1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Can be - but is the truth a tad damning to realise?

2021 was amazing

Footy moves on

How the [censored] is this at all related to what @Dee Boys correctly said?

We lost to the clear flag favourites by a point in a game we played well in (this is what is getting lost in the result - yes, we suck at close games and we still waste forward half territory, but we simultaneously neutralised Collingwood’s ball movement and generated enough supply of our own, to an extent maybe 1-2 other sides have done all year).

The idea that yesterday is the catalyst for needing a rebuild/major change is insane.

If anything, yesterday is confirmation that this side can play good enough football to challenge, but that rounds 1-5 have snookered any chance we have of making finals.

I think Clarry and Trac are getting back to their best.

I wanted to share some highlights that just popped up in my YouTube.

Spend 15 minutes of your time watching this and see how many times Clarry creates scores with his kicking. In a high pressure, big final.

I think he's getting back there.

For reference, Josh Daicos had the most touches on the ground yesterday with 34, 4 turnovers, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements (a lot of easy uncontested possessions behind the ball). Clarry had second most touches on the ground with 30, 4 turnovers, 1 goal assist and 6 score involvements. If Daicos was good yesterday, so was Clarry. And they were.

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

How the [censored] is this at all related to what @Dee Boys correctly said?

We lost to the clear flag favourites by a point in a game we played well in (this is what is getting lost in the result - yes, we suck at close games and we still waste forward half territory, but we simultaneously neutralised Collingwood’s ball movement and generated enough supply of our own, to an extent maybe 1-2 other sides have done all year).

The idea that yesterday is the catalyst for needing a rebuild/major change is insane.

If anything, yesterday is confirmation that this side can play good enough football to challenge, but that rounds 1-5 have snookered any chance we have of making finals.

That’s all correct but next year Gawn and May will be a year older, other competitors will have improved so we have to add talent to the list. From reports it’s a weak, compromised draft and our first pick is in the 20’s. We simply have to add players with elite disposal. So we’re likely to need to trade one or more players. For mine Rivers and Sparrow are the ones. Of course I’d only ever trade them if it improved our team. Of course I want to keep them but we need clean ball users. Imagine if Petracca and Oliver had better disposal, yesterday would be a 4-5 goal win. That’s what we need to be aiming for.

33 minutes ago, Dee Boys said:

We just lost to the runaway leader of the competition by a point in a game where we were the better side for long periods of time.

Is there stuff we need to work on to get better? Absolutely no doubt.

But posts like this are just hyperbolic nonsense.

You don't have to sell the whole list but a thorough review of where this team is going forward is much needed.

As I said before. Can we still carry JV, Clarry and Petracca in our midfield? Based on their inability to properly dispose of the ball. As much as they are contested football beasts.

26 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

How the [censored] is this at all related to what @Dee Boys correctly said?

We lost to the clear flag favourites by a point in a game we played well in (this is what is getting lost in the result - yes, we suck at close games and we still waste forward half territory, but we simultaneously neutralised Collingwood’s ball movement and generated enough supply of our own, to an extent maybe 1-2 other sides have done all year).

The idea that yesterday is the catalyst for needing a rebuild/major change is insane.

If anything, yesterday is confirmation that this side can play good enough football to challenge, but that rounds 1-5 have snookered any chance we have of making finals.

Sensitive nerve, much?

They're not my clear flag favourites - just sayin'

Enjoy your rant

2 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

You don't have to sell the whole list but a thorough review of where this team is going forward is much needed.

As I said before. Can we still carry JV, Clarry and Petracca in our midfield? Based on their inability to properly dispose of the ball. As much as they are contested football beasts.

i think the more pertinent q is can we carry jv, clarry, trac, sparrow, langford, fritsch, melksham in our best 23 going forward - i count 7 players for 3 roles

jv / sparrow should be in direct competition for the defensive small half-forward; sparrow got destroyed by jaicos yesterday

oliver / langford are big boys who aren't quick and, i know it goes against the grain, but i'm yet to be awed by langford's kicking or decision making; his impact on the game certainly doesn't compare with oliver's debut year as a comparison

petracca / fritsch simply don't work hard defensively, while melksham is all effort and cameo outputs in his dotage

41 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Can be - but is the truth a tad damning to realise?

2021 was amazing

Footy moves on

So suddenly people are having at go at Clarry's kicking? They didn't seem to mind his kicking when he was winning B&Fs and AAs and back to back coaches awards.

Clarry is a pure ball winner, and when he's on there is nobody better than him. 9 clearances yesterday and 30 touches.

The only reason we nearly won yesterday is because we smacked Collingwood in the contest. And Clarry was a big part of that.

To expect him to be an elite kick is like asking Chin to be an elite ruckman.

You can't move the goal posts to suit your agenda, because you want to be proven right that Clarry is past it. He is getting back to doing exactly what we want, need and know him to do best.

30 touches, game high 9 clearances, equal game high 7 tackles, 6 score involvements, and 23 pressure acts. An elite game by most inside mid standards, and a good game by Clarry's standards.

16 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

So suddenly people are having at go at Clarry's kicking? They didn't seem to mind his kicking when he was winning B&Fs and AAs and back to back coaches awards.

Clarry is a pure ball winner, and when he's on there is nobody better than him. 9 clearances yesterday and 30 touches.

The only reason we nearly won yesterday is because we smacked Collingwood in the contest. And Clarry was a big part of that.

To expect him to be an elite kick is like asking Chin to be an elite ruckman.

You can't move the goal posts to suit your agenda, because you want to be proven right that Clarry is past it. He is getting back to doing exactly what we want, need and know him to do best.

30 touches, game high 9 clearances, equal game high 7 tackles, 6 score involvements, and 23 pressure acts. An elite game by most inside mid standards, and a good game by Clarry's standards.

I think his kicking is mostly linked to fitness. He'll dump kick if he's exhausted. The fitter he gets, the better his ball use. Exhibit A 2021-2022.

2 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I think Clarry and Trac are getting back to their best.

I wanted to share some highlights that just popped up in my YouTube.

Spend 15 minutes of your time watching this and see how many times Clarry creates scores with his kicking. In a high pressure, big final.

I think he's getting back there.

For reference, Josh Daicos had the most touches on the ground yesterday with 34, 4 turnovers, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements (a lot of easy uncontested possessions behind the ball). Clarry had second most touches on the ground with 30, 4 turnovers, 1 goal assist and 6 score involvements. If Daicos was good yesterday, so was Clarry. And they were.

Daicos got caught holding the ball thinking that he's better than what he is, twice. Also his brother knows that little joshie thinks he is.

2 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I think Clarry and Trac are getting back to their best.

I wanted to share some highlights that just popped up in my YouTube.

Spend 15 minutes of your time watching this and see how many times Clarry creates scores with his kicking. In a high pressure, big final.

I think he's getting back there.

For reference, Josh Daicos had the most touches on the ground yesterday with 34, 4 turnovers, 1 goal assist, 7 score involvements (a lot of easy uncontested possessions behind the ball). Clarry had second most touches on the ground with 30, 4 turnovers, 1 goal assist and 6 score involvements. If Daicos was good yesterday, so was Clarry. And they were.

Interesting stats on Clarry. I think his blunders though are what is really holding him back - they are pretty bad. The commentary on FOX summasied it perfectly when he kicked it out on the full in the 4th. He is lacking confidence. It makes sense, its what is the difference between his current and old form. Sure fitness plays a part, but its his confidence. Clarry, 4xAA, 2xAFLCA, 4xBnF, is lacking confidence. If he can get that back, then watch out. But its a big-if. I hope for his sake and ours that he does, but im not sure.

I have noticed though his desperation and 1%ers are increasing in recent times. His trademark clearance game is ok, but its lack of polish that perhaps was always this average is becoming even more evident in the modern game. Players sit off him, our team doesn't kick to him either. That must be playing on his mind.

6 hours ago, BDA said:

Clarry showed great desperation. He extracted the ball on a number of occasions yesterday like the Clarry of old. He's definitely on the right track again

However, he is not and never will be a good user

Compare Trac to Pendles or Sidebottom. He's brilliant at getting his hands on the ball but panics way too easily for an elite footballer. and he's not a good user either

Pendlebury is an amazing player. time seems to stand still when he has the ball in his hands.

Completely agree.

Clarry was most damaging when he’d take a few burst steps before disposal.

I feel like he’s not far away but that last few percent are the hardest to find.

I see Trac as still being too timid.

27 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I think his kicking is mostly linked to fitness. He'll dump kick if he's exhausted. The fitter he gets, the better his ball use. Exhibit A 2021-2022.

The way he plays also means he is more likely to not hit targets. He's very often disposing of the ball in tight spaces.

Yes that last kick of his inside 50 was bad. He was trying to hit Fritta and he overcooked it. But he's hardly alone.

This season his DI is sitting at 70%.

Compare that to other elite inside mids: Tom Green 69%, Serong 66%, Taranto 68%, Cripps 64%, Neale 71%, Liberatore 72% (which is above average), Anderson 69% and Trac who is only at 66%.

It is a total myth that his ball use is bad for his role, in fact, he's better than nearly all those elite level inside mids.

Edit: his career average DI is actually 70.4%

Edited Tuesday at 06:474 days by Jaded No More

For what it’s worth I was told yesterday that Clarry is living at Trac’s place at the moment.

The DE rating includes handpasses

So Oliver & Petracca had 25 kicks between them yesyerday with only about 6 or 7 kicks hitting targets (assuming most of their handpasses hit targets) ... that's a DE rating of about 25%

But both are supposed to be elite footballers. They need to kick the ball better (to position) or in the case of Oliver, handpass the ball more as he's never been a great kick to position player

To be fair, all those long bombs forward come from a variety of players but you expect the senior players to set a good example

Edited Tuesday at 09:034 days by Macca

2 hours ago, No10 said:

Completely agree.

Clarry was most damaging when he’d take a few burst steps before disposal.

I feel like he’s not far away but that last few percent are the hardest to find.

I see Trac as still being too timid.

I think there is more frustration than timidity. To even use timidity in Trac's space is an insult and I would consider what he does every week.

Who he hits,pushes aside and beats one on one..

For all those criticising Clarrie and Trac on this thread: go and have a look at Jeff White's analysis on his thread, and see how well they are doing their job.

Also lol at calling Trac timid. You almost die playing footy, and then tell someone off for not wanting to do it all over again.

It’s frankly a miracle that he’s back to this level of intensity so soon after that horrible injury. Most players would never be the same.

And playing in a game where it happened, would have brought back a lot of trauma.

Sometimes I swear people think players are robots.

Those long bombs in 2021 worked a treat

We had an open forward line, lots of marking targets and we were able to hold the ball in our forward line with forward line defensive pressure

But then it all changed. The other teams worked us out by flooding our forward line (2022 onwards) and intercept marking came to the fore

Also, teams now are expert at defending the long bomb with rebound attack from even the last line of defence. Lots of handpassing and short kicks and hey presto, we're then trying to stop them scoring

So why are we even bombing the ball in at all? With the 4 or 5 seconds of hang-time with those bombs, a defender can run 25-45 metres to spoil or mark

Not withstanding those defenders anticipating where we are going to kick it to

Effectively, we are handing the ball back to the opposition and from that point, the other teams has possession and a chance to score (if they keep possession)

Edited Tuesday at 10:194 days by Macca

3 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

For what it’s worth I was told yesterday that Clarry is living at Trac’s place at the moment.

Tune in next week when Clarry makes his famous beans on toast

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13 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Tune in next week when Clarry makes his famous beans on toast

like and subscribe for more

Jamie Clarrie Oliver's 15 minute meals.

9 hours ago, Macca said:

More than just several occasions

Both hoof it forward on a constant basis with indiscriminate kicks that end up bearing very little reward

We're paying them both elite money for B grade output

Matchwinners? They are both a long way off and the other issue is that other players follow suit with the long bombs to the opposition

So both either can't adhere to team rules or they don't want to. Either way, they are both costing the team wins

It's not that they're not very good players, its about team balance. You wouldn't want to lose both of them but I don't think you can keep both moving forward either.

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It's not that they're not very good players, its about team balance. You wouldn't want to lose both of them but I don't think you can keep both moving forward either.

I'd rather see both kicking the ball well to position. And it's never too late to learn

They've both got elite skills elsewhere

Against Freo, Lions & Swans we didn't blaze away forward and Petracca & Oliver were both handpassing it more

But elite footballers being able to kick to position is a pre-requisite skill

We need to almost ban the long bomb as part of the game plan. I'd rather see us kick or handpass sideways or backwards from (55m - 70m) if an opening ahead doesn't present itself

However, we keep lapsing back into old habits which makes me think that we're still trying to hold on to parts of the old game plan. Territory gain is a bit instinctive in footy

Maybe the unlearning is more difficult than the learning

But 1 mark from 28 f50 entries in the first half sums it up ... that's where we lost the game

Edited Tuesday at 13:114 days by Macca

4 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

For what it’s worth I was told yesterday that Clarry is living at Trac’s place at the moment.

if this is true its probably why he is into all this recovery and yoga stuff lately that he is putting on his Instagram every day

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Also lol at calling Trac timid. You almost die playing footy, and then tell someone off for not wanting to do it all over again.

It’s frankly a miracle that he’s back to this level of intensity so soon after that horrible injury. Most players would never be the same.

And playing in a game where it happened, would have brought back a lot of trauma.

Sometimes I swear people think players are robots.

I’m not telling Trac off. That would be ludicrous. It was an observation that he’s still not fully confident.

I could’ve put in the positive rather than the negative, fair enough.

There’s just a huge challenge when two of the best ever MFC players are at peak age and not at peak output.

As good as Windsor, X, Langford etc might be… I’m not sure they’re Clarry and Trac level prodigious.