different competition in 2021.

The problem is Simon won't keep Petraca and Viney out of the midfield. Can't do much about Oliver.

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

entries

13 hours ago, Deez21 said:

I'm sure @Ghostwriter enjoyed that game and first quarter performance as those of us who actually care about the direction of the club were disgusted at what we saw in that first quarter, but seeing as losing every week now makes him happy - must've been a great weekend for him

G’day. Come here often then, and read everything,

Your correct. GW , he really is one who loves a loss.

56 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Kicking efficiency is such a useless stat. It rewards 15m backwards kicks that are a far worse outcome than a kick to a lead inside 50 that falls short but still might result in a score.

If you want a meaningful stat, then Wheeloratings also has Kick Rating made up of Risk Rating and Retention Rating. It’s only available for teams from what I can tell. @WheeloRatings Are the individual player kick ratings available?

Our team retention rating is 5th in the AFL so it’s not too bad overall. I’d love to know where each of our players sit compared to other teams, as that would actually be useful.

I agree that KE can be misleading - another factor is that mid forwards kick under pressure more often than say defenders so their KE stats are skewed.

But it's not useless, partic when used in relation to mid/forwards, who unlike defenders don't actually do many chip it around and backward kicks (perhaps they should) and partic when compared to players in like roles.

That list is actually a pretty good reflection of our worst kicks amongst our mid forwards (perhaps not so much of the best on that list?).

Take Tracc. In mid-May, of players with 50 or more kicks inside 50 Tracc was the worst in the AFL for that kick being marked by a teammate. I think I'm right in saying of his 50 plus kicks inside 50 only two was marked by a demon. Oliver was not much better. Sure, that's not all on them but bottom line, both are poor kicks.

Perhaps the purest stat for kicking is accuracy at goal - Tracc has kicked 13.15 season, but i shudder to think what that percentage would look like if shanks on the on the full and not making the distance were included

By contrast Koz has kicked 27.19

57 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

of all the finger pointing on demonland, those bottom 3 statistics are one of the key reasons for our struggles.

Paying A+ grade money to B- ( at best) performance.

2 minutes ago, binman said:

I agree that KE can be misleading - another factor is that mid forwards kick under pressure more often than say defenders so their KE stats are skewed.

But it's not useless, partic when used in relation to mid/forwards, who unlike defenders don't actually do many chip it around and backward kicks (perhaps they should) and partic when compared to players in like roles.

That list is actually a pretty good reflection of our worst kicks amongst our mid forwards (perhaps not so much of the best on that list?).

Take Tracc. In mid-May, of players with 50 or more kicks inside 50 Tracc was the worst in the AFL for that kick being marked by a teammate. I think I'm right in saying of his 50 plus kicks inside 50 only two was marked by a demon. Oliver was not much better. Sure, that's not all on them but bottom line, both are poor kicks.

Perhaps the purest stat for kicking is accuracy at goal - Tracc has kicked 13.15 season, but i shudder to think what that percentage would look like if shanks on the on the full and not making the distance were included

By contrast Koz has kicked 27.19

It's very dumb not to include clangers on those KE statistics. That's why I don't like us looking at it only from the POV of Goal/Behind ratio.

I like more goals per inside 50 entry.

I thought that Gold Coast came out of the blocks like a bunch of storm troopers, running hard brushed us aside like we were U18’s and they probably should have been more than 36 points ahead by quarter time. However from that point on we managed to drag ourselves back into the game and with a bit of luck in the last we could have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, despite losing Howes and Petty both concussed, Clayton bleeding like a stuck pig and a few others looking the worse for wear. By the way thanks to some on here for rubbing out our players in line with the Commentary teams biased antics. We finished strongly despite starting weakly, try not to let your disappointment colour your comments in such a negative mean manner.

3 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

I thought that Gold Coast came out of the blocks like a bunch of storm troopers, running hard brushed us aside like we were U18’s and they probably should have been more than 36 points ahead by quarter time. However from that point on we managed to drag ourselves back into the game and with a bit of luck in the last we could have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, despite losing Howes and Petty both concussed, Clayton bleeding like a stuck pig and a few others looking the worse for wear. By the way thanks to some on here for rubbing out our players in line with the Commentary teams biased antics. We finished strongly despite starting weakly, try not to let your disappointment colour your comments in such a negative mean manner.

It was effectively over by 3QT.

Lots of "garbage" time goals.

I am not sure we would have the ascendency in the last if GC had kept the pressure.

37 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

He had a ball. He thoroughly enjoyed the loss. He is now considering jumping on the misery-mongers bandwagon, is Ghostwriter. 😃

Don't do it.....climb down!

13 hours ago, Deez21 said:

I'm sure @Ghostwriter enjoyed that game and first quarter performance as those of us who actually care about the direction of the club were disgusted at what we saw in that first quarter, but seeing as losing every week now makes him happy - must've been a great weekend for him

Deez21 are you new on here are you actually a Dee supporter perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the Training Reports on DLand, your above comments are both rude and bare no resemblance to reality.

20 minutes ago, Harvey Wallbanger said:

Don't do it.....climb down!

But a bloke like me can only keep up the charade for so long. I just hope the bandwagon has room for me, it’s pretty chockers at the moment and I’m a strapping big lad.

Edited June 30Jun 30 by Ghostwriter

13 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Deez21 are you new on here are you actually a Dee supporter perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the Training Reports on DLand, your above comments are both rude and bare no resemblance to reality.

If you don't acquaint,

then show restraint...

50 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Deez21 are you new on here are you actually a Dee supporter perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the Training Reports on DLand, your above comments are both rude and bare no resemblance to reality.

Deez21 is on precisely the right forum.