7 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

...

Tom Campbell (34) One more year in the absence of young rucks

...

Sestan, Kentfield, Verrall, Woey jnr deserve another year

...

I can't see any of these players getting a game this year, or next.

Delist.

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

Maybe we'll try for Cadman again... 😉

13 marks, 19 disposals, 5.1.

Yeah, he'll be gettable!

5 hours ago, inanunda said:

Did I read right? JVR who kicked 58 goals in two seasons with consistent footy, Rivers who was almost our best midfielder when Trac was gone, and Lever the intercept (and free kick giving) machine. I cannot agree. I'd be moving on Spargo, Laurie, Fullerton, Billings, McAdam (pay him out), Petty (nothing about his game playing as a forward him a threat), Melksham and McDonald (if they want to retire, and any other lost cloggers you can think of.

I also think the club needs to tell players like Viney and Frac their midfield minutes are reducing to bring through the new wave. Don't like it then thanks and enjoy your new club.

Finally, chuck in Tim Lamb for his rediculous contracts and Alan Richardson (feels like a cheerleader).

I was worried that JVR, Riv and Lever wouldn’t have enough currency to get us anything decent. Moving everyone on from your list would barely get us a single draft pick.

We’ve got coverage for Lever (Petty, Turner, T-Mac & Adams) and I’d say Turner has waltzed past Lever in the past few weeks.

Similarly, we have coverage for Rivers wherever he plays. Trac, Clarry and Viney are all signed long term, so at least 2 will be permanently playing mid.

JVR is a little different but on 2025 output, we could play Jeffo all next year and if all but guarantee we break even, at minimum.

I’d hope the club is going hard at more forward/mid types as a high priority, they cost money/picks and we will have to lose something of value to gain in that area. Ideally, I’d like more height added to our HFF/Mid rotation.

We still need better ball users to complement Lindsay and Langford moving forward.

Edited June 14Jun 14 by BW511

trade Rivers and Spargo.

Rivers' up and under kicks epitomises the ongoing epidemic of our lack of connection and the fact that he does this consistently (not sure Oliver, Petracca and Viney have it in them at this point to change) and his part of the 2nd generation of players in the team (part of the young brigade from the granny), blows my mind. trade Rivers and replace him with someone mature and skilled by foot.

Spargo is just a weak link. in the hope that we could off load him and put some of his worth to get someone like Wade Derksen, i'd be stoked. we don't have room to have Spargo and Chandler both in the side and I'd rather Chandler.

Edited June 15Jun 15 by Mt. Dee-Maaan

6 minutes ago, Mt. Dee-Maaan said:

trade Rivers and Spargo.

Rivers' up and under kicks epitomises the ongoing epidemic of our lack of connection and the fact that he does this consistently (not sure Oliver, Petracca and Viney have it in them at this point to change) and his part of the 2nd generation of players in the team (part of the young brigade from the granny), blows my mind. trade Rivers and replace him with someone mature and skilled by foot.

Spargo is just a weak link. in the hope that we could off load him and put some of his worth to get someone like Wade Derksen, i'd be stoked. we don't have room to have Spargo and Chandler both in the side and I'd rather Chandler.

What lack of connection?

We can connect. We can't kick straight.

19 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

What lack of connection?

We can connect. We can't kick straight.

you're unaware of the ongoing issue with the quality of our forward entries Adam? goalkicking is another issue (though definitely linked). however, the core issue is the way that it comes in. or more, comes in and then leaves (with haste!).

42 minutes ago, Mt. Dee-Maaan said:

trade Rivers and Spargo.

Rivers' up and under kicks epitomises the ongoing epidemic of our lack of connection and the fact that he does this consistently (not sure Oliver, Petracca and Viney have it in them at this point to change) and his part of the 2nd generation of players in the team (part of the young brigade from the granny), blows my mind. trade Rivers and replace him with someone mature and skilled by foot.

Spargo is just a weak link. in the hope that we could off load him and put some of his worth to get someone like Wade Derksen, i'd be stoked. we don't have room to have Spargo and Chandler both in the side and I'd rather Chandler.

Rivers would get you a late first round pick in a weak draft so we'd instantly be worse off and then we'd double down and trade Spargo for a speculative third round pick and continue to be worse off. Do you even know how drafting and trading works because you ain't showing it.

I'm not against trading anyone but it has to make us better.

Edited June 15Jun 15 by Roost it far

1 hour ago, Mt. Dee-Maaan said:

you're unaware of the ongoing issue with the quality of our forward entries Adam? goalkicking is another issue (though definitely linked). however, the core issue is the way that it comes in. or more, comes in and then leaves (with haste!).

We create more than enough shots to win.

And your argument is our kicking inside 50 is bad, so get rid of our best kick inside 50?

Spargo is statistically our best kick inside 50.

spargo is an unrestricted free agent - if he gets a significant offer from another club, he may elect to leave

according to those who know, this upcoming draft is supposedly the weakest in some time - i for one doubt we will be looking to trade into it

we have a host of players who have little or no trade value and those that may have value - particularly the wa boys; van rooyen, mcvee, tholstrup, rivers, even adams at a stretch - are those that i would say we can least afford to lose as they should form the basis of our best 23 side for the bulk of the next decade

i really, really hope that kalani white picks the mfc to come to as a father-son; his final quarter in his casey debut last night was utterly thrilling to see

clearly we will, if things go our way, pick toby sinnema as an nga pick, while our 2026 nga pick marcus prasad looks like an even more exciting option

so, 2026 and 2027 first round picks? sell em to flagmantle - i want dogga jackson back

likely delisting candidates:

• billings

• hore

• fullarton

• woewodin

• henderson

• culley

billings plays a role as a vfl player but should never play for the mfc again - we have better options as a mid rotation - while hore is unlucky that he's out of contract and is constantly injured, while fullarton is just completely uncompetitive

possible retirements:

• melksham

• plugger mac

• campbell

personally i would keep all three on the list; possibly shift campbell to the rookie list in lieu of verrall or let him retire IF we get dog back from out west

trade options:

• oliver

• laurie

• sparrow

• fritsch

i think laurie offers no value to being on the list as a primary inside mid; he should want and demand a trade elsewhere where he can try and get more opportunity at another club - i personally have doubts as to whether he is good enough to make it in that role in an afl team, but he definitely deserves the opportunity

i wouldn't trade oliver or fritsch, as primarily i don't think we'd get value for them (e.g. if the baggers really wanted fritsch, i would want harry mckay in a straight swap - they both offer the same scoreboard impact, but fritsch is a helluva lot less costly on the cap) while sparrow plays a role for us as that small pressure forward / mid, but he frustates me so much with his inconsistency in the role

i don't think the likes of salem, petty will realise enough 'value' in a trade sense for us to part with them

it's hard to see how we are going to get involved in the meat market that is the trade period this year unless one of fritsch, oliver, petracca demands a trade

Edited June 15Jun 15 by whatwhat say what

Delist - Hore, Woey, Fullarton, Laurie (or trade) McAdam

Trade/FA options - Salem, Oliver, Fritsch, Spargo, Laurie (or delist)

Retire - Melks, Tmac, Campbell (all three are maybe)

Players too look at -

Jackson

Bergman

Lord

Derksen

Callum brown

Would a M.rosas or Arthur Jones be worth a risk? Both out of contract

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Rivers would get you a late first round pick in a weak draft so we'd instantly be worse off and then we'd double down and trade Spargo for a speculative third round pick and continue to be worse off. Do you even know how drafting and trading works because you ain't showing it.

I'm not against trading anyone but it has to make us better.

exactly. and with that late first round pick (and maybe a future first, or maybe even just with that late first) we could get someone that kicks the ball better in the same age demographic. are you not aware of how the AFL trading system works? no need to patronise me. we move on a player and hopefully get to replace that player (e.g. Rivers) with a player of the same basic skill level (and hopefully in our case, someone with added attributes/something our list is missing). Rivers streaming forward to bomb it to the opposition consistently is not helping us. much rather him in the backline and if he doesn't fit there anymore, move him on.

you are greatly overstating Spargo's skill/worth to our team. just because he can execute dinky short passes inside 50 does not mean much. its more of an indictment on the skills of the rest of our list. look at where he sticks up in the league. he is not an impressive player. again, move him on and get someone that has those skills (and hopefully kicks more goals). he is a small forward remember. he does not impact our attack enough. its not a new suggestion i am making here..

Edited June 15Jun 15 by Mt. Dee-Maaan

This will be controversial but what the hell….for me Trac has been ineffective for some time (poor disposal, hasn’t been able to improve goal kicking, always fumbles, can’t tackle, poor decision making and no leadership) and it is time to get the best we can for him on the trade table which is more than we will get for any others mentioned as tradeable at this stage - I.e. he delivers little, costs a lot but has the most collateral.

Do it respectfully and discreetly, not an open auction, but in conversation with him as he has made it known he is willing to move.

2 minutes ago, Blue-and-red said:

This will be controversial but what the hell….for me Trac has been ineffective for some time (poor disposal, hasn’t been able to improve goal kicking, always fumbles, can’t tackle, poor decision making and no leadership) and it is time to get the best we can for him on the trade table which is more than we will get for any others mentioned as tradeable at this stage - I.e. he delivers little, costs a lot but has the most collateral.

Do it respectfully and discreetly, not an open auction, but in conversation with him as he has made it known he is willing to move.

Not controversial. All facts.

3 minutes ago, Blue-and-red said:

This will be controversial but what the hell….for me Trac has been ineffective for some time (poor disposal, hasn’t been able to improve goal kicking, always fumbles, can’t tackle, poor decision making and no leadership) and it is time to get the best we can for him on the trade table which is more than we will get for any others mentioned as tradeable at this stage - I.e. he delivers little, costs a lot but has the most collateral.

Do it respectfully and discreetly, not an open auction, but in conversation with him as he has made it known he is willing to move.

the issue remains that he is, seemingly, only willing to go somewhere, and that's to the filth

i doubt they have anything to offer us, and will make us pay for the privilege of him playing for them

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

spargo is an unrestricted free agent - if he gets a significant offer from another club, he may elect to leave

according to those who know, this upcoming draft is supposedly the weakest in some time - i for one doubt we will be looking to trade into it

we have a host of players who have little or no trade value and those that may have value - particularly the wa boys; van rooyen, mcvee, tholstrup, rivers, even adams at a stretch - are those that i would say we can least afford to lose as they should form the basis of our best 23 side for the bulk of the next decade

i really, really hope that kalani white picks the mfc to come to as a father-son; his final quarter in his casey debut last night was utterly thrilling to see

clearly we will, if things go our way, pick toby sinnema as an nga pick, while our 2026 nga pick marcus prasad looks like an even more exciting option

so, 2026 and 2027 first round picks? sell em to flagmantle - i want dogga jackson back

likely delisting candidates:

• billings

• hore

• fullarton

• woewodin

• henderson

• culley

billings plays a role as a vfl player but should never play for the mfc again - we have better options as a mid rotation - while hore is unlucky that he's out of contract and is constantly injured, while fullarton is just completely uncompetitive

possible retirements:

• melksham

• plugger mac

• campbell

personally i would keep all three on the list; possibly shift campbell to the rookie list in lieu of verrall or let him retire IF we get dog back from out west

trade options:

• oliver

• laurie

• sparrow

• fritsch

i think laurie offers no value to being on the list as a primary inside mid; he should want and demand a trade elsewhere where he can try and get more opportunity at another club - i personally have doubts as to whether he is good enough to make it in that role in an afl team, but he definitely deserves the opportunity

i wouldn't trade oliver or fritsch, as primarily i don't think we'd get value for them (e.g. if the baggers really wanted fritsch, i would want harry mckay in a straight swap - they both offer the same scoreboard impact, but fritsch is a helluva lot less costly on the cap) while sparrow plays a role for us as that small pressure forward / mid, but he frustates me so much with his inconsistency in the role

i don't think the likes of salem, petty will realise enough 'value' in a trade sense for us to part with them

it's hard to see how we are going to get involved in the meat market that is the trade period this year unless one of fritsch, oliver, petracca demands a trade

No Petraca instead of Oliver as a trade option?

Just now, ElDiablo14 said:

No Petraca instead of Oliver as a trade option?

he seems so determined to go to the one place, and they don't have the capacity to get the deal done

i don't know how, given both player's contracts, you can trade either of them

oliver puts in more effort, petracca has greater flexibility

to-mato / tom-ato

Scary that Tim Lamb is in control of the club’s destiny at such a crucial time.

28 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

to-mato / tom-ato

It would be even worse if they were po-tato / pot-ato.

I don't post a lot, but gave my assessment of the MFC list in the "Tim Lamb" thread on September 16, 2024

"Two key factors when assessing players are ability and competitiveness. The last few years MFC has made mistakes in talent identification. Once you've recruited players, you also need to develop them. Unfortunately, no amount of development will help E graders (non-competitive is non-competitive). It is very rare that a new young player comes in and is an A grader (Caleb Windsor). The others generally start at D until they develop physically and mentally and adjust to the step up to AFL level (speed of the game, team defence, running patterns etc.). The MFC list needs growth from the D and C graders, and hopefully adds another A grader with its first pick in the 2024 national draft. Losing Angus Brayshaw and Alex Neal-Bullen leaves a void at the top end of the talent list. Whoever is in charge of recruitment and development, there is a hell of a lot of work to do".

I will update this assessment by comparing my end of last season view (in brackets) with my view now. I've removed players who were no longer on the MFC list at the end of 2024 (BTW, I ranked both Brayshaw and Neal-Bullen as B), and obviously included the 2025 additions.

U = untried, x = not on MFC list in 2024, N/A = can't compare with 2024.

Summary: 20 = unchanged, 8 = below previous level, 3 = above previous level.

Based on 2025 performances:

A = 4, B = 7, C = 8, D = 15, E = 4, U = 7 (total 45)

No Name Ability and competitiveness Change Notes

11 Gawn, Max (A) A 0

1 May, Steven (A) A 0

13 Oliver, Clayton (A) B -1 Well documented reasons.

5 Petracca, Christian (A) B -1 Finding way back after major injury in 2024.

36 Pickett, Kysaiah (A) A 0

6 Windsor, Caleb (A) D -3 Interrupted pre-season/season, second year blues, played out of his best position, could still be OK.

15 Langdon, Ed (B) B 0

8 Lever, Jake (B) C -1 Injury interrupted season.

35 Petty, Harrison (B) C -1 Out of form, but could still be OK.

24 Rivers, Trent (B) C -1 Out of form, but could still be OK.

3 Salem, Christian (B) B 0

2 van Rooyen, Jacob (B) D -2 Out of form, but could still be OK.

7 Viney, Jack (B) B 0

17 Bowey, Jake (C) A 2 Should be in top 3 in B&F at this stage.

37 Chandler, Kade  (C) B 1 Should be in top 5 in B&F at this stage.

31 Fritsch, Bayley (C) C 0

25 McDonald, Tom (C) C 0

4 McVee, Judd (C) C 0

18 Melksham, Jake (C) C 0

9 Spargo, Charlie (C) D -1 Coming back from long term injury.

32 Sparrow, Tom (C) C 0

10 Turner, Daniel (C) B 1 Developing into a valuable key position swingman.

41 Brown, Kynan (D) D 0

27 Hore, Marty (D) D 0

22 Howes, Blake (D) D 0

16 Laurie, Bailey (D) D 0

45 Moniz-Wakefield, Andy (D) D 0

12 Tholstrup, Koltyn (D) D 0

40 Woewodin, Taj (D) D 0

14 Billings, Jack (E) E 0

23 McAdam, Shane (E) E 0

26 Adams, Jed (U) U N/A

44 Kentfield, Luker (U) U N/A

33 Fullarton, Tom (U) E N/A Non-competitive.

21 Jefferson, Matthew (U) D N/A Talented, but a lot of work to do. Could get to B.

38 Sestan, Oliver (U) U N/A

28 Verrall, Will (U) U N/A

29 Campbell, Tom (x) U N/A

30 Sharp, Harry (x) D N/A Has a go, but a lot of work to do.

19 Langford, Harvey (x) D N/A Talented, but a lot of work to do. Could get to A.

20 Lindsay, Xavier (x) D N/A Talented, but a lot of work to do. Could get to C (Zak Fisher vibes).

42 Johnson, Aidan (x) D N/A Gives effort and aggression. A battler.

39 Mentha, Ricky (x) U N/A

43 Henderson, Jack (x) E N/A Non-competitive.

46 Culley, Jai (x) U N/A

Ladder: Finished 14th at end of 2024, currently 15th at the end of round 14 2025. We are a bottom 5 team.

Give all the untried players a go in the remainder of 2025 to see if they bring anything to the table.

Delist: Billings, McAdam, Fullarton, Henderson, Hore.

Retire/trade: around another 5 more players.

I reckon you need to turn over 20 players in the next 2 seasons to have a chance to turn it around.

Stop bringing in non-competitive players, and bring in players who are good decision makers/ball users and who can compete (win one on one contests, bring the ball to ground when not in a position to mark the ball etc.).

It is also time for a new development coach (at a minimum). To move up the ladder it is essential to get growth from the D and C graders.

Time for Tim Lamb to earn his way.

JHF and Reid for Laurie and Billings

Get it done

On 13/06/2025 at 17:47, rpfc said:

These are tough to do because we may need to move on salary ($$$) as opposed to list spots.

Underperforming players on a bit with trade currency will be looked at.

Does Oliver still have currency?

29 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Does Oliver still have currency?

zero in my view

Long contracts are development killers

13 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

the issue remains that he is, seemingly, only willing to go somewhere, and that's to the filth

i doubt they have anything to offer us, and will make us pay for the privilege of him playing for them

Why would the filthy try and replace Sidebottom or Pendles who are elite kicks and decision makers for someone who isn't?

Our only hope is they can't resist the brand

4 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Why would the filthy try and replace Sidebottom or Pendles who are elite kicks and decision makers for someone who isn't?

Our only hope is they can't resist the brand

Why not play them all?

Imagine Collingwood with De Goey and Petracca rotating with each other from forward to midfield. Nightmare stuff.

19 minutes ago, jackaub said:

zero in my view

Long contracts are development killers

Salary dump then.