17 hours ago, picket fence said:

Neither will be at the club in 26, i'm predicting Tracc to Carlton and Clarry, to the Cattery!

There is no way Carlton are getting another inside mid

I'm for keeping Oliver.

Guy is an inside monster and can be again.

Tracs heart is finished.

Happy to kick back on his $$$, make tic toks and wish he was at a bigger club.

49 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

Not sure that's the case. If memory serves he was in the leading pack in last year's Brownlow prior to his season ending injury

You're correct. Trac polled in 7 of his 14 games and had 16 votes prior to getting hurt.

Oliver basically needs to completely reinvent his game the way Rowell has. Not sure he has that in him. Never been a very good kick.

5 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Oliver basically needs to completely reinvent his game the way Rowell has. Not sure he has that in him. Never been a very good kick.

The Rowell comparison is a good one

There was a great article from earlier in the year where he essentially said he got fitter than ever in the preseason to give himself more of an outside game

He was already a contest and clearance beast but can now hurt you on the outside with his run and ability to get from contest to contest

I’d be telling Clarry that he needs to have the preseason of his life if he wants to stay in the red and blue next year, because we can’t keep carrying him if he’s going to plod around like he has for the past two years

4 minutes ago, demoncat said:

He was already a contest and clearance beast but can now hurt you on the outside with his run and ability to get from contest to contest

I could easily be imagining this, but didn't Oliver go through a similar shift five or six years ago?

I remember (possibly in full Mandela Effect mode) the media and supporters talking about him going from very promising young insider to potential champion thanks to his bursting run and link play.

28 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I could easily be imagining this, but didn't Oliver go through a similar shift five or six years ago?

I remember (possibly in full Mandela Effect mode) the media and supporters talking about him going from very promising young insider to potential champion thanks to his bursting run and link play.

Yes he did but that was before his hamstring… which must have been major as he hasn’t had burst speed since. I can see a world where he gets that burst speed back just needs a full and clear pre season.

55 minutes ago, demoncat said:

The Rowell comparison is a good one

There was a great article from earlier in the year where he essentially said he got fitter than ever in the preseason to give himself more of an outside game

He was already a contest and clearance beast but can now hurt you on the outside with his run and ability to get from contest to contest

I’d be telling Clarry that he needs to have the preseason of his life if he wants to stay in the red and blue next year, because we can’t keep carrying him if he’s going to plod around like he has for the past two years

trouble is, you can only get so fit in 1 pre-season. Oliver was meant to go on a fitness camp last, which never eventuated. Im not sure what that didnt happen, but on the surface may indidcate that he doesnt have the drive anymore to push himself beyond the limit.

Our entire midfield need to completely reinvent themselves fitness wise if we are to play the transition game. In so many of our games this year , our midfielders have been completley out of position and unable to keep pace with the game. Its why we get scored so heavily against as team rebound right through our zone.

Agree with the observations of Clayton.

Clayton would get so much of the ball because he made it to more contests than any other player of his type and still had the endurance, power and burst to get the ball and get it out.

Now he doesn't get to as many contests because he doens't have the endurance and doesn't get the ball out as much because he has less burst.

He could get some of it back though & still be a big contributor. Maybe not at a B&F/top 5 Brownlow level though I think.

If Butters was gettable, next year for example.

Should we do everything in our power to get him and unload both Petraca and Oliver?

2 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

If Butters was gettable, next year for example.

Should we do everything in our power to get him and unload both Petraca and Oliver?

1000%

Reckon we’re going to be pretty far back in the queue though for any players looking to return to Vic (unless Buckley has us bouncing up the ladder next year 🤣)

7 minutes ago, demoncat said:

1000%

Reckon we’re going to be pretty far back in the queue though for any players looking to return to Vic (unless Buckley has us bouncing up the ladder next year 🤣)

Butters, Langford and Pickett. Sounds pretty good.

Maybe that's our way to lure him, come play next to a future star and a super star.

My view of Petracca has changed and I know some of you will hate this, but I don't see Petracca as a "consummate professional".

I make allowance for his injury and recovery, but my altered opinion is based on all the following: the wantaway goings-on, the disparaging of the club that discouraged trades in, the negative body language, the selfishness and the horrible field and goal kicking that never improves.

Seriously he's not a good forward, I think he adds even less when he's playing there. He may take a few marks but I bet nobody is confident when he's lining up for a set shot. He's only getting a run up front because his output is down and we're short of players who can actually play forward.

If you demand so much money that you cost the team in potential talent then you have to prove you're worth it. Max provides great service in the ruck for Christian to hack if forward to a static contest against multiple tall defenders. Then it comes skating back past him through the corridor.

Most of these aspects were evident before Arseknee Moore nailed him with what's becoming trademark sniping. Back then the rest of the team and in particular our stingy defence could contain and conceal it.

He really went down in my opinion after all his whinging and undermining the club. Roffey, Pert or Goody didn't knee him in the spleen. Why blame them for badly handling the attack/carelessness by a Collingwood scumbag?

At this stage I'd be happy for him to show some maturity and honour either by proving his worth or by lowering his demands and going elsewhere on reasonable terms.

6 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

My view of Petracca has changed and I know some of you will hate this, but I don't see Petracca as a "consummate professional".

I make allowance for his injury and recovery, but my altered opinion is based on all the following: the wantaway goings-on, the disparaging of the club that discouraged trades in, the negative body language, the selfishness and the horrible field and goal kicking that never improves.

Seriously he's not a good forward, I think he adds even less when he's playing there. He may take a few marks but I bet nobody is confident when he's lining up for a set shot. He's only getting a run up front because his output is down and we're short of players who can actually play forward.

If you demand so much money that you cost the team in potential talent then you have to prove you're worth it. Max provides great service in the ruck for Christian to hack if forward to a static contest against multiple tall defenders. Then it comes skating back past him through the corridor.

Most of these aspects were evident before Arseknee Moore nailed him with what's becoming trademark sniping. Back then the rest of the team and in particular our stingy defence could contain and conceal it.

He really went down in my opinion after all his whinging and undermining the club. Roffey, Pert or Goody didn't knee him in the spleen. Why blame them for badly handling the attack/carelessness by a Collingwood scumbag?

At this stage I'd be happy for him to show some maturity and honour either by proving his worth or by lowering his demands and going elsewhere on reasonable terms.

He was in the up until 2022.

Then 2023 onwards he started to trend down, too many distractions off the field and the start of the selfishness.

I think supporters need to look closer at Oliver.

Yeh, he's fitter than last year. So his 'impact' at a contest, ability to get to more and his defensive running are better than last year. Which is a positive.

But when you hear posters say he an 'inside monster' and he's getting back to his 'inside best', what exactly does that mean?

Well. It's all well and good being able to win the pill in a contested situation. And Oliver has improved on that this year.

What he hasn't improved on, one single bit, is his ability to distribute the ball either cleanly or to the right player. And many times, the ball simply bobbles out from his hands when he is tackled which doesn't even count on a stats sheet. Yet it is taken away by an oppo player from inside to out and anything can happen.

This is not about [censored] on a player. It's about supporters actually watching closely and the club taking this seriously. If you look at the best inside mids in the comp, their ability to distribute the ball cleanly and to the right player under high pressure is there.

At the peak of Oliver's powers, he could also do this. I'm talking handball. But now? No. Again, please go through replays. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the amount of times he doesn't grab it cleanly or he handballs blindly etc is just wild.

And given his lack of positional flexibility, this is a massive issue. And a huge decision needs to be made at the end of the year.

Because regardless of the bias on here. You cannot be paying that amount of money for a player with that kind of output going forward. Take the goggles off.

Trac is a different case. More dynamic. Different reasons as to why he's had a down year. More positional flexibility and someone who I think we keep.

Oliver and Viney going forward with modern day footy in '26?

Christ.

16 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

My view of Petracca has changed and I know some of you will hate this, but I don't see Petracca as a "consummate professional".

I make allowance for his injury and recovery, but my altered opinion is based on all the following: the wantaway goings-on, the disparaging of the club that discouraged trades in, the negative body language, the selfishness and the horrible field and goal kicking that never improves.

Seriously he's not a good forward, I think he adds even less when he's playing there. He may take a few marks but I bet nobody is confident when he's lining up for a set shot. He's only getting a run up front because his output is down and we're short of players who can actually play forward.

If you demand so much money that you cost the team in potential talent then you have to prove you're worth it. Max provides great service in the ruck for Christian to hack if forward to a static contest against multiple tall defenders. Then it comes skating back past him through the corridor.

Most of these aspects were evident before Arseknee Moore nailed him with what's becoming trademark sniping. Back then the rest of the team and in particular our stingy defence could contain and conceal it.

He really went down in my opinion after all his whinging and undermining the club. Roffey, Pert or Goody didn't knee him in the spleen. Why blame them for badly handling the attack/carelessness by a Collingwood scumbag?

At this stage I'd be happy for him to show some maturity and honour either by proving his worth or by lowering his demands and going elsewhere on reasonable terms.

When things went awry last year with the club he wanted to bail out. That’s the level of his investment. And some posters want him as captain.

I went right up the top of the city end for the second half of the Hawks game and had a great view down the ground.

Their patterns were slicing at angles and bypassing players guarding ground, but their passing had a hypnotic quality like an 80s arcade computer game.

When the hawks kicked to their team mates it reminded me of when the pinball flippers or the paddle in bricks became magnetic and the ball just stuck. It seemed like we couldn't mark anything unless it was chipped around uncontested in our defensive 50.

I've posted this on the TFA board, but it's probably better suited to this specific thread:

(18 August 2025) Jon Ralph on Petracca and Oliver:

Petracca: The Demons say he’s happy and invested. The rumours won’t die. In any other year with a star-studded draft when clubs have so much cap space you could see a situation where a rival in the window gave up multiple first-round picks to secure his services. But while the Demons have conceded they won’t contend for the flag next year — football boss Alan Richardson is on the record on ABC Radio making that clear despite Simon Goodwin’s belief in this list — they also want to keep their star player. They are using the example of Collingwood, which didn’t tip out its veterans and saw them thrive in the 2023 premiership year. So there will be speculation but there isn’t a real suitor yet.

Oliver: Stay with me here. Oliver has looked like he has had his power back in recent weeks. Averaging 5.7 clearances and 5.6 tackles along with 25 possessions this year, his disposal (below average) has let him down badly. But in recent weeks he at least had his spring back in the contest. There aren’t suitors for him given his huge wage even though he was interested early this year in a move to a club like Geelong. So with Oliver unlikely to take a monster pay cut it seems likely a new coach will have to find ways to get the best out of him given the Demons midfield has still been trounced too often this year.

On 05/08/2025 at 22:40, KozzyCan said:

I think Goodwin raising it was pretty telling. It's clearly a sore point. When it comes to recruitment and player retention, training facilities matter.

Clearly played a MASSIVE part along with our cultural, internal issues and salary cap.

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by YesitwasaWin4theAges

1 minute ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

I reckon Casey and our Salary cap played a MAJOR part in not attracting players of substance after the GF during our run of 22 to 24.

Weirdly, Casey didn't seem to be an albatross around our necks between 2014-2018. That was when we brought in Vince, Cross, Melksham, Hibberd, Lever, May etc. Were we training more at Gosch's then? I don't think club officials publicly moaning about how bad our base is really helped our cause, and the lack of progress finding a new home has caused a lot of frustration internally.

I think the other thing that has held our recruitment back is looking like a constant basketcase off-field for four years.

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by KozzyCan

4 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

I reckon Casey and our Salary cap played a MAJOR part in not attracting players of substance after the GF during our run of 22 to 24.

I think that just becomes convenient narrative when you're not exuding success.

If we were nailing it on the field all if that noise would fade to little.

When times are bad... apologists look around.

Would we be a better club with better facilities? An entirely plausible stance. Do our current facilities stop anyone developing, stop any coach from coaching ?? No

What goes on between ears.... is still between ears.

19 hours ago, demoncat said:

  19 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Oliver basically needs to completely reinvent his game the way Rowell has

He credits eating grass to his turnaround.

Just now, beelzebub said:

I think that just becomes convenient narrative when you're not exuding success.

If we were nailing it on the field all if that noise would fade to little.

When times are bad... apologists look around.

Would we be a better club with better facilities? An entirely plausible stance. Do our current facilities stop anyone developing, stop any coach from coaching ?? No

What goes on between ears.... is still between ears.

I think what matters is whether the club can embrace the facilities or not. It seems like most of our people have been unhappy with their current lot.

Similar to the Saints at Seaford. Interesting experiment to see how Hawthorn go 15 minutes up the road in Dingley.

2 minutes ago, The Jackson FIX said:

He credits eating grass to his turnaround.

So does my dog when he's feeling ill.

21 hours ago, Demons11 said:

There is no way Carlton are getting another inside mid

You’re using logic when quoting PF, they don’t go together