I assume clubs privately talk about serious and reasonably specific expectations for what their list is capable of in the coming season. And what they determine presumably informs all sorts of decisions - list management being at the top of the list.

First, am I wrong?

And if not, what do you think the honest consensus would have been inside the club in October?

I think we would be playing way below expectation.

5 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

I think we would be playing way below expectation.

Without doubt. I just wonder exactly what those expectations were.

I think the club would back itself to be returning to finals contention.

Most likely shellshocked that the players are struggling with the change of game plan.

I know I am

11 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think the club would back itself to be returning to finals contention.

I thought the same, which would explain what several others on the forum have raised concerns about: the relatively gentle approach to the list last year.

On the face of it, eight out and eight in seems like a good prune, but that includes Brayshaw from a year ago, two retirements, Joel Smith and a seemingly unexpected trade request from ANB.

Surely the expectations would have been finals? I know we had a shocker last year but we still won 11 matches and were getting Trac back, plus a fit Oliver and 2 high draft picks.

Top 4 was what they were saying in pre-season. They dont say those things publically unless they are confident.

What i think is they got served a reality check the last two rounds.

44 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think the club would back itself to be returning to finals contention.

Most likely shellshocked that the players are struggling with the change of game plan.

I know I am

While i expect a more spirited performance this week your view on the gameplan is off we don't have the midfield to do it and the games against the roos and the sun's showed that up big time Oliver and Viney and co just ran around chasing stops all day, I have been saying this since 2022 lack of pace and skills are hurting us big time.

We have been trying to work out a forward line for the last 4 years time to get someone in to help educate the players on forward craft.

6 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Top 4 was what they were saying in pre-season. They dont say those things publically unless they are confident.

What i think is they got served a reality check the last two rounds.

Who and where did they say this?

Delusional if true.

I’m pretty sure I heard Gawn say it in the lead up to the season. Something along the lines we know we have the talent on the list.

46 minutes ago, The Lobster Effect said:

Surely the expectations would have been finals? I know we had a shocker last year but we still won 11 matches and were getting Trac back, plus a fit Oliver and 2 high draft picks.

It's genuinely shocking that we're miles worse with Trac and Oliver back into the side. Every Melbourne supporter pinned their hopes on these two.

My expectation was 11th -14th due to our forward line on paper. So I'm not shocked we're going to miss finals. I am shocked about how bad we could potentially be this year, and how bad our talented players such as Gawn, JVR, Fritsch, May and Viney have been. If these players can lift to somewhere near their average, then we'll start winning a game or 2.

If you listen to Round 1 and 2 post pressers from Goody, they were about managing expectations.

The club knows that the transition game style took a number of rounds for Collingwood to click in 2022 and for Hawthorn to click last year.

I'm sure they were hoping we had Windsor, McVee and Lindsay available to us in those games Kozzy was missing, and were hoping we'd eek out 2 wins from the first three fixtures before Kozzy's return.

I'd say we're below par, but we'll know more by the middle of the year.

I'd say they'd want to be close to equal ledgering by that point.

Edited yesterday at 03:461 day by Adam The God

55 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Top 4 was what they were saying in pre-season. They dont say those things publically unless they are confident.

What i think is they got served a reality check the last two rounds.

Am sure Dockers, Blues and others were saying it as well.

You have to aim for a good result and if you don’t make it, so be it.

I wonder when the last club prediction was “we will finish last two.”

8 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

It's genuinely shocking that we're miles worse with Trac and Oliver back into the side. Every Melbourne supporter pinned their hopes on these two.

My expectation was 11th -14th due to our forward line on paper. So I'm not shocked we're going to miss finals. I am shocked about how bad we could potentially be this year, and how bad our talented players such as Gawn, JVR, Fritsch, May and Viney have been. If these players can lift to somewhere near their average, then we'll start winning a game or 2.

I don’t think the Players are mentally and physically fit enough to play the gameplan Goodwin wants.

Our Final Quarters have been uncompetitive

That is on the entire Football Department.

Such a shame we had to lose Burgess, i think that is a serious root cause to all this.

Selwyn needs to up his game…

I remember Goodwin saying he believed we have a team to challenge the very best. For me that means Top 8 to Top 4.

There would be alarm bells going.

2 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I remember Goodwin saying he believed we have a team to challenge the very best. For me that means Top 8 to Top 4.

There would be alarm bells going.

With Langford and Lindsay coming in, the Club is expecting September action

This is not the start they wanted

Goodwin must make changes

46 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I don’t think the Players are mentally and physically fit enough to play the gameplan Goodwin wants.

Our Final Quarters have been uncompetitive

That is on the entire Football Department.

Such a shame we had to lose Burgess, i think that is a serious root cause to all this.

Selwyn needs to up his game…

I agree, but for the life of me l can’t work out what the game plan is.

We chip it around in the backline trying to get some space but turn it over through the middle or still bomb it into the forward line

6 minutes ago, Billy said:

I agree, but for the life of me l can’t work out what the game plan is.

We chip it around in the backline trying to get some space but turn it over through the middle or still bomb it into the forward line

Because we are not spreading enough into space

Good teams can do it for 4 Quarters

Any news from the press conference

Maybe there aren't expectations this year. Maybe they just want to see what happens.

2 hours ago, Adam The God said:

If you listen to Round 1 and 2 post pressers from Goody, they were about managing expectations.

The club knows that the transition game style took a number of rounds for Collingwood to click in 2022 and for Hawthorn to click last year.

I'm sure they were hoping we had Windsor, McVee and Lindsay available to us in those games Kozzy was missing, and were hoping we'd eek out 2 wins from the first three fixtures before Kozzy's return.

I'd say we're below par, but we'll know more by the middle of the year.

I'd say they'd want to be close to equal ledgering by that point.

I think most of us were reasonably happy with rd 1. The effort was there.

Rd 2 and rd 3 saw an alarming drop off in basic skills - chest marks, tackling, kicking, handballing, two way running etc.

Our expectations are that we know how to do those basics already (except for goal kicking which is a shambles). Getting the ball turned over because we are trying to run and handball fwd or kick into the corridor etc is something we can live with short term.

What the club has dished up is sadly reminiscent of the dark days of 2012-2013

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think most of us were reasonably happy with rd 1. The effort was there.

Rd 2 and rd 3 saw an alarming drop off in basic skills - chest marks, tackling, kicking, handballing, two way running etc.

Our expectations are that we know how to do those basics already (except for goal kicking which is a shambles). Getting the ball turned over because we are trying to run and handball fwd or kick into the corridor etc is something we can live with short term.

What the club has dished up is sadly reminiscent of the dark days of 2012-2013

Completely agree mate.

It's why I was so disappointed with the Suns match, because aside from 15 minutes or so in the whole match, we didn't try to control the ball and maintain possession on slow plays, we went for long high kicks to the contest. I think Max took one contested mark in this sort of long down the line situation, otherwise I can't remember another one.

It annoyed me greatly, and I hope the coaches too, that we didn't try to maintain possession with short kicks to drag the opposition zone out, and keep them thinking. Instead we dropped simple marks, missed easy handballs and failed to hit 15m targets under almost no pressure.

The internal expectations would be that with Kozzy, Windsor, Lever and Spargo back in the side, we put up a much stronger showing against Geelong.

It may well get ugly on turnover on that funny shaped ground at GMHBA, but as long as we keep going for 'it', and don't go for the easy long down the line option every time, I'll be relatively happy.

And by 'it', I mean on fast plays, from turnover use the corridor, hit simple targets, run, carry and show dare of ball movement and from stoppage use aggressive forward handball, blocks and run in waves (see Round 1). And on slow plays, we chip to maintain possession, and chip the ball to shift the zone of the opposition and keep them guessing.

I also wonder whether we need to play Fritta from the goal square, JVR at CHF and Turner deeper with Fritta. Fritta is really the only forward who knows how to draw the ball on the lead. Our forward instruction appears to be hold back and not lead from slow plays, leaving space in front of you for the kicker to hit and you to lead into. With more confidence in the team, maybe this works. It worked much better against GWS, but we also looked to move the ball quicker.

Anyway, I'd hope the coaching staff are very disappointed with the way the team went away from what they're trying to do, and even more so, I hope some of the players (particularly our leaders) hang their heads in shame a bit. Because our stoppage, contest and defensive transition game was amateurish.

3 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I'm sure they were hoping we had Windsor, McVee and Lindsay available to us in those games Kozzy was missing

Also McAdam.