Just now, DeeSpencer said:

Oliver is horrendous with the ball.

Tracc doesn’t run and his tackling efforts are a joke.

We need to move off both for just league average midfielders if we can find them.

These 2 are making us worse.

Poor JV know his limitations but his effort and tackling are second to none.

On the other hand Petracca and Oliver...

Just now, ElDiablo14 said:

Poor JV know his limitations but his effort and tackling are second to none.

On the other hand Petracca and Oliver...

If Viney would actually play to his limitations and with more mids that gave balance around the ball he’d be fine. I’m not overly happy with him either! But I can see the effort that’s for sure.

It's just so depressing that our two best midfielders of this century have regressed so rapidly in such a short amount of time. Even last year I was horrified at the thought of either of them leaving but now it just doesn't phase me.

It's a shame because they both looked great in the practice game against Freo.

Next year midfield. I think the club know this is the direction. They cannot just let kids in there atm otherwise we will be absolutely smashed every week.

Langford, Rivers, Kozzy. Rotations by: JV, Sparrow, Kolt

Wings: Windsor, XL. Rotations: Chin, Langdon Sestan(?)

Trac can either PO or spend the rest of his career in the Forward Line.

Oliver: GONESKY.

Edited July 6Jul 6 by GS_1905

if we start next season with both of these on the list we're not a serious football club. fritsch needs to go as well.

bite the bullet, take our medicine and start preparing for our next cycle of success

1 minute ago, GS_1905 said:

Next year midfield. I think the club know this is the direction. They cannot just let kids in there atm otherwise we will be absolutely smashed every week.

Langford, Rivers, Kozzy. Rotations by: JV, Sparrow, Kolt

Wings: Windsor, XL. Rotations: Chin, Langdon Sestan(?)

Trac can either PO or spend the rest of his career in the Forward Line.

Oliver: GONESKY.

I just love seeing people treat our premiership champions with honour and respect.

Tracc is still struggling. He will come good. I thought Oliver's first quarter was excellent - his quick hands and his vision were back. But then he was asked to tag. I don't agree with that. Leave that to JV or Chin.

17 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

I just love seeing people treat our premiership champions with honour and respect.

Tracc is still struggling. He will come good. I thought Oliver's first quarter was excellent - his quick hands and his vision were back. But then he was asked to tag. I don't agree with that. Leave that to JV or Chin.

People need to move on from the 2021 premiership, that's long gone and we won't win another premiership with the same core of players.

We all thought they were destined for many great things after 2021, sadly it couldn't be.

We just can't keep kidding ourselves that somehow things will work out and we'll have the 2021 Melbourne. Just my opinion.

Oliver is the easy target but Trac is every bit as bad at the moment.

I’d be more inclined to move Trac on, I think after last year’s antics he’s shown he’s never going to be a team focused player and you can get away with it when you are winning awards, not so much when you are meh

Edited July 6Jul 6 by BW511

35 minutes ago, BDA said:

if we start next season with both of these on the list we're not a serious football club. fritsch needs to go as well.

bite the bullet, take our medicine and start preparing for our next cycle of success

I agree. I'd be looking to build a midfield around VIney. Get Viney to lead the younger brigade, he'd add protection, and show them how a leader applies themselves. There is a reason North wanted him.

Excuse me . . . I've gotta log-off now and watch Goody's pressa.

3 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Oliver is the easy target but Trac is every bit as bad at the moment.

I’d be more inclined to move Trac on, I think after last year’s antics he’s shown he’s never going to be a team focused player and you can get away with it when you are winning awards, not so much when you are meh

I'd move both on. Try prize out a promising young talent from another side.

Oliver is apparently horrendous with the ball, yet he was going at 82% efficiency while tagging. He had 23 touches, Dawson had 25.

Trac also had 23 touches but went at 65% and had ZERO clearances.

The blind hate for Clarry and the leniency given to Trac just blows my mind. I know Clarry was a naughty boy, but Trac nearly blew up the club last year with the trade debacle.

Both are playing well below their best and well below what their salary demands.

9 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Oliver is apparently horrendous with the ball, yet he was going at 82% efficiency while tagging. He had 23 touches, Dawson had 25.

Trac also had 23 touches but went at 65% and had ZERO clearances.

The blind hate for Clarry and the leniency given to Trac just blows my mind. I know Clarry was a naughty boy, but Trac nearly blew up the club last year with the trade debacle.

Both are playing well below their best and well below what their salary demands.

3 frees against, 5 turnovers and of those 23 disposals, 16 were handballs.

He also had 15 uncontested possessions.

Meaning 82% efficiency is expected from that makeup.

I mean for god's sake, scratch the surface a little here.

He is absolutely shocking at taking care when disposing of the ball and has been for years. No care when kicking. Use your eyes for christ sake.

Just now, Howard_Grimes said:

3 frees against, 5 turnovers and of those 23 disposals, 16 were handballs.

He also had 15 uncontested possessions.

Meaning 82% efficiency is expected from that makeup.

I mean for god's sake, scratch the surface a little here.

He is absolutely shocking at taking care when disposing of the ball and has been for years. No care when kicking. Use your eyes for christ sake.

I never said he had a good game, I just pointed out that if you’re going to get stuck into Clarry for his ball use, have a look at Trac as well. Both are playing well below their respective best.

For an inside mid, Clarry’s disposal is at or above league average. Go back and look at the post I wrote a few weeks back comparing him to the best inside mids in the game. His average disposal has always been at around the high 60s, even at his peak.

He just isn’t winning enough of the ball, or hitting the contest at speed like he used to. He is also playing a defensive role now, which is very different to how he used to play.

But likewise Trac isn’t winning the ball like he used to, or laying tackles like he used to, or getting to contests like he used to.

Both need to be held accountable for our downfall, but Trac as a leader even more so. He should be pushing the side forward. He demanded the club got better, but has he?

And I won’t bring up his shambolic goal kicking skills. Laughable really that he’s the player I least want to see going for goal. I rather Maxy from outside 50.

Edited July 6Jul 6 by Jaded No More

Looking at this from a different perspective -

If you’re a club who may be interested in Trac or Oliver, who’s the more attractive proposition? A former Norm Smith winner recovering from a horrible injury, or a former gun midfielder who made his own downfall?

Trac is a far safer option and is going to have more trade currency than Claz. That might be the decisive factor in which of them stays or goes

1 hour ago, GS_1905 said:

Next year midfield. I think the club know this is the direction. They cannot just let kids in there atm otherwise we will be absolutely smashed every week.

Langford, Rivers, Kozzy. Rotations by: JV, Sparrow, Kolt

Wings: Windsor, XL. Rotations: Chin, Langdon Sestan(?)

Trac can either PO or spend the rest of his career in the Forward Line.

Oliver: GONESKY.

Petracca and Oliver to be replaced by Sparrow and Tholstup? Is this an attempt at comedy? Our problem is not Petracca and Oliver, despite their relatively modest output (perfectly explicable in CPa case), but because we have some very mediocre players who wouldn't get a game in a good side. One is Sparrow. Another is Tholstrup, though let's hold off on wiping him for another year. Jefferson? Clearly nowhere near it. Not up to it. Margins are fine in this caper. Replace those 3 with effective contributors and we'rea different side.

3 minutes ago, deegirl said:

Looking at this from a different perspective -

If you’re a club who may be interested in Trac or Oliver, who’s the more attractive proposition? A former Norm Smith winner recovering from a horrible injury, or a former gun midfielder who made his own downfall?

Trac is a far safer option and is going to have more trade currency than Claz. That might be the decisive factor in which of them stays or goes

Clarry, if he goes to Geelong, will win a Brownlow.

Bookmark it.

17 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I never said he had a good game, I just pointed out that if you’re going to get stuck into Clarry for his ball use, have a look at Trac as well. Both are playing well below their respective best.

For an inside mid, Clarry’s disposal is at or above league average. Go back and look at the post I wrote a few weeks back comparing him to the best inside mids in the game. His average disposal has always been at around the high 60s, even at his peak.

He just isn’t winning enough of the ball, or hitting the contest at speed like he used to. He is also playing a defensive role now, which is very different to how he used to play.

But likewise Trac isn’t winning the ball like he used to, or laying tackles like he used to, or getting to contests like he used to.

Both need to be held accountable for our downfall, but Trac as a leader even more so. He should be pushing the side forward. He demanded the club got better, but has he?

And I won’t bring up his shambolic goal kicking skills. Laughable really that he’s the player I least want to see going for goal. I rather Maxy from outside 50.

Petracca and Oliver aren't responsible for our position ... though they propped us up for years, along with Gawn. It's the several other players who haven't lifted, have stagnated or gone backwards. That, plus we have 3 or 4 players who aren't much good.

The sledge Petracca/Oliver brigade are wrong- headed.

2 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

I’d be letting both go tbh. Neither are going to get back to their best and won’t help us get back up the ladder.

Unfortunately their trade value is at the lowest point, but it will free up some cap space.

so why didn't we trade when hot Club over invested in thee two believing their own bs

I cannot see Trac leaving and who is on the list to step up and replace him? The only issue at the moment is that the output of Clayton & Trac doesn't match the size of their contract. Neither are performing at the elite level. Trac I can see improvement and I think he will be better next season. Clayton is only a shadow of himself but he is a Melbourne person and if it was me I would be talking to my manager about re-negotiating my contract, maybe even taking a pay cut commensurate with his current output. That woulkd certainly take some of the sting out of this vitriol

24 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Clarry, if he goes to Geelong, will win a Brownlow.

Bookmark it.

I will win a brownlow before Clarry enough said

26 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Clarry, if he goes to Geelong, will win a Brownlow.

Bookmark it.

I can’t argue, could totally see it happening

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Excuse me . . . I've gotta log-off now and watch Goody's pressa.

Good luck with that

I really dont know how you can do it

congrats

Just now, jackaub said:

Good luck with that

I really dont know how you can do it

congrats

Definition of self torture.

1 hour ago, BDA said:

if we start next season with both of these on the list we're not a serious football club. fritsch needs to go as well.

bite the bullet, take our medicine and start preparing for our next cycle of success

This

I would be excising

Brutal and cold